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  »  New  A revision of playback with reverberation injection or ..  Lexicon MX400...  Playback Listening  Forum     82  123917  08-03-2021
08-14-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 76
Post ID: 26276
Reply to: 26273
Do not go there, too much hustles.
 xandcg wrote:
 I would like to ask if you have tried something like guitar reverb pedals instead of those processors (or other ambient pedals)?

I do not think that you need to go to rout of guitar reverb pedals, they are very badly made and very primitive in actions for our objectives. If you would like do not used what Yamaha dzd and wiling to execute you own reverberation profile then I would go for a good pro multiprocessor, like  Behringer Virtualizer 3D FX2000 and you will be able to do everything in there from scratch.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-14-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 338
Joined on 08-18-2014

Post #: 77
Post ID: 26277
Reply to: 26274
Haha, you got me
Nice one with the new video.  
I can recommend a good Tasmanian whisky from Lark or Sullivan's Cove.  Am partial to a rum cask finish myself during these winter months. 

 Romy the Cat wrote:
 anthony wrote:
Was a Lexicon CP1 or CP3 processor part of your trials?  It looks an interesting unit 

https://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/19/arts/sound-now-concert-halls-pay-house-calls.html


Could not read that Romy.  It is behind a pay wall.
08-14-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 78
Post ID: 26278
Reply to: 26277
Now Concert Halls Pay House Calls
SOUND; Now Concert Halls Pay House Calls By Hans Fantel March 19, 1989

Playing symphonic music in the living room defies the natural order of things.

You have a hundred musicians fiddling, blowing and banging away in a room just big enough for a small dinner party. Acoustically, this doesn't add up. After all, the music was conceived with a certain acoustic assumption - the aura of a space large enough to hold the orchestra and maybe a thousand listeners. The reverberant character of such a place is therefore implicit in the score. Playing the music via records or radio in a typical domestic setting creates a contradiction between sonic and architectural dimensions.

Psychoacoustics - the science dealing with the human perception of sound - has yet to define the exact nature of this contradiction, but throughout the history of the phonograph, recording engineers have obviously been aware of it.

Over the years there have been numerous attempts to deal with this set of problems. The birth of stereo in the l950's greatly enhanced the possibilities of suggesting in playback the spatial aspects of the original performance. But even at its best, stereo cannot properly replicate the sound field of an actual performance.

The difficulty is that sound reflections in the concert hall impinge on the listener from all directions. At home, by contrast, the music arrives mainly from the speakers in front.

There have been continued efforts to resolve this discrepancy, but it was not until the advent of digital technology that the problem could be approached successfully. The present state of these endeavors is impressively exemplified by Yamaha's DSP-3000 Digital Sound Field Processor and the LexiconCP-1 Audio Environment Processor (not to be confused with the professional model, intended for use in recording studios), respectively priced at $1,899 and $1,200.

Although the two differ in their particulars, they share the ability to generate the acoustic ambiance of the concert hall in whatever environment they are placed. The Lexicon, for example, offers a choice of six kinds of settings: rectangular halls and fan-shaped halls, each three different sizes - small, medium and large. It can also provide varying amounts of reverberation without reference to any specific hall shape. Finally, there are provisions for decoding the surround-sound information contained on movie soundtracks, in case theaterlike sound effects are wanted when playing videocassettes.

The Yamaha DSP-3000 offers an even greater variety of acoustical options. Moreover, the settings created by this device are not theoretical constructs but the equivalent of actual halls. Yamaha engineers have measured the acoustics in several famous concert halls both in Europe and the United States and programmed mathematical models of their specific acoustics into the digital computer chips that lie at the heart of the device.

Then they did the same thing with other types of musical evironments such as nightclubs, discotheques, opera houses, chamber music auditoriums and even a vast sports arena. A total of 20 different sound fields sampled in various locations are stored within Yamaha's remarkably trim and compact device.

When these ambient simulators are connected to the amplifier at the listener's home, they will make whatever music is played sound as if it were heard in the simulated hall - even if it was recorded somewhere else. What's more, each setting can be modified so that the listener may, so to speak, choose his seat in the simulated place.

The hitch is that several auxiliary speakers are needed to project the simulated ambiance into the living room, and each of these speakers requires its own channel of amplification. Hooking up these extra speakers complicates the installation and easily adds another $1,000 or more to its cost. Obviously, such an elaborate setup will appeal primarily to prosperous audio fans with an invincible streak of perfectionism.



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 79
Post ID: 26296
Reply to: 26278
OK, I am done



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-20-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 80
Post ID: 26423
Reply to: 26182
Sorry...
I usually do not do it but it does not happen frequently. Here is the best reverb injection sound fields processor in my view.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373761770736?hash=item5705f004f0:g:quoAAOSwl-VhLtNp

Of course. I am not a seller....




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
DorinD


Bucharest, Romania
Posts 4
Joined on 01-20-2020

Post #: 81
Post ID: 26455
Reply to: 26423
I've start using reverberation injection after your favourable results
Dear Sirs,
Following Romy's the Cat Youtube series on reverberation injection, I started gathering info and looking for some equipment to start experimenting. I was lucky enough to get a relatively cheap Yamaha DSP-1 in perfect condition from Germany and also put to good use an old pair of bookshelfs as rear channels. I was thinking that if it sounds good enough I would expand it to 6ch.
It sounded indeed extremely realistic and I want to thank you Romy for the excellent suggestion on introducing reverberant sound field in playback. It indeed creates the illusion that you are in the right location, concert hall, stadium or else. It is one of the best improuvement I senses in the evolution process of my horn system. I thank you also for the feedback on better using 4ch instead of 6ch because I really don't want to extent it further on.
The remote control was essential in the first two weeks of setting the system. Now, because i feel that I got it right, I am thinking of replacing Yamaha with a Lexicon MX400 which would be even superior to a Yamaha DSP-3000 except the lack of remote control (but as I said, this is no longer really necesary). I am using 3 or 4 sound fields definitions and these are also available on Lexicon. Still, I'm not in a hurry to change anything because it sounds so realistic, I have nothing to ask for more.
Hope that my feedback would convince others to give it a try, it's worth it.
Regards,Dorin




It's never too late having a happy childhood.
11-08-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 338
Joined on 08-18-2014

Post #: 82
Post ID: 26504
Reply to: 26455
Good feedback
Because the Yamaha units are just not available in Aus and I do not feel paying $250 shipping for something 20yo and probably in need of a recap I ended up going with the MX400.  It is less expensive here, brand-new and while getting used to things I can just run longer cables and twirl the knobs from the comfort of my listening chair before setting it into its permanent position.
11-09-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
DorinD


Bucharest, Romania
Posts 4
Joined on 01-20-2020

Post #: 83
Post ID: 26505
Reply to: 26504
Lexicon MX400
I am curious how good would be MX400 compared to old Yamaha's; please provide us a feedback after you play a couiple of weeks with it even if you don't have a Yamaha to compare with. Thank you.


It's never too late having a happy childhood.
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  »  New  A revision of playback with reverberation injection or ..  Lexicon MX400...  Playback Listening  Forum     82  123917  08-03-2021
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