It seems ironic that the path to bringing the single-channel DSET/narrow band horn idea to market would invlove traditional marketing per se as much as the melding of evolved listening with cutting edge technology.  While there is rote work to be done in terms of actually implementing this gear, there is just as much work to be done in spreading the word through the right channels that this is the way to go and this is the stuff to have.  It seems like there are a few designers out there who either started out with enough capital or they endured privation long enough to emerge as +/- successful purveyors to the high-end.  I am thinking of Da Vinci, Shroder, FM Acoustics, First Sound, and there are others who simply do not offer entry level products.  This shows that it can be done.

But it had escaped my full attention, Romy, that you are just now moving into the final leg of this journey, yourself.  This might be another place to put some of those evolved LCR ideas to work.  I am waiting to see what shakes out in terms of a tube that can really swing some voltage and also sounds good.  Have you thought of cascode?  My own experience in this area is very limited, but it seems like there must be orders of magnitude more power than measurably necessary in order to keep compression drivers from making dynamic shifts.  This is a tall order with single stage  amplification.  Meanwhile, I would imagine that any marketing of the Cessaros would likely be done with off-the-shelf amps to showcase the exisitng design, and any DSET work would have to be done parallel to present marketing efforts.

Where are the well-heeled psychos when we need them?  I am amazed that any thoughtful, rich audio head case would not simply jump at the chance to get into this at this stage in order to take advantage of all the work you've already done, not to mention what actually amounts to saving huge sums of time and money in R&D.  Just think of the money already spent on extravagant junk...

Best regards,
Paul S

Actually my wish for DSETinisation of Gammas has nothing to do neither money nor with Sound, really. The Audio-Morons™ buy and sell audio, and particularly those who are in the $200.000 bracket not because some specific sonic accomplishments or utilization opportunities but explicitly because they follow the marketing stench. The DSET principle and multi-channel horns are a perfectly saleable concept. Not juts perfectly saleable but saleable at intellectual level. A moron who will be writing a review about Gammas should not pull out of his ass the bogus arguments but juts need to harvest whatever is on surface and whatever is know for years to anyone. Sort of the “Convenient Truth”, with diagrams and graphs only instead of selling the Global Warming the audio guy will be selling the bogusness of SET application when a person willing pay too much or demands too little compromises in too wide bandwidth.

Sure, the DSET might be expansive but here is the beauty of Cessaros Gamma come to the picture: it is initially “pushed” as an expansive loudspeaker and the DSET’s price will be gracefully deluded and absorbed by the price of the entire Gamma’s setup. However, the presents of the DSET concept under the Cessaros’ marketing hood will add a lot of value to the Gamma’s “literature”. Do not forget: the idiots in Hi-Fi buy expensive audio mostly not because the expensive results but rather the expensive opinions about the subject of their purchase. So, I think a DSETed Gamma will dramatically extend those avenues according to which the Audio-Morons ™ will be able to gain their confidence that they need those speakers. 

I know what I am talking about. I have interviewed a number of people who have bought outragesly expensive loudspeakers and I remember what I herd from those people when I asked them about their motivations. It is pure “Robb Report” syndrome and it has nothing to do with Audio. However, if the Gamma will come with properly performing DSET then the “healthy people like me” (who do not care about anything besides the actual sonic results) will have a change to hear one more DSET-driven multi-channels horn setup.

Here it is, where the Cessaro folks should look and learn. Their cousins: The Berlin-based Martion Company produces Orgon system. The Orgon design and implementation are erroneous in many ways, however the Orgon system is 4-way playback with active channels, where each channels has own amplification.

http://www.martion.de/english/orgonpics.html

http://www.martion.de/english/produkte04.html

Sure, looking at some moment in the Orgon description I have a lot of suspicion that they use incorrect amplification  and incorrectly, and that multi-amping in there was not implemented as it should be but the desire was there.

Merlin wrote:

I certainly think you must use an active device for the bass/mid transition in any serious design at this level. Choice of amplifiers will be personal. I don't have the worry of output transormers.

I do not want to go on tangent in this Cessaro Gammas thread, still what Merlin said deserves very much to be accented. I juts mention it once in here.

The first order on the bass units is NOT an “unacceptable compromise”. If your bass section, the way how it was implemented (big subject in context of slopes) can handle first order then you are incredible lucky, or incredibly smart, or hopefully both. The first order on the bass units is an incredibly powerful tool that widely unpopular by audio public (did I say morons?) and it is very unfortunate. However, if the system is designed in a way where bass might uses first order then it is a HUGE plus for the presentation ability of a given installation.

I had to put it in my Audio For Dummies™ section…

Romy the Cat wrote:

I do not want to go on tangent in this Cessaro Gammas thread, still what Merlin said deserves very much to be accented. I juts mention it once in here. The first order on the bass units is NOT an “unacceptable compromise”. If your bass section, the way how it was implemented (big subject in context of slopes) can handle first order then you are incredible lucky, or incredibly smart, or hopefully both. The first order on the bass units is an incredibly powerful tool that widely unpopular by audio public (did I say morons?) and it is very unfortunate. However, if the system is designed in a way where bass might uses first order then it is a HUGE plus for the presentation ability of a given installation. I had to put it in my Audio For Dummies™ section… Rgs, Romy the Cat

malinowski wrote:

TAD ET-703 Link MAGNETIC CIRCUIT. A high-energy, rare-earth cobalt magnet is used in the magnetic circuit that, together with powerful soft iron for the pole yoke and plate, provides a high magnetic flux density of 20,000G.

Well, let start with factual data:

http://www.mceproducts.com/knowledge-base/article/article-dtl.asp?id=32

How relevant it is for us, the audio people? Probably very little, and the most important it does not answer why TAD use cobalt in their tweeter.

Guy claims that “not everyone shares the view that Neodymium sounds better in audio”, presuming that someone at TAD actually employed the specific magnets in order to get the well-defined and objectionable sonic consequences.  Here is where I need to let my attitude to run wild. 

I do not believe that anyone at TAD ever conduct any more or less serious listening assessments in order to come to any practical data regarding the sound of those things. Vitavox, JBL, Altec, EV did their Alnico drivers, using different type differently sounding Alnico magnets and they did not even care to acknowledge the differences. I am absolutely convince that TAD engineers, in their vision of magnet saw only dimensions, the maintenance aspects, the flux density in gap and nothing else. No one listen those drivers at least seriously. Sure, they are measured to comply with demanded PA-level specifications but those Pro prodacts have no “sonic specifications” and made sonically “as is”.  The High-End audio is very-very minuscule market for those companies and no one care how this product would sound outside of PA applications. Even the High-End-specific product are made to sound crappy, so what would you expect from a DJ-oriented products?  So, any conversations that someone use cobalt to get some kinky sonic effect on context of 0.15W driving the tweeter, I would disregard as a wishful thinking. Unfortunately…

Also, another interesting subject. TAD, does Neodymium MF drivers and Cobalt Tweeters… Hm…, if “not everyone shares the view that Neodymium sounds better in audio applications” then it should be … different?

Erik the “Be” might be correct and TAD made the driver before Neodymium was used widely and Cobalt was the most powerful. Or perhaps the Pioneer marketing people decided that a new buzz phrase “Samarium Cobalt” would sound very sexy in their marketing catalog? The similar to: “makes the driver especially suitable for monitoring digital sound”.

guy sergeant wrote:

On a secondary point Romy, since when did something have to be designed for serious audio use for it to find an application in a serious audio system?  Did teams of Russians sit around listening to and fine tuning the 6C33 before they started making them? Yet somehow you find a use for them.

There is a difference between using “for sound” some vacuum tubes that were designed to be use for voltage regulation or for TV application vs. to use the  compression drives that sole purpose of existence was actually to produce sound.

I have written many times that Pro audio have VERY much different objective, methods and application then home high fidelity installations. Thos companies of course do not design drivers for home sound or in this matter “for Sound” at all. The quality of Sound, is hardly consider in pro audio as a tradable commodity. Sure, they capitalize on “better sound” but their demands and the references points are way below of what home-audio people could demand.

I am missing something here, because to me this looks like a compression driver with specs that indicate it would best serve >10k Hz, yet it is... a compression driver.  Maybe if it was backed down and run parallel with something more delicate/transparent?

I don't get the point of this thing for home audio, regardless of magnet material.

Best regards,
Paul S