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07-31-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
maxx
Posts 9
Joined on 04-23-2015
Post #: 1
Post ID: 21822
Reply to: 21822
4-way horn system Prelude
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi all!

I am also big horn fan from Latvia.
This is my first horn project Prelude.
1" high frequency driver
Crossover 4000HZ
2" midrange driver
crossover 500Hz
15" midbass
crossover 100Hz
15" Tapped horn (is not yet complete)


Unfortunately midbass is resonant (180-300Hz) and not comfortable to listen without equalizer.
All system is active crossed.


DSCF1306.JPG
07-31-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Gargoyle
Posts 69
Joined on 02-01-2015
Post #: 2
Post ID: 21824
Reply to: 21822
Cool
fiogf49gjkf0d
Nice setup.

Can you describe the active setup you are using?
08-01-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
maxx
Posts 9
Joined on 04-23-2015
Post #: 3
Post ID: 21826
Reply to: 21824
Crossing
fiogf49gjkf0d
I have improved Minidsp 4x8.
A class Solid state amp (HF)
Single ended tube amp (mf)
push pull tube amp (MB)
Crown macrotech (bass)

All amps build by AL Electronics, specially designed for me.
08-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
maxx
Posts 9
Joined on 04-23-2015
Post #: 4
Post ID: 21827
Reply to: 21826
Resonance
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi!
Today i experiment with horn and found that resonance comes from horn mouth.
It rings like a bell at 200hz.
Maybe someone knows how to damping horns mouth?
08-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 454
Joined on 07-05-2012
Post #: 5
Post ID: 21828
Reply to: 21827
Qualifications
fiogf49gjkf0d
How did you determine that it is the horn. What makes you think that you can damp a horns mouth at 200 Hz. Have you never read what a room does to frequencies under 400 Hz? If not, check this site out: http://amroc.andymel.eu
Maxx, I think that you are missing a lot of necessary information to make a horn project of this magnitude a success.

Take the horn outdoors at some wide open space and measure it (you can use Arta or some other software). Believe me, your horn is too short to "resonate" at 200 Hz. It is probably too small for 100 Hz (the crossover that you mentioned), but that would make the upper bass "honky"

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
08-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
maxx
Posts 9
Joined on 04-23-2015
Post #: 6
Post ID: 21829
Reply to: 21828
Test
fiogf49gjkf0d
All time i think that my room resonate at these frequencies, but i test it  outside and hear resonating sound. Then i put mic near the mouth and drum with my hand to mouth. Horn ring at ~200hz.
08-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
maxx
Posts 9
Joined on 04-23-2015
Post #: 7
Post ID: 21830
Reply to: 21829
Horn dimensions
fiogf49gjkf0d
Throat 19x19cm
Mouth 71x71cm
lenght 77cm
back chamber 18.8L
08-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 454
Joined on 07-05-2012
Post #: 8
Post ID: 21831
Reply to: 21829
Sorry but I don't believe it
fiogf49gjkf0d
There is not enough mass there for a 200Hz ring. I don't know what you are hearing, but you need to go back to whoever built these things and tell them your stories.
If you really believe that the horn is ringing, add mass, lots of mass to the whole horn. Concrete, bricks, sandbags, lead, virgin geishas - anything, just a lot of it then listen again.
 maxx wrote:
All time i think that my room resonate at these frequencies, but i test it  outside and hear resonating sound. Then i put mic near the mouth and drum with my hand to mouth. Horn ring at ~200hz.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
08-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
maxx
Posts 9
Joined on 04-23-2015
Post #: 9
Post ID: 21832
Reply to: 21831
Mesurements
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thanks!

I do measurements and post results.
08-03-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 10
Post ID: 21833
Reply to: 21822
A project Prelude.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Maxx, you run your tweeter at relatively low crossover point for this configuration. So, you electively run two MF channels at the same reference acoustic output, which generally is not so great ide in my view for this configuration.  Try to find another driver for your MF channel, a driver that can confidently go for one two octaves higher. Then you will be able to unload  a bit MF from your tweeter and perhaps use more “shallow” tweeter. Regarding the midbass – it is small and you are lucky of you able to get out of this horn listenable 180 cycles. I personally would not stress this horn below 200Hz. 

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-05-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
maxx
Posts 9
Joined on 04-23-2015
Post #: 11
Post ID: 21835
Reply to: 21832
Measurements
fiogf49gjkf0d
Midbass horn impedance
midbass horn imp.bmp

Midbass frequency response

midbass.jpg

Midrange frequency response

Mids.jpg

High frequency response

high.jpg
08-09-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
maxx
Posts 9
Joined on 04-23-2015
Post #: 12
Post ID: 21838
Reply to: 21835
Bass
fiogf49gjkf0d
Then i have problems with my tapped horn.
He works  25-90hz range.
What you recommending for bass or midbass?

I do not have too much room for bigger horn system.
08-10-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 13
Post ID: 21840
Reply to: 21838
I do not know.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 maxx wrote:
Then i have problems with my tapped horn.
He works  25-90hz range.
What you recommending for bass or midbass?

I do not have too much room for bigger horn system.
I do not have too much experience with tapped horns but I do not feel that they should be any difference then ported bass. When I had my situation with shortage of space for midbass horns I dealt with direct radiator line-arrays around Scan Speak 25W/8565-00. Love those drivers then and love them no less now, you just need to have a LOT of them per side. It is not that “recommend” but that is just what I did. I generally do not recommend anything, particularly in the cases when people ask questions in a format that does not make me interested.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-22-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
martinshorn
Germany
Posts 114
Joined on 04-14-2017
Post #: 14
Post ID: 24649
Reply to: 21835
Its the chamber
hi maxx    Just found this by accident. Had similar problems in my K-horn when i started to use it higher.  I found out that the 8 Liter prechamber caused the resonance in mine about an octave higher than you seem to have yours.  That would fit to your issue with 18 liter.  Try to load the dia directly onto the throat and ideally fill the dia space with sort of a phase plug. U can use any cone shape item that’s airtight and doesn’t ring.  You can also try to plug a 30-50 Ohm resistor serial and see if that changes anything (if your amp is strong enough to compensate).    Cheers, Josh 
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