Murataltuev wrote:

For now I have only theoretical reasons.If to consider frequency range of the orchestra, we have highest levels in 500-1000Hz range and outside 250-4000Hz range levels drop 10db/octave.All major tones of most of the instruments are also in this range.So, the idea to keep this range as a whole without overlaying by different drivers looks very reasonable.When crossing at 1000Hz around this frequency we have two drivers playing same note of instrument which means we have 2 instruments instead of one.Outside 250-4000 range we have only harmonics and duplicating them is not a big problem, especially at -10db level.That is why my concept for now is to try to get this range as a whole.

Romy the Cat wrote:

Murat, I absolutely do not relate to your reason. In fact I think this is very artificially contrived rezoning.  The true reason is that you like 555 driver that happens to go to 5K and you would like to sell to yourself some kind of theory around it. Let me to give you an argument from my strictly practical filed. In the scenario you proposed you will be having too much sound with identifiable location will be generated from location that will be too high. As the result you will be able to ingrate the sound from much greater region. Alternatively you might go do higher order of filtration but here is where the time consistency will go. Anyhow, it is not live sound but playback and to artificially map instruments to driver is a bit too unnecessary.

Romy the Cat wrote:

If I were in your situation and have 2m long 100Hz horn that I like then I would not dive into any 200Hz la-horns. Make your 200Hz horn up-to let say 1000-1200Hz. Then take your 550Hz and run it from 1200Hz to 10.000 and up. Vice and configure this two driver confutation in order to get good sound. Play with MF drivers to get the best articulation, contrast, dynamic and etc. Then add tweeter and whatever MF section you use. Then, only after then and after spending a few months of listening it as is you can introduce fundamental channel. The channel shall overperfom the top knee of upperbass horn and lower knee of your MF. My estimation, with knowing the driver you use at your upperbass would be that your slow opening horn will give up it’s position at approximately 400hz. How far you need to run fundamental channel is not up to you but up to empirical behavior you will observe. If you feel that your fundamental channel has more interesting sound then your lower MF then the answer is to move up in crossover point.….

Paul S wrote:

Murat, this latest information from you has gotten you farther along than you might suppose at this time. From what you now say, it sounds like 6 months would be a minimum amount of time for you to spend getting a sense of the Sound you are after, along with learning how to shape it, in the context of Music you relate to. Perhaps you might get it in 6 months, or you might take 6 years, but I think Romy nailed the most practical progression, based on money you've (apparently) already spent, and he also gave you his very valuable experience of audibly "locating" the drivers/horns, which is not something one wants to wind up with. An alternate route: If you have more money than time or patience for so much DIY at this time, you might get a pair of old ML2s and a pair of Duo Mezzos and "get up to speed" that way, then you might begin to "cross reference" your own ideas/designs. This way you might actually enjoy some Music as you learn about shaping the Sound of it. Despite so many here seem to be "doing their own thing", I think most of us started out with "store bought" gear and slowly "transformed" it into our present, "personalized" systems. Speaking for myself, I spent over 40 years messing with hi-fi before getting my ML2s and finding this site, and sometimes it feels like I've learned more in the past 9 years than I did in the previous 40+ years. Of course, I am still trying to learn more. At the same time, I insist on immersing in Music, for its own sake, and without this I know I would soon lose interest in hi-fi.

Murataltuev wrote:

I had different speakers from highend brands and was never happy.

Murataltuev wrote:

My last search was close to end up with Focal Utopia (good highs, terrible lows but at least something) but once I heard this 2m horn I got it and not looking around any more. I heard Cessaro Alpha (my friend has and now he is upgrading to Gamma), Vox Olympian (during Munich expo), but I'm not going to buy speakers anymore. After some experiments with crossover, I decided to build my own, because I feel that I know exactly what sound I want.

Romy the Cat wrote:

Do not worry, you won’t be happy with your new speakers as well. It is a little dirty secret that no one told you yet: speakers do not give happiness.

To know exactly what you want it a very good thing. If you do build your own speaker then there is another important factor: to know how to get there. This one a bit tricky as there is no definitive ways and it would requires some experimentation with yourself.

Regarding your last drawing. The way how you depicted the frame you will not have time-alimented. Look at my thread about Mocondo Frame   http://www.goodsoundclub.com/LatestPosts.aspx?ThreadID=3339

….and do not discard Jessie’s ideas in his own thread.

I personally feel that I tis a bit premature for you to think about the frame. I do agree that is very pleasurable to draw the sketches and visualize the future system but at this point you do not know what kind drivers you will be using, how you going to use them and what kind horns you will be employing. You do not even have a final decision how many channels you will be loading into the frame. So I would advise to finals the acoustic system entity and only then suspend and efforts to put them in attractive design. BTW, the ideas of fame you had above will not work from structural perspective. Those “hanging” horns are incredibly heavy and you clearly have insufficient structural support.

When I say that it is a bit too early for you to think about the frame then do not take it little. You can do whatever you want BUT you are wasting your time as I absolutely assure you that you will change your mind about what you want and how you want AFTGER you actually start to listening the channels and decide what  stays and what is goes away for your installation. So you will 100000 times change your mind, so any todays “idea” will become irrelevant in future. Trust me, I was there.

anthony wrote:

EDIT:  Not sure we are on the same page regarding frequency range for this horn

Murataltuev wrote:

anthony wrote: EDIT:  Not sure we are on the same page regarding frequency range for this horn Well, I don't have any other options.My 42Hz upper bass horn has flat frequency response in 70-300Hz range and -5db in 60-400Hz, so I need next channel to work in full from 400Hz at least (from 300hz better!).I was reading Jessie's project thread and see that his 40hz horn is separated from the frame, but I want to stay time-aligned and I have no place on the frame for another 1x1m horn.That means I need to choose from: 1. 200hz horn without "curl" 2. 250hz with "curl" Any suggestions ?

Murataltuev wrote:

anthony wrote: EDIT:  Not sure we are on the same page regarding frequency range for this horn Well, I don't have any other options.My 42Hz upper bass horn has flat frequency response in 70-300Hz range and -5db in 60-400Hz, so I need next channel to work in full from 400Hz at least (from 300hz better!).I was reading Jessie's project thread and see that his 40hz horn is separated from the frame, but I want to stay time-aligned and I have no place on the frame for another 1x1m horn.That means I need to choose from: 1. 200hz horn without "curl" 2. 250hz with "curl" Any suggestions ?

anthony wrote:

The large 42Hz horn would probably want to be crossed over from 160Hz-200Hz at the most which would leave the top octave of the horns range for attenuation.  So what you really need is a horn from about 100Hz to go above it...not going to happen.  The thing about the 42Hz horn is that you can pretty much put it anywhere in the room because the frequencies that it covers do little for imaging or soundstaging.  Of course you can keep them time-aligned if you are persistent like Romy with them in the ceiling behind the listening chair.  Personally I would vertically align the channels that are going to provide imaging and figure out how to do below 100Hz from somewhere else in the room. Regarding the "curl", I personally would not bother...they take up far to much real estate.

anthony wrote:

The thing about the 42Hz horn is that you can pretty much put it anywhere in the room because the frequencies that it covers do little for imaging or soundstaging.