Paul S wrote:

Adrian, you mentioned a while back that you'd taken The Plunge. How goes your own test? You've never mentioned it again.Paul S

Paul S wrote:

So I'm wondering how things are going for the bold explorers who forked over their expectations for a whack at the PP2000.  Have the things turned out to be Plug and Play along with All That, or is this yet another case where Romy has managed to get the Only Good One they ever produced, which only He could ever manage to adapt for acceptable use? It's not that I don't trust the Manufacturer to Walk the Talk... OK, it is that I don't trust them.  Why would I, especially since they are still Officially Silent as the Grave on all Pertinent Issues.  Apart from posting only and exactly the parts of Romy's lenghty, ogoing commentary that sells it best, you'd never know there was any feedback about their products.  Also, I still wonder if the "Nervousness", condemned by the Mfg. (as unique to Romy's unit...), has turned out to be the (dithering?) Key to it's very singular success in One Man's application.  They don't seem to know, themselves, that's for sure (or, they are not saying...).

Is it the characteristic of my unit only or the new trend of Pure Power production? How would I know? Well, let put in this way: why do I care? All that I would say is that if Pure Power let me know that they resoled the defect with the “nervousness” (that they promised me to do!!!) then I will get another “fixed” unit, and only after I confirm that it does not screw up sound I will return my current one. I will not accept the Pure Power’s new releases or modification on “the faith”.

To come clear I have to note that I did suggested to PP to increase the price twice as it would differentiate them from the similarly priced but way less capably performing audio devises. Also, I informed them that if they do 4kW-5kW unit then I would be the first who would like to be a first who would signed in.

What else? Over the course of the last 3 months I have a few people who contacted me informing that they bought the PP2000 after my feedback. Few them report beyond expectations result and two of them report problem, if not sound them with operation. I have no idea how accurate they are in their commentaries; in fact I do not particularly care. The strange people feel that if they and I use the same power regenerators then we are the best friends and it gives them rights to send me emails and ask me question about which I do not care. I asked them to stop sending anything talks to the manufacturer about all their frustrations.

Now, Paul, about your frustration with your electricity. I do not see that you express a frustration about electricity but you rather express a frustration about a lock of sanity from Pure Power or the companies like Pure Power. Ok, I understand it but why do not play the game that have already the redden path.  If not all then most of the companies that sell power devises sell honestly – 30 days money back if it does not work for you. They take care about shipping and everything ease. So, if you feel that a permanent cure of electricity would worth to you let say $5K then why doesn’t no waste those $5K into the trails program? Call up and order all imaginable power devises from anyone you with (there are over 2 dozens of companies out there), taking advantages the free trail. Soon or later you will come upon something worthy, after all that was how I discovered for myself the PP.  You might discover something valuable and you might begin to build up upon the positive finds. Do not forgets, all of those companies mostly are clueless about what they sell in terms of sound and the only one way to educate them is to try and then to explain them what it was and what you would like to do with it.

Anyhow, until you will turn the stones they will lay on the field undisturbed and unused…

drdna wrote:

Okay, today I hooked it up and have spend some time listening. The change in my system was very dramatic and positive. First of all, it seems suddenly like a good electricity day. The noise floor dropped out. The timbre of the music and the body and presence of the music became correct and full. The presentation changed very much. There is no audiophile soundstage: any ideas of artifice of imaging created by the process of recording disappear. The presentation is simply correct as it would be in real life and there is no concern with an imaginary soundstage. This is the thing which impresses me the most immediately: I am simply listening to the Sound and I for the most part suddenly am not obsessing about wires and capacitors and tubes. The only thing, as with Romy's experience is the blunting of the HF. It is not incorrect or distorted. It is simply that the liveliness is absent. Hopefully it will return during the next week. Those are the initial impressions. More to come. But to me so far it seems like everything I hoped for and more.

drdna wrote:

As I said before, the perception of the audiophile imaging and soundstage is really gone.

With interest I read the posts about the mains / power and the effect on hifi gear.

The conclusion why and how electricity thus have an impact and the overall sound of our system is influenced by it is actually quite simple.

Generally the mains is 110 - 240 VAC 50 - 60 Hz
 
The mains shut supply’s a near perfect sinusoidal waveform with a stable frequency of 50 or 60 Hz and low distortion.

The Current the mains supply shut be in phase with the Voltage.

Where thus it go wrong? And what can we do to solve this problem!

In fact we only need pure power, meaning a clean sinusoidal waveform with the supplied current in Phase delivered out of the wall, as simple it is. (Is it?)
 
So we spend big bucks and by us self’s a Power Regenerator and think we are in haven! Wrong

If you look deeper into it then we know that all the gear we use have some kind of build-in internal power supply’s to operate the internal electronics at there different levels. This usually is a Transformer or switching power supply. The internal AC-voltages are converted into DC Voltages with Diodes, Capacitors and DC-DC Converters.

These internal used components and the quality of them to have a huge impact on the electronics and eventually on the Sound as we here it from our repro system.

Generally the better the internal supply the les it is influenced by the external mains power; this is why (pure) battery operated systems are less effected by the quality of the mains power.

Now we go back to where all started; The mains Power and Power Regenerators.

Can we improve our overall system sound in a stable way meaning we can enjoy our music day by day at the same high level as we heard it the day before? 

Answer NO we can not.

To keep it simple there are more technical issues involved as discussed in several technical papers and here in this post.

I will make a small summery and then u can make up your own mind:

Harmonics: a big issue and completely underestimated by the producers of Power Regenerators.

Internal Impedance: shut be as low as possible in the whole system, here we have to keep in mind that all the connections from the equipment to the power source shut be as short as possible.

Jitter: Yes also the AC-Power line / Source is influenced by this phenomena.

Grounding and RF: Lots of studies have proven that the Ground connection in our homes is loaded with all kind of unwanted e-smog.

The best solution here is to have a separate single Ground pin that shut be at least 6 meters of length into the earth.

Still we have the RF problem; here it gets difficult because the optimum situation wood be the have a faraday gage. Most of us are not able to do something against RF Shielding because of cosmetic reasons having the Stereo system setup in the living room for example.

What we can do is not using ore shut down the Wireless stuff, this already helps a lot.

So we need a Power Plant that delivers pure undistorted AC Voltage - Current and this jitter free wit low Harmonic Distortion. The Power plant itself shut not act as an RF radiator as many do.

Herman

Analog Field Application Engineer
30 years of experience in the Analog and Power field

PS: I own the Pure Power 1050 and use it for about 6 month now.

Paul S wrote:

Every case of a "dedicated ground" I have seen, including my own, involves only the redundant "ground" wire. The "ground" wire may not be useful for every component, and it can actually introduce noise in some cases.

drdna wrote :

"...What was more concerning is today some 60 Hz hum also re-emerged in the system... As everything is plugged into the PP2000, I am not sure how to deal with it..."

Before opening up AC outlets and breaker boxes, here's a way of disconnecting the "ground" wire, and doing a quick test.

This is one of the big old power cords from PS Audio, which used to have a nice feature allowing a quick disconnect of the "ground" wire.

Unplugging the connector disconnects the cable and whatever component it supplies from "ground". You can then of course connect a test cable at one end to that same connector, and at the other end to the nearest water or drain pipe.

If you are even remotely capable with a pair of wire strippers and a soldering iron, its a very simple matter to make a test cable with this same feature. Just modify one of the common cheapo power cords that come with most audio components (you can also buy them at computer supply shops, as they are used for the power supply of computers). Use one with the fattest section you can find.

In your case, because everything is going through the PP2000, you have only one AC outlet to consider ; the one supplying the PP2000.

BTW, here's the way PS Audio now do it... Looks a lot more slick, but not as handy for connecting to the nearest water pipe :



Best of luck.

jd*

I should add that disconnecting the "ground" wire as mentioned above will most likely not solve the issue.

It will likely also be necessary to ground the chassis of the components directly (to a nearby water pipe for example).

When grounding the chassis of components, consider also the issue of balanced and unbalanced interconnects.

In the case of unbalanced, find out if the sleeve is carrying chassis ground (use an Ohm meter). If I understand correctly the sleeve typically carries chassis ground.

For this reason, the manufacturer of the amps I use recommends using interconnects that have the connection to the sleeve/shield disconnected at one end... Which would mean tossing out the precious audiophile-approved interconnects, and making my own. Using such an interconnect would allow connecting each chassis directly to a grounding rod.

jd*

Just to be clear : If chassis ground is carried by the interconnect from chassis to chassis, then ground only one chassis.

(Romy, it would be great if we could edit our posts).

jd*

drdna wrote:

What was more concerning is today some 60 Hz hum also re-emerged in the system, sounding like a vibrating cell phone going off in the back of the room. It was interesting how it was sort of localizable, but the hum is annoying. As everything is plugged into the PP2000, I am not sure how to deal with it.

I am a bit concern with word “re-emerged” in your comment.  Are you saying that your playback did not have the hum with PP2000 initially in place and then as the PP2000 was burning the hum re-appeared.  Are you sure that you did not change the connections and the layout of the loads the coursed the hum?

I see highly unlikely that PP2000 is the reason of hum. The only thing that I would advise to check with PP2000 is that it shell not run DC in out that will course not only hum via speakers but also mechanical buzz in your magnetics. The Pure Power for only god know reason did not put in their units a very simplistic automated DC offsetting circuit, so you need to do it manually if you have DC running out of the unit, thanks God Pure Power offers a manual adjustment for it.

Regardless the rest I think you have a normal ground loop somewhere and it might be cured by normal PP2000-independat ways. The PP2000 own power cord must be plugged into 3 pin power receptacle and the ground terminal of the PP2000 into cable much not be lifted. However, feel free to lift the outputs of the PP2000 as much as you wish as long it benefits your specific need. I would advise to do I did what I was playing with PP2000. Plug all system in a big power strip/s and then plug the strip into whatever comes to your head: the wall, instillation transformers, PowerPlants, Sola transformers, AC SS stabilizers, resonating stabilizers… you name it. In this situation you can easy to use just one cheating plug to lift ground on the whole system and to see how it affects the things.

One more tip. I was fighting with this year back and it took for me for a while to figure it out. If you use any DWA to play files of computer and employ KVM switch to run one monitor/mouth/keyboard for multiple machines then be advised that KVM switch is a pack from playback’s “clean” ground to the ground where you PS connected to the utility lines. I was forced to lift the ground on all my 4 PCs that not in audio system at all in order get rid any hum

jessie.dazzle wrote:

(Romy, it would be great if we could edit our posts).

Jessie, the forums are configured that each poster might edit own post within 2 hours after the posting, do you see the “edit” button

jessie.dazzle wrote:

(Romy, it would be great if we could edit our posts). Jessie, the forums are configured that each poster might edit own post within 2 hours after the posting, do you see the “edit” button The Cat

tuga wrote:

Romy, Could your edit button be OS/browser dependent? I have wished to edit a post and never found the mentioned button.

Nope, it is not as it managed by sever code. Let consider it as a bug and I will fix it when I have time. I was under impression that posts are editable by owners – I do edit my own posts sometimes. I though everyone have this option. It is strange that no one complained about it before.

Paul S wrote:

No, the ceiling fan switch is not supposed to read through the PP 2000.&nbsp; But, that's Showbiz, or so I'm told.<BR><BR>No doubt APS has loads to say about it, as ever...<BR><BR><BR>Paul S

beachbum wrote:

I may have been misunderstood on my fan pop. I dont have my 2000 yet. Using a lent older model 1050 the unit was plugged in during the pop. All of the trouble i went through installing 2 dedicated lines with separate ground is now sitting idle with only the 1050 plugged into it O well.

I wish people understand the electricity problems more as impediments of objectives. Good electricity that does not screw up Sound is not the goal but juts a mandatory means. After the electricity is not the problem the biggest question might be: what new opportunity the non-problematic electricity opens up for playback organization?

Let me to explain how I see the things.

Let pretend that we have a hypothetical playback that plugged to the wall and power but known bad electricity. The decisions that were mane within this playback reflect the critical choices that were made for the given playback to do its best under the given condition. Now, by the mean of PP2000 of anything else the electricity problem is addressed. Now the “conditions” are changed, does it make the “critical choices” for thins playback to be different?

So, the way how I see the thing is no reconsolidations about playback setting were made in context of good electricity then ether the old “bad electricity decisions” were not sensible or the new “good electricity decisions” are not taking a full advantage of what is going on.

I understand that people are looking what “black box” to buy in order to deal with electricity problems. However, what I am more interested at this point is how the better electricity changed somebody thinking about other playback’s techniques and about the means the set the plays in the new “critical” mode.

Romy the Cat wrote:

Let pretend that we have a hypothetical playback that plugged to the wall and power but known bad electricity. The decisions that were mane within this playback reflect the critical choices that were made for the given playback to do its best under the given condition. Now, by the mean of PP2000 of anything else the electricity problem is addressed. Now the “conditions” are changed, does it make the “critical choices” for thins playback to be different? So, the way how I see the thing is no reconsolidations about playback setting were made in context of good electricity then ether the old “bad electricity decisions” were not sensible or the new “good electricity decisions” are not taking a full advantage of what is going on.