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07-27-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 26
Post ID: 4823
Reply to: 4819
Settling for less, for any number of reasons
Nice post, Jesse.

There are lots of things that work against the average goom-bah who is trying to aquire/build up a SOTA sound system, even if that is the primary goal of the psycho in question. Like you said, the frame of reference itself is always an issue, and there are also practical matters like time and money that work against anyone who suffers the usual constraints of job, family, mortgage, etc.

While it is likely that the largest portion of guys who want "a good sound system" couldn't acomplish the job with any amount of time and money, it is probably also true that there are any number of people who are just "comfortable" where they are at any given time, for any number of reasons.  In fact, I seem to remember that Romy has invoked the term "comfortable" as an epithet.

I have to say, my heart goes out to the guy who read along here looking for "answers" and who tries to obtain the same parts that Romy bought, thinking he will enter SonicValhalla upon acquiring the final piece of the puzzle.

The truth is that if most of the seekers at this site knew what they were really in for by "copying Romy", then they would be wise to give up now.

It has been said plenty here, but people just don't seem to get it:  Parts is parts.  You gotta have the goal in mind before you can get squat from the parts.

Best regards,
Paul S
07-28-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Markus
Posts 68
Joined on 03-07-2007

Post #: 27
Post ID: 4825
Reply to: 4823
Settling for less ...
... may be a good thing, perhaps? I'm currently thinking about just how good I want my system to be. Even my present speakers - Altec A7 - tell me quite a bit about the atrocities mny recording and mastering engineers like to inflict on the performance. Given that most of my listening is to non-classical music, and that non-classical music recordings seem to feature a lot of eq-ing and heavy compression, do I really want to hear all this starkly revealed?

I have a real fear of ending up with a system that chooses my music for me. Maybe a "benign" system might be better for me.
07-28-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 28
Post ID: 4826
Reply to: 4825
Old debate redux
Markus, you have hit on something that has been debated in hi-fi circles for several decades, namely the endless teeter-tottering between "accuracy" and "musicality".  Of course it is not lost on many that The Goal is necessarily "Both", but the truth is, staying in a sweet spot is harder than getting into one.  By "sweet spot", I mean that you are getting musical insight and aesthetic growth/satisfaction from your reproduced music, just as you would wish from your "real music", ie the goals for/from both "sources" are/should be "the same", as Romy has sagely observed.  While it may be that a high percentage of Morons are perfectly happy with their single drivers, 2-ways, etc., it is quite likely that there are any number of perpetually-frustrated OCD types who stay forever on the hunt for something from which they can get any sort of satisfaction, so that The Quest itself becomes the actual object of their endeavors.

It is so basic, but still well to remember and keep in mind, that all topologies have their problems, and making the best of any topology will certainly be a LOT of work.  But, just perhaps, the question becomes, how much work?  I said a while back that the the better my system sounds at its best, the worse it sounds when it's off kilter.  With a slight tweak of this observation, I can say/warn that the multi-horn speaker system is undoubtedly the most difficult and frustrating path a newby could take, not because of the ultimate possibility offered by this technically-best topology, but simply because getting it musically right in a very rote sense is such a world class PITA, which requires not only a great pair of ears but also enduring patience, along with almost limitless funds, to run through the almost endless permutations of the evolving system, each piece of which is co-dependent with all of the others.  While this inter-systemic co-dependence is typical of building any system, the physical scale and elaborate, expensive parts count of the mega horn system is more than just daunting; it is staggering.  I mean, how many mid-bass horns can the average guy afford to try, and how long would it take to get it just right?  Yet, if one is to succeed in rote terms, the answer has to be, as many as necessary.  Yes, personal eveolution eventually speeds up this process, but be ready for a near-vertical learning curve with a few twists and 180's along the way.

I suppose that most reading along here have experienced the old 1 step forward, 2 steps back quandry.  For me, the question becomes: can I get a net, whole-system improvement by making a given change, or am I better off where I am?  My own goals are heavily weighted to the enjoyment of music, which for me includes exploring music I either have not heard before or that I can hear and appreciate in new ways.  This is what fuels my own drive for "a better" system", which is itself very much tempered by the time and money constants.

One eventually learns to +/- "project" what a proposed change will accomplish; but of course there is certainly no certainty even with this "evolved" approach.  In the end, you still pays your money and you takes your chance.

Best regards,
Paul S
 
07-28-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 29
Post ID: 4828
Reply to: 4826
Many of people use no own brain in audio at all.

 Paul S wrote:
  The truth is that if most of the seekers at this site knew what they were really in for by "copying Romy", then they would be wise to give up now.

Well this is part of a bigger subject. I have a written and extended fairly insulting post sharing my feeling about some people who “imitate me”. The morons jump on my site, or stop in my home, found some pictures or look at a piece of junk sitting on my shelf, and if they see a total result acceptable for them then they buy this specific element, and they under a presumption that this element  will give them a hypothetical gain in performance. What actually is more ironic that those peoples then send me e-mails or call me asking me why the things doesn't work to them. It happened many-many times, and when I informed them that they were damn to be engage in this venture to begin with, because they wear just who stupid to understand what was going on the then they get aggravated. I wrote that long post, again, again and again explaining that the solutions might be replicateable only in context of replicateable objectives and understandings of the basic application, however before I posted my laptop crushed and I lost it, I hate to write it again.

Meanwhile the Morons ™ keep sending me e-mails with accusations. Fuck them! The irony however is that I never proposed to anyone to do any duplications of what I do. Well, I proposed to people to build Melquiades or at least start using the 6E5P, I do not see a lot of people to do it. So, why I received e-mails from idiots accusing me that they bought ADS 10 and it sounds horrible? Do they understand what it was used for and why it was mentioned at my site? Yes, unfortunately many-many-many of the people use no brain in audio at all….

Rgs, The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-29-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-16-2004

Post #: 30
Post ID: 4830
Reply to: 4828
That's because about 90% of people have no brain at all
And that's an optimistic estimation. I know well for my profession. It's possible that the 10% using their brains don't do audio, so within this activity the ratio would be even worse.

I've been an ignorant moron for audio matters many years. But fortunately I can use some brains, so now I'm just an ignorant, though sometimes I sin of moronity. It's difficult keeping a clear picture of what's feasible and which are attainable goals if you have space, time and budget limitations. But it's all in this site. The first step is just recognising what's wrong and learning how to make it better. Just that is "some time" of listening to your system and to your own awareness to music. I don't think one can build a system loaded of some objectives if you can't recognise what's needed to have the music showing its meaning.

Rgrds.
08-02-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 31
Post ID: 4872
Reply to: 4810
Weiss DAC1 vs. Larry Engineering DA-924

I always said that regular audio-freaks, who mostly unprovoked bend themselves in demonstration of the excessive and stupid devotion to audio manufactures, are the worst case. Ironically that “devotion” is not what the manufactures demand but the obsequious and almost sycophantic loyalty is all that lives in the empty heads of audio simpletons, the simpletons who, if they like something then they feel strong need to build a “Church of Admiration”….

I had a guy I knew Seattle who recently bought a Weiss DAC1 possessor in Europe. Since he did not need to right the way we decided to ship the unit to me and let me to listen it. It was very interesting as I have similar-class Larry DA-924 DAC and I do not have experience to have them bother running full 24/96. This Seattle  guy was very interested in the result (so did I), as well as number of other people who use ether Weiss or Larry and who were very exciting to learn about the results of the shoot out between those two high class pro DACs.

When the Weiss was shipped (***) my Seattle guy informed me that after I listening the DAC he does not what me to mention it on my site. The quote in the post above “I relay like Daniel Weiss and if you think the unit is unspeakable garbage I prefer you don't put that on your website” was actually his quote. This “arrangement” is kind of made me very uncomfortable. I do not particularly care if I post my audio finding on my site but I do not rally like when someone impose conditions for me dictating what I shell say or not say… in audio. Come on, get some freaking perspective: the guy bought used DAC on second hand market and he wants me to listen it, pass my observation to him but do not tell to anyone else. How stupid is it!!! If Daniel Weiss himself send me the DAC he would never asked me to shut up about my opinion about his DAC, but a little audio freak who bought the thing on second hand market feels that he what whatever reasons shell  “keep publicity vigilant”!

Sorry, it is not the game that play or willing to play. I informed the Seattle guy that until he remove any pre-conditions for me listening the DAC I will refuse listening it. The DAC is sitting in it’s box for a week in my home and I never even took it out of it box. I will be sending the DAC back to Seattle with a wish to the DAC’s owner to go fuck himself. The sad part is that in all this saga the Weiss DAC lost opportunity to demonstrate what it is capable of. The only subject that heart was Truth about the actual sonic performance of the audio component and it is very unfortunate that the Truth became a hostage of totally empty audio agenda and very stupid brownnosing fear.

Rgs, Romy the Cat

*** A correction from next day: I just checked and it turned out that some facts in my post were incorrect. I received a request do not say anything publicly about this unit prior the unit was shipped to me. It changes nothing but think it should be corrected.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-02-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 32
Post ID: 4874
Reply to: 4872
The need to vent.
Perhaps your man in Seattle is also aware of the worldwide audio moronity. Perhaps he realises that whichever of these two DAC's comes out worst in your little 'shoot out', its reputation and manufacturer may suffer as the morons whisper in an internet frenzy "the XYZXYZ DAC is no good, Romy said so"  Perhaps he doesn't wish to see that happen and realises both may actually have significant merits.  Maybe he's afraid for the resale value of the Weiss. Who knows? Satisfy your own curiosity if you are curious.  Compare them. You aren't obliged to broadcast the outcome. Thousands of other people make comparisons like this every week but manage not vent their feelings publically about what they find.  It isn't mandatory you know. 
08-02-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 4875
Reply to: 4874
You aren't obliged
I must agree with the guy.

Why should you force yourself never to know the truth about it?

clark
08-02-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 34
Post ID: 4876
Reply to: 4816
A Questionable Passion
"Most manufacturers simply do not have the references necessary to judge their own work."
 
Quite right! But then again, who does?

Reviewers?

Retailers?

Readers?

Mostly, audio is a crapshoot.

clark
08-02-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 35
Post ID: 4878
Reply to: 4874
Ah, my site has a therapeutic impact on me!

 guy sergeant wrote:
Thousands of other people make comparisons like this every week but manage not vent their feelings publicly about what they find. 

And it is exactly why there is no common sense in audio. Those “thousands comparisons” not only should be public but they should be instantaneously accessable and be able to be interpretable from multiple dimensions. I do not want to sound like I too much care or have an etching intention to make my findings about one or another component public but I do not want to be EXPLICITLY PROHIBITED by anyone to share my views on anything if I develop a wish to do so…

 guy sergeant wrote:
Compare them. You aren't obliged to broadcast the outcome.

However, in what you said, Guy, there is very rational point that I think I overlooked: I might be “prohibited to vent” it on my website (although I presume that Weiss will NOT be “unspeakable garbage” as I heard this unit before) however. I also have no obligations, or at this point interest, to share my views about Weiss DAC with…. my Seattle guy.

This actually opens for me an opportunity to look at the issue differently: since I pay those $160 for shipping then why do not I spend my time with the unit, get my reference about it sound, share it with a half dozen people who are interested about the Weiss vs. Lavry subject but do not share my observations about the Weiss sound with my that Seattle guy? I think it would be fear.

Hm, very nice, Guy. It is not the first time when I found my site acts so educational for myself…

Rgs, The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-02-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 36
Post ID: 4879
Reply to: 4878
Publish & be Damned
The other option is of course "Publish and be damned" the only downside being that people may be less reluctant to lend you things if they are concerned that they can't trust your confidentiality.

Romy! you're no better than the magazines you despise! What is the world coming to?
08-02-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 37
Post ID: 4881
Reply to: 4879
It's not a question that would make me to think

 guy sergeant wrote:
The other option is of course "Publish and be damned" the only downside being that people may be less reluctant to lend you things if they are concerned that they can't trust your confidentiality.

Romy! you're no better than the magazines you despise! What is the world coming to?
Guy, you are missing the whole point of this exercise. The point was: why we ever need secrecy, why we need “conditional confidentiality” and why an absolutely normal process of experience and evaluation of public products should be surrounded by stupid mental schemas and artificial conditions.

The subject of this thread was a call to open our minds, to come clean about our audio assessments, about our audio results and to let out ability to express what we feel to run free. I do not play games, I know those games, but I do not play them. And it is my wish.

BYW, I would like to accent that the Weiss DAC is publicly available unit and it should be no confidentiality of any kind regarding it. It is not an experimental project with unknown results. I was involved in number of experimental project, including with “big name’ companies and you never heard or will hear from me about them. Those projects ARE off the table for any public exposure. However, as a serials production, publicly available model … what is the problem there?

In the end Clark, said right about Truth. What we care more: about the health of César or about preservation of Roma? It is not a question that'll make me to think too long…

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-02-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 38
Post ID: 4885
Reply to: 4878
But, what a perfect thread for this secret-comparo discussion!
Just a minute, Romy...

So is the idea here that you compare two DACs and share only "positive" thoughts, all around?

And does everyone promise not to snap up and use your positive words to Fremerize the goods in question?

But who can read this site for even a few posts and think such editorial censorship would work for you, or not backfire for them, if they have such an agenda?!?

In fact I can remember only a very few of your posts that simply extolled a stock production item; but I think that in every such case the item praised was no longer offered for sale!

It seems that you normally "criticize" pretty roundly about everything, or at least temper praise by adding "further thoughts" or putting the thing into its flawed context.

I am aware that people visit this site but do not risk sticking their heads up for fear of getting plinked.

Fine, read along and enjoy.

But if you come here with a question, don't beg off the whole answer.

Best regards,
Paul S
08-03-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 39
Post ID: 4886
Reply to: 4885
The Romy 'Seal of Approval'
Romy. I understand the dilemma.  People sometimes lend things to me to listen to them. I like having the opportunity to hear these things and sometimes to broaden my understanding.  Publically available or not, I wouldn't express a view unless asked to. Its like the true cost of the loan but respecting such confidentiality is a price I'm happy to pay to satisfy my own curiosity. Fortunately, my opinion isn't really worth anything to anyone other than me.  Yours is, whether you like it or not.
08-03-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 40
Post ID: 4889
Reply to: 4886
You still think in term of stupid 'Seals of Approval'.

 guy sergeant wrote:
Romy. I understand the dilemma.  People sometimes lend things to me to listen to them. I like having the opportunity to hear these things and sometimes to broaden my understanding.  Publically available or not, I wouldn't express a view unless asked to. Its like the true cost of the loan but respecting such confidentiality is a price I'm happy to pay to satisfy my own curiosity. Fortunately, my opinion isn't really worth anything to anyone other than me.  Yours is, whether you like it or not.
You look at the things too narrow and still you look from a perspective of environment where audio critiques are delicacy instead of to be a regular meal.

No one cares about your or my expressed opinions if there is an open opinions pool. Only in the environment of closeness, “conspiracy” and confidentiality there are opinion makers and there are people who willing to put the, on a position to manage opinions. It was one of the subject against which I am aiming this thread.

It is a public unit and since Weiss is one of the leader of own class it should have public exposure. Mr. Weiss is a very normal person with perfectly healthy perception of the things. When he designed his unit he made many public inquires about desirable futures of his DAC and publicly explained what he was doing. It would be interesting to hear what he thinks about the performances of his DAC, in comparing to his competitors but the stupid industry removed microphone from the people who shell talk and stack it to the hands of reviewing imbeciles. I would like to hear what Lavry and others thinks about Weiss. I would like many Weiss user to express their views on Weiss as well. why not? In an environment of open, honest and no-fear sharing of perceptions it might be no stupid “opinion stars” but rather a healthy opinions competition, the competition for more reasoning, more rational and more evolved reference points. That is something that I would call an “environment of healthy public critiques” and it the way how it should be.

Everything else is just crap where the people in-compliance turn themselves inot crap. If you look at your colleges in industry, or at those who willing to behave like the are in the industry then you will know what I mean.

Rgs,
Romy the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-03-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 41
Post ID: 4892
Reply to: 4889
The open pool already exists
There are many different web fora devoted to audio, sound reproduction and music. People use them to exchange views about all kinds of subjects including specific items of equipment. Unfortunately they are populated by the 'barbarian dirt' who invariably lack 'serious intentions' when it comes to audio.

If you can pick your way past that, it is sometimes possible to learn something new or interesting but it also helps if you can be civil with the other participants.

Ultimately however they are still just opinions, as in the magazines (which you seem to read more assiduously than I do!) and therefore aren't really much help. Ultimately you have to form your own opinions which is why loaned equipment is sometimes helpful (with or without strings attached)
08-03-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 42
Post ID: 4894
Reply to: 4892
Unfortunately they are populated with whatever populates them.

 guy sergeant wrote:
There are many different web fora devoted to audio, sound reproduction and music. People use them to exchange views about all kinds of subjects including specific items of equipment. Unfortunately they are populated by the 'barbarian dirt' who invariably lack 'serious intentions' when it comes to audio.

It is not my experience. I know very little web sites that practice honest audio critiques with no strings attached. Evan among these few who do (did) practice open mildness some sites “turn south” eventually and some sited got overly populated with self-proclaimed audio-Shrink instead of audio experts. Very sad…

Rgs, the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-04-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 43
Post ID: 4905
Reply to: 4876
Church, Vegas & Invisible Sound
What happens when we say "Yeah man, that's what I said, the sound of your system sucks"?

What makes people so sensitive to criticism of their decisions regarding audio?

What makes audio different than other realms open to criticism?

Here are some thoughts :

It has to do with THE KNOWING that one has acted in a non-rational manner, which I guess with the exception of what goes on in church and in a Las Vegas casino is something our society just does not respect.

The guy who makes an “audio decision” had to make that decision based on what? More often than not, based on a not-so-solid base.

And why is it not-so-solid?

While most everything else we evaluate can be observed via more than one sense, in audio, the only thing to evaluate is sound, and one can only HEAR sound.

We are it would seem primarily a visually-oriented society... Ask most people what sense they would give up last, and most would say their sight.

And so it goes that only the blind make truly good use of their hearing. I don’t know why it is, but the rest of us would rather trust our eyes (I would be very interested in the work of blind audio manufacturers/reviewers).

So when an individual with more than a passing interest in audio makes a decision, and this could be either an audio consumer (purchasing), an audio manufacturer (design), or a reviewer (“declaration”), unless that person is blind, there is a very good chance that the decision was made based on what is basically an underdeveloped sense.

Combine this with the typically narrow base of references (see my previous posts in this thread) and you start to get the picture.

Here's a visually analogous scenario :

Imagine someone who absolutely wants the color pure orange, but at the same time is not quite sure he is capable of recognizing a truly pure orange, as he may have never seen it. People who can’t see color know of their deficiency, so naturally this person will consult others, possibly enlisting the help of an expert. Now imagine that nearly everyone is colorblind, but that there are some who, like fortune tellers claiming an ability to see the future, claim to be able to see color, and have turned the situation into a profession. These are the recognized experts.

Nobody is really sure these experts can in fact see color, but then they do seem quite sure of themselves, and that goes a very long way in reassuring the unsure.

And so the unsure audio decision maker eventually takes what is basically a leap of faith.

I will ignore the whole obsessive-compulsive/desperation aspect, a mark born by almost all with "an interest" in audio, and one which really catalyzes the whole sequence.

This leap usually represents a substantial investment. For consumers it is simply hard-earned cash; for component designers it means time, and finally the commitment to a design. For reviewers it's thier reputation that's at stake.

In cases of individuals having inadequate references it involves sweat. Reading of the tea leaves, chicken entrails, what have you... shoring up a certain uncertainty... Finally the investment/decision/declaration is made.

These people are not complete morons (not completely)... They are well aware that their investment was ill-informed but the decision "needed" to be made, so it gets made based on varying degrees of heebeejeebee.

Getting to this point involved a fair amount of navigation of the less than obvious. So, when somebody comes along and says, “dude, that sucks”, it is not so much the equipment that is under attack; the remark is likely processed as a direct attack on that person’s ability act rationally. I suppose we are in effect calling them a moron...

This situation exists because sound reproduction via audio playback does not permit an exact replica of sonic reality... We have to, and are willing to accept a reinterpretation... If people could hear a system that faithfully reproduced the original source, I suspect they would recognize it, and the fog would instantly lift. Even with our underdeveloped sense of hearing, it is easy to recognize sameness in sound, just as it is easy to recognize technical competence of an illustrator “my god, it looks so real”... On the other hand, what’s the point?... We have cameras for that... I’m not real sure, but what might be more interesting (once the possibility to faithfully reproduce sonic reality has been acquired) would be the intelligent reinterpretation of that reality; the subtle “pushing out” and “holding back” of certain elements, as might be done by a good illustrator or photographer...

Bottom line :
The audio guy is super sensitive to criticism ONLY WHEN HE KNOWS HE AHS ACTED IRRATIONALLY. Again, I can think of only two places where our society really respects irrational behavior : Church and Las Vegas...

Ever wonder why the Consumer Electronics Show happens in Las Vegas...

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
08-04-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 44
Post ID: 4916
Reply to: 4905
The absolutely wonderful summary!

 jessie.dazzle wrote:
What makes audio different than other realms open to criticism?

Here are some thoughts ....
What is the wonderful summation of the main plot of this thread!

The audio people are super sensitive to criticism only when they subconsciously knows that they have no real sanity or real thoughts behind their audio efforts. A person who has sense identity of his actions when he hears a criticism do not feel offended, as he tries to correlate his objectives and has thoughts process with the thoughts process of the criticism. A moron, who does audio with no sense of actions do not recognizes a rational behind criticism but rather recognizes critical comments as general offense.

What is so simple and so ingenious conclusion! I am very pissed by the fact that I did not come up with it conclusion myself before. That is perfectly correlates with many “critique accidents” in which I was involved when the people offended by my critiques were so primitive (or so scared) in their audio views that they did not even understood the arguments that I was able to bring up, backing up my critiques.

An excellent observation, Jessie!
Rgs, the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-15-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 45
Post ID: 11965
Reply to: 2546
The Meow #205252
fiogf49gjkf0d

Again, about the stupidity of non-critical perception.

I have seen in audio all over – people visit each other, listen each other playbacks, in response to the hospitality of the owners they pass numerous compliments about the sound of given installation regardless the quality of sound they heard. What kind purpose this experience serves? Dose it enrich or benefit any of the parties? Two weeks ago I visited a local New England audio person and he told me the he have expressed some critical comments about somebody in past and people never invited him again. A few years back I was visiting another local New England audio person, who fancy himself an amplifier designer, and who in response to my critical comment about his sound literary kicked me out of his house. In both cased I wonder was it worthy to stay in that home or return back to those people? Are we in audio so much care about our made-up cheap publicity and stupid fraudulent egos?

I do not know how you but I very much willing and always do milk my visitors with critical comments about my sound, furthermore I do have tendency do not invite for a second time people who were not able to pass any criticism.  Visiting each other audio installations is nothing more than educational experience and to waste it for idiotic divertissements of pretentious congeniality is truly damn thing to do.

A case to point. The last night a visited a local audio guy who has a nice playback installation in his living room.  With the very first bars he played it was very clear that the playback sounded beyond horrible – it was a nightmare. Being me I informed me that it was horrible and very much not worthy nether to build a payback with this resulting sound nor continue to listening.  The owner of the system agreed with my assessment and then he did what very few and only if they are very smart people do – he proposed to find a bug that screw up the sound. After a couple hours we did found an element the was responsible for very bad sound and dealing with it we were able to make his playback to sound remarkably good, I mean really-really pleasant.

My question is – would it be any better if listening the initial crapy sound we did not go into criticism and did not made the right correction the were truly revolutionary in trim of results? Would any of three of us: him, I and his Sound be befitted if the guy in response to my criticism would show me the door as a few idiots did previously?  Well, the idiots who did had a great accomplishment – they continue to live in ignorance with the sound that worth their unhealthy self-image.  Good for them.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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