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  »  New  Dpols?..  Who knows.......  Playback Listening  Forum     11  62024  07-16-2020
  »  New  High-End Audio, DPoLS - a notch up...  My Story...  Playback Listening  Forum     3  13435  12-03-2024
02-17-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,485
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 26
Post ID: 20617
Reply to: 994
It is time to go for DPoLS?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I got a few days an email from the site reader where he expressed interest about DPoLS and informed me that is working on his own methodology to deal with DPoLS.  This kind of revived in my memory when my own installation was in DPoLS positions, God, that was fantastic!!!

So, I kind of slowly begin to think if it would be a good time for me to try to chaise DPoLS with Macondo and my new listening room. Over 3 years that I live with my new current listening room I never went for DPoLS, I think I am in position to go for it now. The floors are flat now (hardwood) and the ma Macondo has felt at the bottom- so it more or less mobile.  I think I need to get a second person and spend a good listening day to try chasing the DPoLS. The DPoLS is in a way a mythical unicorn. The unicorn hunt is my wify’s favorite theme, perhaps I will be able to sell the concept to her and let her to move Macondo while I am listening.  Well, in the worse care I will sleeping a in basement next night -  not bad -  I can smoke sugars in there.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-18-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 517
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 27
Post ID: 20618
Reply to: 20617
DPoLS 3D?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy,
I say "Go for it"!  With your usual documentation, we can only profit from you getting the hernia first. I got mine operated on last week, so looking is all that I can do for the next 3 months.

One thing that has always roused my curiosity: your speakers are spread over quite a big area. Getting DPoLS for all of them at the same floor position seems to be a pretty big crap shoot. Your midbass horns are built in. What happens when the upper bass gets DPoLS? Does it become impossible to integrate?


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
02-18-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,902
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 28
Post ID: 20619
Reply to: 20618
Room Loading vs...
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, it is time again for me, too, as soon as my amps get back from United Radio. Among many choices to make, which music to target?

OT, Robin, I think every trumpet player I've ever known has had a hernia. Hope all goes well for you, but WTF?

Best regards,
Paul S
04-05-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 390
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 29
Post ID: 24796
Reply to: 15010
Confused
 Romy the Cat wrote:

So, you get a pair of loudspeakers and a room with comfortable foe you reflection pattern. You set up left loudspeaker (left for you) where I need to be. I always suggest starting from left loudspeaker as it cares the fist violins, sopranos of choruses and generally in western culture is associated with HF lead. You take RTA or TEF pulse analyzer and perfects align each channel of the loudspeaker to your listening position. Then you take a right loudspeaker and do the same. 


Rgs, Romy the Cat

what means "You set up left loudspeaker (left for you) " ? does it mean we should first position left speaker in a good place and then use RTA to Align channels after positioning? 
 Romy the Cat wrote:

They the fun begins. You need to align the right and left loudspeakers to each other in respect to this position in the room. We are not taking here about arrival time and it will be skewed and hardly measurable as we will not be able to subtract the modulations from reflections. So you take pulse analyzer away and using just TRA we are trying to setup R and L loudspeakers to have max amplitude of each other impact.  Here is where you deal with true DPoLS.


Rgs, Romy the Cat

does it mean we should again change speakers positions?does it mean we just align channels in this step?


www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
11-29-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 390
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 30
Post ID: 27726
Reply to: 24796
Stirling Trayle
The Good news is Mr. Stirling Trayle Can properly setup speakers in room and the result is very similar to DPOLS.
My friend Mr. Mayer lives in CA and he has Living Voice Vox Olympian horn system (with kondo electronics) and he asked Stirling Trayle to come and place the speakers in room.
The result is wonderful and it seems it is very similar to DPOLS .
Stirling Trayle Spend over 50 hours (hard work) to find the right speaker position and the result was impressive.
Stirling Trayle Use sumiko method for speaker placement.





www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
11-29-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,485
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 31
Post ID: 27727
Reply to: 27726
A very interesting source indeed.
It would be very interesting if you would write a book.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-29-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 390
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 32
Post ID: 27728
Reply to: 27727
Sumiko method
There are some descriptions about sumiko method on the web but I think those are not very detailed. 
This is the webpage of Stirling Trayle 
https://www.audiosystemsoptimized.com/ 
I think I should invite Stirling Trayle to my home and ask him to position the speakers and check the result.





www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
12-01-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,485
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 27735
Reply to: 27728
A very rare but very strong recommendation.

Stirling Trayle and I exchange a few you messages. I sent him a link to DPoLS translation and he immediately identified some weaknesses of the article, very impressive. I find that what he does is exceptionally interesting and uniquely rare. I have a reputation do not patronize on recommend any business or services in audio but in this case I would like to make exception and provide my very strong recommendation to use Stirling Trayle while she is still able to operate. As I understand he is in his 60s and after he will be gone this knowledge, from epistemological perspective will be lost. I did suggest him to write a book, I do not think he will, and it is very unfortunate.




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-02-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 390
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 34
Post ID: 27738
Reply to: 27735
Thank you
Romy, Thank you for sharing your idea.
I hope he write a book about speaker placement


www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
12-03-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
idrachman
New York
Posts 1
Joined on 12-03-2024

Post #: 35
Post ID: 27739
Reply to: 27738
Sumiko speaker setup
Hi - take a look, may answer your questions about knowledge transfer of the process, but the experience will be missed without his personal notes.

https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=46634

I also use REW to capture room acoustics.  Then consider applying acoustic treatments to address. The "art" is where and what to apply - diffuser, absorption, thickness and how much.
12-03-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,485
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 36
Post ID: 27741
Reply to: 27739
Yep, it was good
 idrachman wrote:
Hi - take a look, may answer your questions about knowledge transfer of the process, but the experience will be missed without his personal notes.

https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=46634

I also use REW to capture room acoustics.  Then consider applying acoustic treatments to address. The "art" is where and what to apply - diffuser, absorption, thickness and how much.
Yep, I have seen it and it is very good, to start with... I just uploaded a large video on the subject. Not a lot of recommendations but a lot of incentives... I can't go a lot of practical recommendations as I am intimately familiar for many years only with my acoustic system which would have no relevance for others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urMPZGVOI7A



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-04-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 390
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 37
Post ID: 29838
Reply to: 27735
Book “Precision Sound” Todd Binnix and Stirling Trayle

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/194890344X/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0



This book is around 350 pages describe the speaker placement method.
I think this book is very very helpful so I 100000% recommend it to everyone who loves audio.
I talked to Stirling and asked him to come to Iran for speaker placement but because of Iran is not a safe place for USA people so Stirling can not come to Iran.
I really thank Todd and Stirling for this book, very very helpful book.
This book mainly focuses on speaker placement method but also there are some interesting ideas about relation of better sound and lowering noise.
This book describes how both lowering noise and proper placement can change the sound dramatically.
My experience shows the lowering noise (good AC power, good RF rejection, proper grounding and proper Interconnection) is very important.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/UserImages/IMG_7462.jpeg



www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
11-04-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,485
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 38
Post ID: 29839
Reply to: 29838
A Review of a Book I Haven't Read.
Thank you very much, Amir. I just published the review on this book and I do not know if Amazon will approve my flamboyant language, so I'm posting it below as well. 

------------------ Review -------------------


This is probably the most ridiculous book review you have ever encountered. I am going to recommend a book I have not read. Not even opened.

You see, I have reached a point in my life when I stopped reading books and began writing them. So allow me to do what I apparently do best: express a strong opinion about something I am completely unfamiliar with.

Around twenty-five years ago, I began developing an idea proposed by a little-known Russian fellow, A. Polakov, which eventually became my article *About the Dead Points of Live Sound*. The phenomenon I was investigating was astonishing. In every listening room, there appeared to be certain very specific positions, measurable with millimeter precision, where placing loudspeakers produced profound changes in sound reproduction. A similar effect appeared when microphones were positioned at these points, revealing a remarkably different acoustic signature of the same room.

For years, I tried to find somebody who could give me a reasonable scientific explanation for what I had experienced practically. Nobody did.

A few years ago, however, I had an opportunity to speak with a gentleman named Stirling Trayle. And I encountered perhaps the most interesting brain I have ever met in the field of loudspeaker placement. His thinking impressed me enormously. Not merely its sophistication, but its methodological discipline, its extraordinary attention to the relationship between a loudspeaker and a listening room, and, most importantly, its remarkable freedom from the manufacturing ego that has contaminated so much of high-end audio.

I found his approach more intellectually compelling than the Wilson Audio Setup Procedure, the Sumiko Master Set, and many other methodologies familiar to me.

Now, here is my conclusion about the book Mr. Trayle has written with his collaborator, Todd Binnix. I have absolutely no idea what they wrote. Nevertheless, I believe that anybody seriously interested in loudspeaker placement should spend some time wandering around inside Stirling Trayle's brain.

I intend to do precisely that. Not immediately, of course. I am too busy writing my own books. But I would purchase this one and place it on a very particular bookshelf.

This is not an ordinary bookshelf. These are books I deeply revere. But what I seek is not merely the wisdom their authors left behind. I want to experience the moment that wisdom was born. The book is the trace. I want the discovery.

There sits Bjørn Kolbrek and Thomas Dunker's enormous *High Quality Horn Loudspeaker Systems*. Nearby are the three volumes of *The Feynman Lectures on Physics*. Carl Jung's *Red Book*. The Indian *Upanishads*. Lao Tzu's *Tao Te Ching*. The ancient writings that never entered the biblical canon. Nietzsche. Petrarch. And the ideas of my beloved Roger Penrose.

I say *ideas* deliberately. I have not read Penrose's technical books. I lack the mathematical equipment to engage his arguments at their proper level. But I have watched his interviews and lectures, returned to his thinking countless times, and found that almost every encounter leaves me with something new to write. His thinking hypnotizes me.

This is the company in which I would place *Precision Sound*.

And that brings me to its price. The book is currently listed on Amazon at **40% off its original price**. I find that discount philosophically offensive.

Somewhere in the machinery of modern commerce, there is an algorithm that regards this book as merchandise. If it is not selling quickly enough, lower the price. Stimulate demand. Move inventory. What a magnificent misunderstanding of what a book can be.

If I were advising Mr. Trayle and Mr. Binnix, I would tell them to maintain the original price. Or better still, increase it to three hundred dollars. I am perfectly serious.

This is not, in my view, a book intended to be purchased by the thousands, consumed, and forgotten. I suspect it contains ideas that may require an audiophile to spend years confronting everything he thought he knew about sound reproduction. And that is precisely why I want it.

I do not want another solution for placing loudspeakers. I have spent decades developing my own understanding of audio. I have reached a point where my most interesting questions are no longer entirely technical.

One of them became an episode in my first novel, *Yesterday Starts Tomorrow Morning*. Klaus, the old German audiophile, is an autobiographical character. He spends a lifetime pursuing sound reproduction with almost religious seriousness. And then, one evening, a damping pad moves half a centimeter. Half a centimeter!

The recorded performance has not changed. The singer has not changed. The electrical signal is not the essential question. Yet Klaus's experience of the performance changes so profoundly that his understanding of fidelity itself begins to collapse.

This is the problem that has fascinated me throughout my involvement with high-end audio. How can half a centimeter of movement change not merely what I hear, but what I believe I am hearing? And ultimately, what I believe high fidelity *is*?

For me, this becomes an epistemological question. Eventually, an ontological one. And, perhaps most unexpectedly, a Jungian one.

Because genuinely high-end audio—not the expensive bullshit that an industry built upon manufacturing and selling myths has taught us to worship—is ultimately concerned with the relationship between an external physical event and the human being experiencing it.

We do not merely position loudspeakers. We bring our expectations, convictions, memories, aesthetic judgments, and personal mythologies into a room, and then we move two wooden boxes around, occasionally by a fraction of an inch, hoping to discover something we did not know about ourselves.

I suspect Stirling Trayle understands something important about this peculiar activity. I cannot tell you whether his book explains it. I have not read the damn thing. But I know enough about the mind of one of its authors to want to find out.  

And perhaps that is my real recommendation. Do not buy this book because I am promising that it will solve your loudspeaker problems. I cannot promise that.  

Buy it because there are people whose thinking is worth encountering even before you know whether you agree with them. Stirling Trayle is, in my experience, one of those people.  

So here it is: my enthusiastic recommendation of a book I have not read, about a subject I have spent much of my life trying to understand.



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 2 of 2 (38 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Learn to listen your listening rooms..  Rooms and music-rooms...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     15  172419  04-05-2005
  »  New  Do not over-damped your rooms and particularly…...  Do not over-damped your rooms and particularly…....  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     0  33673  10-09-2005
  »  New  Be careful: Imaging vs. Compression..  Compression vs. imaging...  Playback Listening  Forum     23  291950  10-24-2005
  »  New  The IDEAL horn system..  Serious Coax? Where?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     27  275663  12-11-2005
  »  New  Don't position speakers but create Sound in room...  Listener position...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     1  55841  06-19-2006
  »  New  The most promising “best” commercial speaker..  Upward Mobility...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     241  2408934  12-06-2006
  »  New  Macondo Frame modification...  Parquet...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     46  581714  12-22-2006
  »  New  About speakers Imbedded Macro-Positioning...  Big room AEZ...  Playback Listening  Forum     15  234841  05-16-2007
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  956450  07-29-2007
  »  New  ... again on GOTO Unit drivers.....  GOTO installation in Lithuania....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     108  1431898  08-16-2008
  »  New  A sort of DPOLs..  My experience with the DEQ...  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     8  117742  01-16-2009
  »  New  Off-the-wall playback or the 'hamster solution'...  Spacial information...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  73933  02-26-2009
  »  New  A book about Loudspeakers and Rooms?..  Book review...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  67696  08-18-2009
  »  New  Romy The Cat's new Listening Room..  Won't be the last time he makes that trip!...  Audio Discussions  Forum     478  3911401  03-28-2010
  »  New  The remarkable moments in Audio...  Got it...  Audio Discussions  Forum     16  93675  12-20-2017
  »  New  Wilson Audio Setup Procedure (W.A.S.P.)..  Wilson Audio Setup Procedure (W.A.S.P.)...  Playback Listening  Forum     0  13253  01-29-2020
  »  New  Dpols?..  Who knows.......  Playback Listening  Forum     11  62024  07-16-2020
  »  New  High-End Audio, DPoLS - a notch up...  My Story...  Playback Listening  Forum     3  13435  12-03-2024
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