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   Home » Horn-Loaded Speakers» Bill Gaw: over 50 years of high-end audio experience and time aligned horns. (46 posts, 3 pages)
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07-13-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,779
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 26
Post ID: 28298
Reply to: 28297
What I have heard
My own limited experience with the house-sized solar and batteries is that the biggest improvements came from dedicated, "home run" audio circuits with a good bleeder ground for the front end. Mark's old solar system sounded best to me when the mains power was good. I run my own DAC from a dry cell motorcycle battery, bleed off any stray current. It is 12V, as Romy mentioned. That "works".

Paul S
07-13-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,385
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 27
Post ID: 28299
Reply to: 28297
Who knows?.

Bill, I do not think that what you describing is contribution of solar power. The actionable factors in your playback is new regenerator and new battery. They might be good and bad but you also need to take under consideration the following. The Purepower regenerators that you use most likely at this point not functioning properly as its own battery are gone. As acidic battery is getting old their impedance increased and they stop filter AC. So, your generator, unless you changed after 5 years, the batteries is substantially compromised. Very much like mine. If it shut down power, it's not capable to maintain charge even for 1 second. It means the battery is garbage in my unit. 

I've sent me intentional response to fix it because I do not want to buy those 8 ampere batteries but I would like to buy bank of automobile batteries. My playback now is not 16 KW and many tubes, by mostly solid state and low voltage 12x7, so I perfectly fine can run it from battery for a long time. 

The remaining question is the Media of regeneration. The contemporary regenerator supposed to be better than 25 years ago... Hypothetically. Alsa, contemporary batteries are order of magnitude better than old solid battles.  Maybe it Worth to review the performance of PP and try to find contemporary alternative product. Or it might make sense to retrofit PP with new big battery. One way or another I would not use PP and your new regenerator together as those digital converters have a very ugly ways to talk to each other and typically more than one regenerations in run installation never sound properly. 

But, again, it is freaking electricity. Nobody knows anything.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-13-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,779
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 28
Post ID: 28300
Reply to: 28298
Same-Phased
Just wanted to add, Mark's dedicated home-run hi-fi circuits (hot, neutral and ground) were all the same phase (120V). Thinking at first this stuff should be in the Electricity thread, but it already is, several posts on this there, for anyone who's interested.

Paul S
07-14-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 359
Joined on 08-18-2014

Post #: 29
Post ID: 28304
Reply to: 28299
Almost certainly
 Romy the Cat wrote:

Bill, I do not think that what you describing is contribution of solar power. The actionable factors in your playback is new regenerator and new battery.


For sure it is the inverter and battery contributing to the sound, and the solar generation  taking a little away...at least in my experience.  Here, the best sound is still at night when running only from battery power, but in full sun is also pretty decent (we have lots of cloudless days here!).  A slight hardness comes to the sound on overcast days where (I assume) the microinverters on the solar panels are having a harder time generating full solar output.
07-15-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 139
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 30
Post ID: 28308
Reply to: 28299
I agree
I agree that it's not the solar itself doing the improvements but the combination of the solar-battery-inverters that are doing it. Being able to completely remove the system from the line's anomalies is the trick. Also you are right in that they are new inverters plus a much larger battery supply that allows instantaneous power to the system.My purepower batteries are the lithium iron phosphate variety and they tested good a few months ago. But tonight I,ll remove the line to see how long they last in the system, and then remove the purepower from the chain and see what happens. Hope you are right as that would mean ven cleaner sound. Will let all know bill
07-16-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 139
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 31
Post ID: 28309
Reply to: 28308
Right again
As usual Romy was right again. Disconnected purepower from ac and within a few seconds the unit went dead. Then plugged system directly into house which at the time was running on battery only at 8:30 pm. Sound was glorious but did not hear any improvement compared to running on battery through the purepower. So guess the purepower didn't have any deleterious effect on the battery ac. But as it didn't show any improvement either, wil leave it out of the system unless the solar batteries run down.Still highly recommend going with solar with battery backup at least with the Enphase-Franklin system I have. Wish I had done this years ago.Bill
07-16-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,385
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 32
Post ID: 28310
Reply to: 28309
PurePower vs ...

The PurePower performance with discharged battery is not well understood. We do understand what happened with the unit on electrical level but how it manifests itself sonically nobody knows. My unit has absolutely dead battery for a few years. I do not have luxury to have a unit with battery and unit without it, so I cannot be certain. I contacted Richard from purepower and he was very thoughtful to provide number of options how batteries might be replaced. My personal feeling that his discharge battery the quality of electricity the unit produced is reduced, but since this frag was boiling for a long time, I do not see it as a problem. 


Bill, if you feel that your generator from your solar panel does wonderful job that I would strongly encourage you to drive any another digitally generate in power devices out of your system. Those units return obscene amount of digital noise to the ground and grounds of your multiple digital devices will be talking to each other in very negative way.  Unfortunately, you cannot lift grounds for your your regenerators. So what basically you need to do is decide which regenerator produce better quality from your solar system or purepower. Since your purepower is compromised with the battery you might wait when I refresh my batteries for my purepower and then you can borrow it from me and try.





"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-17-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 359
Joined on 08-18-2014

Post #: 33
Post ID: 28313
Reply to: 28259
Holy Trinnov!
The Trinnov is in my system for the first time tonight.  Just a rough optimization done and running 8 channels in Auro3D configuration including Macondo, 2 front height, two rear height, two surround...very rushed...no great care taken setting things up.  All non-Macondo channels are the same JBL708P studio monitors.  Have not bothered any bass setup yet nor installed the ceiling speaker.

The sound.

There is so much to unwrap here with my first couple of hours just streaming Youtube and letting the Trinnov do the Auro3D processing including for Macondo (I am using digital out from the Trinnov to my Aries Cerat dac for Macondo).  So much to unwrap, such unexpected results, my head is almost spinning.  I love what it is doing...but is it too much?  Or too much too quickly?  

Bill, you are certainly on to something here.
07-17-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,385
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 34
Post ID: 28314
Reply to: 28313
It will take for a while...
Well, Antony, I think it is too early for you BUT in my view one of the greatest impacts with AURO you get when you plug the AURO subwoofers and they will give the “space”. You might consider using 2 or 4 Macondo bass cannons for it. Still, it will be great it they were behind your listening spot. Also, do not forget that your AURO monitors are ported. So high path them at >80Hz


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-21-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 139
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 35
Post ID: 28319
Reply to: 28313
Trinnov
Anthony:Please feel to ask here if you have any quesdtions on Trinnov setup. As you have extraq channels, when you get some time with it you may want to use its crossover potential on your main speakers. Bill
08-04-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 383
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 36
Post ID: 28322
Reply to: 28294
Thank you
 Bill wrote:
Several months ago I decided at 78 years old to go ahead and do a solar electric install. While costing $56,000, most of which I’m sure I’ll never see a return due to my age, it was well worth the investment for my audio- video system. The system is from Enphase, probably a Chinese commie company, with a large Franklin Electric lithium iron Phosphate battery for backup. 

When either the panels or the battery are running, the street electric is cut off. The battery can power the house for several hours during the night.I have to say this is one of the best investments I’ve done for my system, rivaling those taught to me by Romy. The sound is the most natural I’ve heard with my system, ven beating what Romy and I heard a couple of weeks ago. At any time of day for the past two weeks, it has been glorious. No further good and bad listening sessions. Plus the sound now is not just pure, but natural, and draws one into it. With the best recordings, especially using Auro 3d, there is absolutely no noise coming from my 105 dB sensitive Edgar designed horns even when the ear is up against the mouth. Overall, the improvement is well worth the cost even if I don't live to see a financial payback. I've as yet no heard any negatives, xcept to my bank account.

Next time Romy comes over I’ll let him described what the off the grid sound is like, as words fail me at the moment.

Bill

Thank you Bill for sharing your experience. 

Amir



www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
08-04-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 383
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 37
Post ID: 28323
Reply to: 28299
Isolate two igbt inverters
 Romy the Cat wrote:

Bill, I would not use PP and your new regenerator together as those digital converters have a very ugly ways to talk to each other and typically more than one regenerations in run installation never sound properly. 


if we isolate earth then do you think using isolation transformer between two digital AC regenerators will sound properly?


www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
08-04-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 139
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 38
Post ID: 28324
Reply to: 28322
Still great
Have now had three weeks experience with the solar and still feel it’s the best sound I’ve had in 50 plus years. My 105 dB per watt horns driven by Romy's amps are dead silent ven with the ear against the mid mouth, as is the rest of the system.The battery is a 5 kva Franklin lithium iron phosphate which is the same size as the new Stromtank unit reviewed this month in Stereophile. The whole system is also the same price as that unit, and has the advantage that so far my electric bill for July dropped from $485 last year to $60 this year with the solar panels only in use for two of the four weeks. Will be interesting what happens to the bill over the coming months.ALS I have had no problems with it compared to the panoply of noises and defects in to Stromtank. So a much better use of $56,000.THe 45 panels are from  Enphase, and each is constructed with it own dc to ac converter. How they get all of them to have the ac waves in phase I have no idea and do not have an oscilloscope to see what,s going on.Interestingly, even a few nights ago when the battery was used up, he system still sounded better than before the solar installation. Also I must add that I have removed the purepower unit from the system as it doesn’t seem to help the sound now. Guess I’ll keep it in case something goes bad with the solar.Bill
08-04-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 139
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 39
Post ID: 28325
Reply to: 28323
Don't know
If using isolation transformer between them would do anything. As I’ve removed the purepower from the system the point is moot. I do have a couple of 2 and 3 kva isolation transformers in the attic which we could experiment with if you desire. Also you can borrow my pp 2000 with new batteries to see if it sounds better on your system than you dead ones.Bill
08-04-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,385
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 40
Post ID: 28326
Reply to: 28324
Solar?
Bill, I am not trying to to sensor you but I would like to correct what you are saying purely for reason of clarity. You refer to what you do as solar, but in reality you are not using solar to improve sound but you use battery buffered different generator. I'm stressing It because if you claim that improvement come from solar then I presume people have wrong understanding where improvement comes from. I'm not insisting that I'm right but it feels to me solar is misguided.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-04-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 139
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 41
Post ID: 28327
Reply to: 28326
You may be right about the buffering
As the other night when running the system on line, it still sounded great. Really don't care the cause of the improvement. Just the mprovementscto my my sound and the electric bill. I understand that I had to spend $56,000 to get it, but considering what it would cost for a defective Stromtank unit and the 20 year payback, and how much I,ve spent over the years to get less in return, I’m happy. Also sorry Romy but it looks like I’ve talked the wife into not moving for the foreseeable future😈
08-04-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,385
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 42
Post ID: 28328
Reply to: 28327
A question.
When you run your solar system online, you still not having power from solar, but you have power from a new battery powered regenerator. The question is the presence of solar panels in front of the regenerator makes its difference, compare if it were powered by non-solar power source? This is very interesting question, I have no answers and I think in setup that you made you cannot answer this question as well? Am I correct?


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-04-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 139
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 43
Post ID: 28329
Reply to: 28328
Correct!
Would be easier figuring out the intricacies of the system Mano a Mano.
08-04-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 359
Joined on 08-18-2014

Post #: 44
Post ID: 28330
Reply to: 28328
Solar sound quality
Not sure if I mentioned this before, in my solar/battery  system, which is similar to Bills,  sound is best at night when there is no sun and the inverter is drawing only from the batteries, but during the day with zero clouds the sound is really comparable.  Where there are shadows moving across the solar panels (i.e. clouds) I do notice a small drop in sound quality, but perhaps that is just my mood too...

I do have a balanced isolation transformer and separate ground rod to switch into the system to see if the sound can be improved.  Immediately after the secondary of the iso tran are some high and low frequency LC filters to tidy up any residual noise.  Will switch that in once the system is finally tuned...soon.


08-05-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,385
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 45
Post ID: 28331
Reply to: 28330
Why?

I already see another big time reviewer reading above, calling his body and say him hey; do you want to start a new company? You buy in bulk for penny the Chinese regenerators with batteries, and I will sell to my audio morons with my prices. 


That reality is that if this regenerator does produce better signal which for whatever reason is very beneficial for Audio, then it would be very wonderful if somebody look into it and try to figure out why.




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-05-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,385
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 46
Post ID: 28332
Reply to: 28331
A very cool audio recommendation.... And free!

I would like to extend a gift to Bill, by giving him a tip. I absolutely assure him and anybody else that if Bill will follow through my tip then he will experience a tremendous pleasure, probably even exceeding the pleasure he experienced right now from his playback. 


What do you need to do, Bill, after you get accustomed you have and after knowing what you know, make a Saturday trip to biggest local dealers and listen the sound in their primary rooms. Or if you have a balls then you can book a trip to to some kind of big international audio show. You will get amazing sentiments and amazing sensations observing that Cuckoo Net.


Feel free to post your comments after your trip




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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