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07-03-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 26
Post ID: 27159
Reply to: 27158
I have a super attic
Anthony, it is a bit complicated subject. If you ever visit me and look at my attic you will be literally laughing. It is always initially designed with an idea to load there all possible outer installations. Pretend a good size listening room of 19x45 and nice considered selling with plywood prepared for roofing. Thenn pretend that somebody build build above of this another house above it at it is my attic. Tall, dry beautiful this thousand access points to my main listening room. I put their open bottle and I can put them probably another six horns if I want to. When I came to this house first time with my realtor and saw this attic I said that I do not believe what I'm saying. 

I might very much will go for midday horn, at least I have easy ways to do it. Do I need to go for it is completely different subject and I cannot answer it for this point. The room sound exceptionally interesting without any effort. If you read my old post about micropositioning of upper base horns where I recommended to install upper base horns on active locations of the room then my room has it naturally. It's kind of ridiculous if you work around the house, and it is very much open plan floor, then you hear no bass. However exactly it listening spot I have very good organic natural boost across quite many octaves in upper base and lower midrange. I can literally hear how drivers are breathing, it is very interesting effect. I did not measure anything but overall feeling is very good and I absolutely adore how my Vitavox 15 are running in large bin of direct radiator. So far, purely subjectively I do not see a need for a midbass horn and I do not believe in lower base horns. 

I need to live with this room for a little bit, I need to calibrate playback and to run some sleep to see what actually the room is doing. I do not have a lot of time and this point but I'm progressing slowly. It would be wonderful if I conclude that I do not need a midbass horn.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-04-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ArmAlex
Iran
Posts 106
Joined on 02-15-2009
Post #: 27
Post ID: 27160
Reply to: 27157
Time alingment
Hi Romy, In this picture it looks that attic opening's distance to listening position is very close to distance of chair to the main speakers. Time alignment?
?
07-04-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 28
Post ID: 27161
Reply to: 27160
I have my reasons.
 ArmAlex wrote:
Hi Romy, In this picture it looks that attic opening's distance to listening position is very close to distance of chair to the main speakers. Time alignment?
ArmAlex, very good question. The position of the exit of the open baffle was well considered and chosen deliberately. The first thing first, that picture above is a bit misleading. It is a wide-angle lens, and it makes the distance between the listening spot and main loudspeakers too large. In reality the exit from infinite-baffle is just slightly smaller.  
 
The infinite-baffle exit is not position at the location absolute time alignment because I would like to reserve this position for the exit of the midbass horn if I chose to build is in future. The infinite-baffle is crossed at 20Hz with wavelength 63 feet.  A few feet here or there will make significantly less difference than it would be a let's say crossover point of 60 Hertz of mid base horn. Also, and it is the most important argument the exit of the infinite baffle is made and the architectural corner of ceiling. It is not the end of the room, in fact it is in the middle of the room, but it has two ceilings, and I placed the baffle in the end of just one ceiling.  Consistently that is location when I had a maximum low frequency gain in a room from listening position, i did measure it. So, from one side I have time alignment which is at 20 cycles less critical and from other side I have a good 10 decibel gain from low frequency, that certainly made amplifiers to create less voltage and drivers’ diaphragm have less excursion. What would you choose? Here is a tip, something that I did. If you measure gate and loss of the signal for time alignment at 20 cycles, then a few feet would have absolutely no dent on the amplitude of your response. So, 10 decibels of gain that I got from room in my view overweight everything. If you want to experiment with this, you can do what I did and use my magical device. I use the magical Sunfire True Junior Subwoofer. It is super compact sub that can go very low and very manageable. I hooked it to all imaginable places of my rooms to see how room response to the different LF source’s locations. I use strictly empirical methods to do my predictions. Under no circumstances any human being should pay attention to the Sunfire sub sound, it is atrocious. However, as an acoustic pressure generating machine it is very comfortable tool at least to me.
The infinite-baffle in red the prospective mouth of the bass horn in blue

 Macondo3.0_AtticFull.jpg

Macondo3.0_full_room.jpg


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-06-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ArmAlex
Iran
Posts 106
Joined on 02-15-2009
Post #: 29
Post ID: 27162
Reply to: 27161
Attic or puzzle!
What a complex attic structure!!! I had to look above 2 pics several times to able to visualize what is what. Regarding about playing with a subwoofer to find a good place for bass, I did some kind of such experience before but couldn't get tangible result. Maybe I wasn't patient enough. Now I use Bob's technique to place my speakers.
07-10-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 30
Post ID: 27165
Reply to: 27128
A long and boarding video


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-10-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 335
Joined on 08-18-2014
Post #: 31
Post ID: 27166
Reply to: 27165
Cleaning my horns
Just turned on the TV to put on some YouTube while preparing to belatedly give Macondo a cleanup and right there was your new video...lost 45mins of cleaning time though, and those Bass Cannons take a lot of cleaning!

Turns out the Red 10" pair I purchased from fleabay years ago that were sold as "original" but in fact were re-coned (and not with Tannoy cones) are actually useful now.  Got a partial refund for that dodgy transaction and ended up only paying for the tweeters...lucky it was too expensive to have them sent back overseas or they would not be here.  Romy, once you nail down the specs for the Red tweeter I will happily give it a go, but am dubious about the VFET amps and would much rather a Melquiades solution.  I'm thinking perhaps another DHT channel assuming existing two stage or single stage Melq channels are not enough.

Now, back to cleaning...
07-10-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 32
Post ID: 27167
Reply to: 27165
Polishing Diamonds

Happy Birthday and Congratulations, Romy! Nice to hear you took the “me time” and you’re getting the results you’ve been after for so long. When you talked about Bruckner’s long expositions and the “almost” feeling you get, I may not know exactly what you mean, but I could use similar words to describe my own sense of it, not so long ago.  You fingered the Vitavox, and that frequency range, and I think you might be on to something. Of course you did not put a “horn Vitavox” in a box, right? Might be that Bruckner’s “sneaky volume” has caught you off guard. Is it possible that the Vitavox in boxes are not quite keeping up with your 110 dB horns? It seems to me that these “crescendos” require power “beyond SPL”, but they also require “perfect resolution” to be “adequately expressed”, at least this is so for me, at this point, anyway. That big, open room will eat a LOT of system power… I hesitate to suggest solutions, such as doubling the Vitavox, because, of course, every “solution” introduces new problems. If the issue goes up into the big horn, there’s that, too, at least the tie-in.>>


Best regards,

Paul S

07-10-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 33
Post ID: 27168
Reply to: 27166
I do not know.
 anthony wrote:
Turns out the Red 10" pair I purchased from fleabay years ago that were sold as "original" but in fact were re-coned (and not with Tannoy cones) are actually useful now.  Got a partial refund for that dodgy transaction and ended up only paying for the tweeters...lucky it was too expensive to have them sent back overseas or they would not be here.  Romy, once you nail down the specs for the Red tweeter I will happily give it a go, but am dubious about the VFET amps and would much rather a Melquiades solution.  I'm thinking perhaps another DHT channel assuming existing two stage or single stage Melq channels are not enough.

Anthony, it sounds like you are a perfect candidate to do what I never had guts to: to take a grinder and curve out of the Red basket the HF driver. I am afraid I will not be able to tell you how much in what I get here come from B3 amp and now much came from the Red tweeter. I would not drive the Red tweeter with a weak amp. The full range Milq does very bad job, bot even mention the Melquiades DHT part.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-10-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 114
Joined on 03-15-2010
Post #: 34
Post ID: 27169
Reply to: 27165
Today's visit
Was invited over to Romy's today. Spent two hours going through recordings. 

First, I hear differently from him. At my age,76, I had a hearing test that showed oversensitivity in the 1000 to 6000 hZ range, and quick drop off above 10,000 Hz.

Second, I have a problem with my right ear that's a weird distortion in the high frequencies that almost sound like overload, possibly due to the high sensitivity in that range. Thus I did hear that distortion in the right channel due to my hearing. Also the high end was a little hot for me in the beginning.

But I must say that everything he described in his video is there in spades. The soundstage extends about three to four feet to the sides of the speakers, but somewhat lacks in depth. Turns out that it is probably due to the speakers being close to a smooth stone false fireplace and piano directly behind the speakers. When we added some 6 inch thick foam absorbers between the speakers blocking the bounce off from the rear wall, ther was significant improvement in depth of the image. The deep bass is subterranean and the mid and upper bass is great. A bass drum and tympani actually sounded like one and a baritone was superb.

The Dannoy does add a significant melodiousness to the upper end. The midrange is to die for.He has only one of the planned infrasonic subs in the attic and yet one could hear with clarity a deep hum of what was probably an air conditioner or heater blower in one of the recordings. I had to leave before completing my listening, but hope to return with any further improvements. All in all, it is a significant leap forward for his system.

Cudos!Bill
07-11-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 35
Post ID: 27170
Reply to: 27169
To be continued with depth
Bill, It is fun is that you mention low frequency ham. As I shut down system last night I was quite disturbed from this because nothing was running. It's turned out that a big ceiling fan above listening chair was destroyed by my kids, probably shooting balls to it. One van another it is not spinning, and then it was on it it was a source of humming.

It was very interesting feeling I have during Bill's visit. He quite accurately notice a certain lack of depth in my playback presentation and give me a bunch of reasonable recommendations how to improve it. Even I admit that he is correct I'm not quite sure that I'm willing to do it due to my desire to keep room comfortable for living, not only for audio. I have however some ideas how to accomplish without destroying room decor and I have some tricks in my sleeve. To be continued...

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-12-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 335
Joined on 08-18-2014
Post #: 36
Post ID: 27172
Reply to: 27168
Shake the Pepper Pot
Looks like the Red 10's are circa 92dB/w/m as an entire "speaker" including woofer.  I've never played with them before, but I wonder how much, if any, SPL is scrubbed from the tweeter by the crossover so that it matches the woofer.  Romy, from what I can tell you are using the Pepper Pot via the standard Tannoy crossover, and if so then I can perhaps understand why Melquiades does not like them ay 92dB sensitivity.  If the crossover is attenuating the tweeter then perhaps the Melq will perform better without the default crossover in play.  Of course I can figure this out myself by diving into my attic to haul down my pair but this may be something you have already investigated...not sure.

The B3 amp is nothing special based on specifications, and indeed has a high output impedance for a SS amp that is quite similar to a fullrange Melquiades channel, not that damping factor should really matter for a tweeter.  I've been unable to find gain of the B3 amplifiers.  Perhaps the B3/Pepper Pot just works because of the 70w of power matched with a 92dB/w/m sensitivity speaker, but it is only capable of 6dB more output than fullrange Melq assuming gain is similar.  Melq will drive the tweeter via the crossover to perhaps 104dB at 16w (say 101dB at chair) whereas the B3 will drive to 110dB at 64w (say 107dB at chair).

That and B3 full output is as 1Vrms whereas Melq is cira 4Vrms.

Romy, have you tried the Red tweeter without the standard crossover and does sensitivity improve?  Sounds to me like the problem with Melq...just working too hard to get any volume.
07-12-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 37
Post ID: 27175
Reply to: 27172
You are very correct.
 anthony wrote:
Looks like the Red 10's are circa 92dB/w/m as an entire "speaker" including woofer.  I've never played with them before, but I wonder how much, if any, SPL is scrubbed from the tweeter by the crossover so that it matches the woofer.  Romy, from what I can tell you are using the Pepper Pot via the standard Tannoy crossover, and if so then I can perhaps understand why Melquiades does not like them ay 92dB sensitivity.  If the crossover is attenuating the tweeter then perhaps the Melq will perform better without the default crossover in play.  Of course I can figure this out myself by diving into my attic to haul down my pair but this may be something you have already investigated...not sure.

The B3 amp is nothing special based on specifications, and indeed has a high output impedance for a SS amp that is quite similar to a fullrange Melquiades channel, not that damping factor should really matter for a tweeter.  I've been unable to find gain of the B3 amplifiers.  Perhaps the B3/Pepper Pot just works because of the 70w of power matched with a 92dB/w/m sensitivity speaker, but it is only capable of 6dB more output than fullrange Melq assuming gain is similar.  Melq will drive the tweeter via the crossover to perhaps 104dB at 16w (say 101dB at chair) whereas the B3 will drive to 110dB at 64w (say 107dB at chair).

That and B3 full output is as 1Vrms whereas Melq is cira 4Vrms.

Romy, have you tried the Red tweeter without the standard crossover and does sensitivity improve?  Sounds to me like the problem with Melq...just working too hard to get any volume.

Anthony, you are absolutely correct asking those questions. They are exactly the same questions I've been asking myself, but I did not have YET time to do all those experiments to aals it to myself sensibly. I have multiple crossover options for Red Twitter and it is possible that if Melquiades drives the Red Twitter directly then it will be able to handle it. I did not have time to play with any options and I drive the Red Twitter only by B3 not by chose but by methodological protection (read below). The original Tannoy crossover has no attenuation of signal for Twitter, but it has a transformer that for sure matches the tweeter’s sensitivity to the woofer.  I care less about the sensitivity per say but rather the following factor.
 
The Red driver, including the Tweeter has a tenancy to “thissinessss”.  It is stunningly pleasurable coloration, amazingly pleasurable but it is still a coloration and I cannot not to acknowledge that if this character of sound presented in all music then it's become a bit annoying. This thissinessss is very interesting and it not sitting at very top but somewhere around 8-9K. With all gorgeousness of the sound that I have now I still acknowledge that a very minor thissinessss is still here. That is why I will continue to work with crossover trying to get rid of this. Here is the kicker in all the story: I had absolutely no thissinessss 2 years ago what I was running my Dannoy from S3 with a default crossover. So, I keep the S3 amps for now as reference in order to keep a common denominator between now and the time when I had absolutely clear sound.  If I have absolutely clear sound from my current configuration, only then I will experiment with alternative application. Trust me, I would love Melquiades to be able to drive the Red Tweeter and I have two channels on Melquiades that are idling for now.
 
I think something in the Dannoy configuration 2 years back (passively loaded Red driver) created some kind of resonance at lower range which was able damp the Red’s Tweeter resonance at 8-9K. It is very delicate, and I have no grip on it yet. I need to do more experiments and I would like to address one problem at a time to keep myself from making wrong conclusions.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-12-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 38
Post ID: 27176
Reply to: 27175
For Anthony
By the way, Anthony here is a lead for you. I do not know what kind Melquiades you build and how you changed specification for your amp but if you have the one identical to mine then you had a provision for injection channels which is full range Melquiades with amorphous transformer 1627A in “B” configuration.  If the Red driver has 92 DB sensitivity via default crossover and considering gain of Milq in “B” configuration vs the gains of the Milq’s MF channels via 4V DHT the Red Tweeter should be somewhere near -3 at 1K if the Milq not attenuated.  That is very much you most likely would like to be. So, if you take your full range Milq and drive Rad Tweeter with default crossover then then you will have enough gain. I do not know what sound you have but I would predict that it might be energetic enough. You still will have a LOT of tools at your disposal to play with: Milq’s configuration, 1627A remapping, run your own crossover and many other options.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-12-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 335
Joined on 08-18-2014
Post #: 39
Post ID: 27177
Reply to: 27176
Understood
Yes, my DSET is fundamentally the same as yours with 6 channels, three fullrange, 1627a for Channel C.  The largest difference is probably that my DHT channel has its own B+.

My preamp is quite different though, being a hybrid based on 10y.  It has a a second output independently driven by a SS buffer that is there just in case an amplifier in addition to the DSET is required or something similar.  

I would be guessing as to how my sound may be different to yours.  Right now I am still sorting out my room and the bass issues it has, but that effort is almost complete (at least the room treatment is almost complete).  My room is used differently to yours in that it is primarily my office, not a living room, and is soundproofed with all the associated amplification of bass and other issues that brings.  Recently, I've been contemplating starting a thread here about Macondo/DSET integration into this room just because it is so different to your situation. 
07-12-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 40
Post ID: 27178
Reply to: 27177
Solved another problem
If you have unused full range Milq channel then it is very easy for you to test Red Twitter. Use default crossover, just open the connector to the driver and cut off the red wire that leads to base driver. Connect it out of face S2 driver and time aligned at 7k. Set on the tanoy crossover maximum high frequency output and you should be all set. You do not need any box for speaker just a bottle to align the driver and mount it to the frame. I did today the same, it certainly different sound than B3, not necessary better or worse, I need to think more about the sound. It is possible that I would go with phase constant second order of let's say 5-8 kilo cycles on red Twitter. It is incredibly musical twetyer, I just would like to take everything out of it. By the way, your post was inspiration for me to experiment today. 


I also had today at huge success to addressing my mid base collapse that I described before. I went from second order to first order low pass on my mid base 15-in woofers and it made all different. For whatever reason my upper base horns do not load room properly. The amplitude is there an RTA is flat what's that emotional pressure was very not linear and was dropping. I introduced a longer the king tail of 15inch Vitavox driver overlaing with my upper bads horn. It worked magically and I truly have absolutely wonderful Midbass now. Also things are like puzzles, if topology is right you just need to pull right string...

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-13-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 335
Joined on 08-18-2014
Post #: 41
Post ID: 27179
Reply to: 27178
Inspiration
Righto then, I guess there is no reason not to try this, except that one of the original crossovers here is non-functioning (if I remember correctly), so if trialling in stereo I'll have to crossover in Melquiades.  Should have the parts here to do that.

Have just spent quite a few hours back in the DSETs dotting the i's and crossing the t's with a few things, replacing the heater wiring, new super high quality DHT tube sockets, changing out crossover caps for my preferred variants (did the Upperbass coupling caps a few months ago from 950B to Duelund copper cast and the change was lovely, so more in that vein), changing out the pots in the DHT humbuckers to be rid of the last of that low level noise, modified the bias arrangement a little so that the DC Offset could be fully cancelled again (filter changes meant I could no longer set DC offset to zero) and a few other things.  

With the new filters I first plan to reset my time alignment properly and comprehensively as well as the channel SPL's.  I've figured out where I want to sit in the soundstage and the seating position is now locked down so it is the right time to do this precision tuning before playing with the Red tweeter.
07-14-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 114
Joined on 03-15-2010
Post #: 42
Post ID: 27180
Reply to: 27155
Today's visit
Was invited over to Romy's today for a listen. In the last two days, he made several small but critical changes in the time alignment, crossovers, and room damping, and the sum of them has brought his system up by several notches producing the best and most natural music I’ve ever heard from a system. I will let him go over the particulars. From my perspective, he added has improved the minor problems heard on the last visit, with significant improvement of depth of field, removed the high frequency tizzies, and made the sound field razor sharp.

In Addition the bass is the closest I’ve heard to a concert hall without looseness or bloatiness. I can't believe he get the bass quality from tube amps.All in all a significant improvement. I wish all of you could visit him to hear what he has accomplished.On another bright note, he let me borrow a pair of his Vitavox drivers and horns to replace my tad midrange drivers, and I am in heaven. He is right, they are significantly better than the TAD drivers in conveying the beauty of the music.Bill
07-14-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 43
Post ID: 27181
Reply to: 27180
Some tutorials


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-15-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 335
Joined on 08-18-2014
Post #: 44
Post ID: 27182
Reply to: 27181
High Pass
Romy, I'll be digging round in my amps tomorrow and intend to install a filter for the red tweeter while there.  What should I be aiming for?  7kHz first order from memory, but hoping you can confirm.  Such a filter could be achieved just by changing the coupling cap (eg. 0.00022uF for 7.2kHz), but I won't get that drastic just yet.

Great to hear that your sound continues to improve. 
07-15-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 114
Joined on 03-15-2010
Post #: 45
Post ID: 27183
Reply to: 27180
Yesterday
Feeling less depressed this am. After returning from Romy's and coming down from the high produced by his sound, I made the mistake of turning on my system, which had sounded great the night before. Within less than a half hour I turned it off and went to bed. Compared to his, it sounded like a 60's solid state portable. After 76 years, 55 of which have been spent as audiophile and 14 years of reviewing for a high end audio webzine evaluating mega bucks equipment and systems at shows and homes, I am convinced that I have never heard anything close to what I did yesterday. If I were 20 years younger and not ready for an old fogies home in a couple of years, I¡d trash my system and build one matching his components, money be damned. If you get a chance, visit him and listen but be warned. There's no going back. It was the closest to a live performance in symphony hall or the Staatsverein I’ve ever heard. Of course part of this is due to his using surround techniques, which he calls delay but is really what I ( and he now) call HALL EFFECT REPRODUCTION, which attempts to reproduce what we actually hear in a concert hall, with it frequency changes, delays, and reverb decay. That makes up from 20 to 60 plus percent of what we hear in a concert hall depending on our seating.
07-15-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 46
Post ID: 27184
Reply to: 27183
The Nature and "Quality" of Main Channels and Delay
Bill, sorry to hear a low followed the high, and I know what you mean about getting old, but you did not mention in this post that you use DSP to improve the "overall" sound quality and to produce specific room effects, but Romy  - as far as I know - only uses delay for limited/targeted injected "sound effects", where, according to him, the "sound quality" of the injected sound is not especially important. This seems to be no small matter, since Romy gets his sound quality from his stereo arrangement of specific drivers powered by driver-specific amps, which is to say, amps that produce specific sound qualities from his specific drivers. Could it be that you heard the difference between two fairly different approaches to root/rote sound quality?

Best regards,
Paul S
07-15-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 47
Post ID: 27185
Reply to: 27182
The Red's Tweeter
 anthony wrote:
Romy, I'll be digging round in my amps tomorrow and intend to install a filter for the red tweeter while there.  What should I be aiming for?  7kHz first order from memory, but hoping you can confirm.  Such a filter could be achieved just by changing the coupling cap (eg. 0.00022uF for 7.2kHz), but I won't get that drastic just yet.

Great to hear that your sound continues to improve. 
 
I probably will be doing this weekend the same experiment. It is hard to say what crossover point to use. The default crossover has somewhere sub 2K and I used the max gain for the tweeter, where the sound floes over the cap Not good and there is a lot of expected improvements in there. I do not know the Red tweeter impedance but if to presume it is 8R then I will start with 7kHz Bessel curve, it will be 1.63uf cap and 0.31mH coil to ground. I will not go for anything electric as it is works I would like to build the filter at the basis of the Milq’s driver tube

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-15-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 48
Post ID: 27186
Reply to: 27183
Dannoys?
Bill, how about your Dannoys? Some time ago you wanted to dismantle your horns in favor of Dannoys or it was more of a figure of speech Wink?
I keep loving mine and think they are the best choice for a small space I have.



Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
07-15-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 49
Post ID: 27187
Reply to: 27186
Do not salt my wounds....

 N-set wrote:
Bill, how about your Dannoys? Some time ago you wanted to dismantle your horns in favor of Dannoys or it was more of a figure of speech ?
I keep loving mine and think they are the best choice for a small space I have.

N-set, two years ago I did exactly that, I dismissed my horns in favor of Dannoys. It was extremely worse to do as a result Dannoys produced was stunning. During those two weeks in August 2020. The problem is that neither bill or me were able to replicate this setting. I am not kidding this all marvelous result I feel I would give it up it again I were able to get my August 2020 sound from Dannoys. We did discuss it with Bill yesterday.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-15-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 50
Post ID: 27188
Reply to: 27185
Red’s tweeters
Ok, did today the Red’s tweeters. Got rid of the original Tannoy’s cable mounting plate and ran my own cable directly from twitter.  Drove it with Milq’s full range channel. Used the speaker level 2uf cap (my favorite high voltage eQube coupling cup and I am not sure how it holds at speaker level) with 0.33 air coils that I happens to have in my hands. It made near Bessel ~6K crossover. A bit too low but it gives the idea unit I find my box with my coils. I took off the Vitavox S2 midrange and wanted to listen for a while to the whole sound with Red’s tweeters. Yes, I have no MF but so what… The first feeling is that Red’s tweeters. Is VERY elegant in this configuration. I am sure the cap will take time to break in. The good thing is about the volume, it looks like I will be running it about munis 8-12dB from the Milq’s full gain which opens an opportunity even to ideal the Milq’s loading much more if I need it. I will take my older son tomorrow to my secretive place to by good vintage coils, the MIT flea market. I will pick a bunch of the coils

 to play with…Macondo3.0_TannotTweeterCrossover.jpg

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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