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05-28-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,483
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 29768
Reply to: 29768
Boris Mikhailovich Teplov
Available in English translation

   


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-29-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 513
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 2
Post ID: 29769
Reply to: 29768
If music is this much of an influence, what are minimum requirements for stimuli?
The video deals with specific stimuli but how do we quantify what must be present in a rhythm or melody or harmony? What about discordant music? What about the speed, the register being played. What about pop music that repeats simple patterns?


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
05-29-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,879
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 3
Post ID: 29770
Reply to: 29768
VERY Interesting!
So, since people are working with and developing inate (musical) abilities, a person simply has more or less to work with going in, and they are likely to have more or less inclination to work with it, as well. Hardly casts shade on the idea of birds of a feather, but does explain why "some people will never get it", "it" being any one or combination of the 3 pillars. This displaces but does not seem to negate vivid imagination, which I experienced as a child.
05-29-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,483
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 29771
Reply to: 29768
WTC....
I know that this guy was working or on analyzing some things that I had tremendous interest and never understanding. Well I understand it but I do not know why it is happening and I always was looking for some kind of biological markers which would be responsible for this. If we have a sequence of the nods and we execute them in different tonality the perceptional meaning of the sequence completely change for audience. It is universally known and acknowledged phenomena but I never heard explanation why which would convince me. I think somebody like professor Teplov would be right person to tackle it. Only God knows if it has psychological or biological reasoning.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-30-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 513
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 5
Post ID: 29772
Reply to: 29771
Musically speaking, each key signature has a specific function and effect on our perception
Eb for instance is bold and majestic, D major is brilliant. Gounod said that God only composes in C major. Here is a list:
https://legacy.wmich.edu/mus-theo/courses/keys.html

The association of musical keys with specific emotional or qualitative characteristic was fairly common prior to the 20th century. It was part of the shared cultural experience of those who made, performed and listened to music. When Mozart or Beethoven or Schubert wrote a piece in a Ab major, for example, they were well aware of this was the 'key of the grave' and knew that many in their audiences were as well. We lose a part of the meaning of their music if we are ignorant of their affective choices. Although these characteristics were, of course, subjective, it was possible to conceive of each key as unique because each key actually sounded distinct within unequal temperaments. When equal temperament became the dominant tuning after 1917, the aural quality of every key became the same, and therefore these affective characteristics are mostly lost to us. (See Piano's Ivory Cage) One of the most influential descriptions of characteristics shared in German-speaking cultures in the late 18th and early 19th century was from from Christian Schubart's Ideen zu einer Aesthetik der Tonkunst (1806):

C Major
Completely Pure. Its character is: innocence, simplicity, naïvety, children's talk.

C Minor
Declaration of love and at the same time the lament of unhappy love. All languishing, longing, sighing of the love-sick soul lies in this key.

D♭ Major
A leering key, degenerating into grief and rapture. It cannot laugh, but it can smile; it cannot howl, but it can at least grimace its crying.--Consequently only unusual characters and feelings can be brought out in this key.

C# Minor
Penitential lamentation, intimate conversation with God, the friend and help-meet of life; sighs of disappointed friendship and love lie in its radius.

D Major
The key of triumph, of Hallejuahs, of war-cries, of victory-rejoicing. Thus, the inviting symphonies, the marches, holiday songs and heaven-rejoicing choruses are set in this key.

D Minor
Melancholy womanliness, the spleen and humours brood.

E♭ Major
The key of love, of devotion, of intimate conversation with God.

D# Minor
Feelings of the anxiety of the soul's deepest distress, of brooding despair, of blackest depresssion, of the most gloomy condition of the soul. Every fear, every hesitation of the shuddering heart, breathes out of horrible D# minor. If ghosts could speak, their speech would approximate this key.

E Major
Noisy shouts of joy, laughing pleasure and not yet complete, full delight lies in E Major.

E minor
Naïve, womanly innocent declaration of love, lament without grumbling; sighs accompanied by few tears; this key speaks of the imminent hope of resolving in the pure happiness of C major.
F Major
Complaisance & Calm.

F Minor
Deep depression, funereal lament, groans of misery and longing for the grave.

F# Major
Triumph over difficulty, free sigh of relief utered when hurdles are surmounted; echo of a soul which has fiercely struggled and finally conquered lies in all uses of this key.

F# Minor
A gloomy key: it tugs at passion as a dog biting a dress. Resentment and discontent are its language.

G Major
Everything rustic, idyllic and lyrical, every calm and satisfied passion, every tender gratitude for true friendship and faithful love,--in a word every gentle and peaceful emotion of the heart is correctly expressed by this key.

G Minor
Discontent, uneasiness, worry about a failed scheme; bad-tempered gnashing of teeth; in a word: resentment and dislike.

A♭ Major
Key of the grave. Death, grave, putrefaction, judgment, eternity lie in its radius.

A♭ Minor
Grumbler, heart squeezed until it suffocates; wailing lament, difficult struggle; in a word, the color of this key is everything struggling with difficulty.

A Major
This key includes declarations of innocent love, satisfaction with one's state of affairs; hope of seeing one's beloved again when parting; youthful cheerfulness and trust in God.

A minor
Pious womanliness and tenderness of character.

B♭ Major
Cheerful love, clear conscience, hope aspiration for a better world.

B♭ minor
A quaint creature, often dressed in the garment of night. It is somewhat surly and very seldom takes on a pleasant countenance. Mocking God and the world; discontented with itself and with everything; preparation for suicide sounds in this key.

B Major
Strongly coloured, announcing wild passions, composed from the most glaring coulors. Anger, rage, jealousy, fury, despair and every burden of the heart lies in its sphere.

B Minor
This is as it were the key of patience, of calm awaiting ones's fate and of submission to divine dispensation.

Translated by Rita Steblin in A History of Key Characteristics in the 18th and Early 19th Centuries. UMI Research Press (1983).



Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
05-30-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,483
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 29773
Reply to: 29772
The cable elevators. ??
Robin, when I told you that you do not know how deep the rabbit hole is, I actually meant something. Please take me seriously.
I am very familiar with the entire history of keys used in musicality, synesthesia perception, and I thought naming my post WTC would give a clue. The reason why I would love to talk to professor Teplov on the subject is that I am quite curious why the mapping between key and perception exists within the human psyche. He was a biologist and neuroscientist. This is exactly the type of person who should have insight into the subject.

Furthermore, why has this capacity of our psyche and consciousness never been filtered out over thousands of years of human evolution? If we maintain this quality, then there is a purpose for it, and if there is a purpose, then me, as an engineer, naturally start thinking about how an "injection channel" can be introduced into this phenomenon in order to achieve exactly what I want. Yes, I am a man, and I do feel that my responsibility is to go fuck up the world and see what happens.

I do not expect others to follow my thought process, but since I learned where it comes from within me, I do not explain myself unless the right questions are asked.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-30-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 513
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 7
Post ID: 29774
Reply to: 29773
Maybe we lost it?
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Robin, when I told you that you do not know how deep the rabbit hole is, I actually meant something. Please take me seriously.
I am very familiar with the entire history of keys used in musicality, synesthesia perception, and I thought naming my post WTC would give a clue. The reason why I would love to talk to professor Teplov on the subject is that I am quite curious why the mapping between key and perception exists within the human psyche. He was a biologist and neuroscientist. This is exactly the type of person who should have insight into the subject.

Furthermore, why has this capacity of our psyche and consciousness never been filtered out over thousands of years of human evolution? If we maintain this quality, then there is a purpose for it, and if there is a purpose, then me, as an engineer, naturally start thinking about how an "injection channel" can be introduced into this phenomenon in order to achieve exactly what I want. Yes, I am a man, and I do feel that my responsibility is to go fuck up the world and see what happens.

I do not expect others to follow my thought process, but since I learned where it comes from within me, I do not explain myself unless the right questions are asked.

Romy, I very much am taking this (and you) seriously. As my last post entered with: these mappings were prior to the 20th century. Before that, there were different mappings due to the instruments not being able to play in all keys. This is documented in what is now called the Doctrine of Affects based on 16th, -17th century teachings by 
Lorenzo Giacomini (1552–1598) in Orationi e discorsi (1597)
René Descartes (1596-1650) in Les Passions de l'âme (1649) and "Meditations on first Philosophy" (1641)
Johann Mattheson (1681-1764) "Der vollkommene Kappelmeister" (1739)


There of course is much more. What I am suggesting is that Teplov rediscovered (at least in part) something previously well understood, bound into the lives of the creatives (for centuries) and well documented, but lost by most (or replaced) somewhere between 1850 and 1900.

All of this discussion however has one very large blemish. Intonation has not been constant over the last 600 years. What is for instance C-major today (A=442 Hz), was played 1 half tone lower during Bachs time (A=415), so if we look at the mappings, a D-Major piece from Bach would be mapped to Db today.

If you want to experiment, all it takes is a DAW and a plugin where you change pitch, but not speed. Lower you favorite Bach organ work ½ step down to the pitch that Bach would have experienced and see what happens to your perception. In my experience it results in a color explosion unlike anything we can get in other ways. This is certainly not food for an injection channel, but perhaps a "more perfect world" where the actual intent and expectations of the composer (or pick any other type of art form) are injected into our perception of pleasure.

As compelling as research of the DNA of perception may be, I can't help but think that at the end of the day there will only be a small handful of followers getting benefit and very possibly a huge amount of people with the opposite.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
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