GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site - Technical issues with pp+2000

07-17-2015

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1376
Post ID:	21776
Reply to:	21775

BIG Batteries

Well, these particular batteries power heavy cars that haul ass for significant distances. Such truly large capacity batteries give us more options for powering audio components. Right now I only feed straight DC to my little DAC; but if I thought I had the "headroom" I'd take another look at the rest of my components. Yes, we will have to re-think the circuit layouts to get off the initial AC. But it shouldn't be too difficult to go with DC, once "enough" of it is available.

Paul S

07-17-2015

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drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #:	1377
Post ID:	21777
Reply to:	21775

Tesla home battery effects for audio input

Romy the Cat wrote:
the “sound” of these oscillators/inverters is something that describes the sound of electricity. Tesla for sure would make great batteries but I do not think that they would case to make oscillators “good for sound”.

I think there should be two points to consider.

First, it may be more important to have a consistent waveform, which can be regenerated from the Tesla battery. If we have a consistent waveform, then we have something to work with to be able to refine the audio system to match this from start to finish. The issue, as I see it, currently is that the electrical supply varies from day to day and moment to moment; and this creates the problems with the sound.

Second, if home battery systems are adopted in significant numbers, the pollution of the grid power by use-related fluctuation may decrease, and might leave a cleaner or more consistent waveform to give more "good electricity days."

Adrian

07-17-2015

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	1378
Post ID:	21778
Reply to:	21775

I am not optimistic.

drdna wrote:

First, it may be more important to have a consistent waveform, which can be regenerated from the Tesla battery. If we have a consistent waveform, then we have something to work with to be able to refine the audio system to match this from start to finish. The issue, as I see it, currently is that the electrical supply varies from day to day and moment to moment; and this creates the problems with the sound.

Second, if home battery systems are adopted in significant numbers, the pollution of the grid power by use-related fluctuation may decrease, and might leave a cleaner or more consistent waveform to give more "good electricity days."

Well, I am not so optimistic about the “more good electricity days”. Even in my town, relatedly northern town, the amount of solar planes on the roofs grow quote rapidly and with the growing of solar planes we have a grow of super noisy solar inverters, smart meters and the rest of crap.

Yes, I do think that if somebody like Tesla would do inverter then it will be done to a more professional and stable level then it was done but PP. However, who knows how it will sound? The APS make way more complex and super reliable re-generators then PP but they do not sound well. I have no explanation why….

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

07-20-2015

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david82
Posts 4
Joined on 07-21-2015

Post #:	1380
Post ID:	21785
Reply to:	2931

PurePower Canada stole my PurePower 2000...

PurePower Canada has officially earned the title of the single worst company I have ever had to deal with. They are either stunningly incompetent, or simply criminal. The degree of incompetence would have to be so great, though, as to be virtually impossible to believe, which makes me think the latter (they are criminals) is the more likely scenario. I can only conclude that they have knowingly stolen my PurePower 2000. I am writing this as a warning to others.

I purchased a PurePower 2000 many years ago and it worked fine, but I decided to sell it as I switched to a different power conditioning solution. I sold the unit to someone, and he claimed it would not work on battery backup. As my only explanation was that the batteries must have died, I ordered replacement batteries from PurePower to be shipped directly to the buyer at my expense. The batteries were never shipped. I repeatedly tried to contact PurePower, to no avail. Weeks went by, and the buyer filed a claim with PayPal and returned the unit to me.

At some point PurePower finally responded to my emails and apologized, offering to do a complete workup on the unit and replace the batteries. This was in May 2014. I (stupidly) shipped the unit to them then, and they have had it ever since (over a year).

I've called them approximately every week for the past 6-8 weeks. First, I should say that they hardly ever answer the phone, and if you think they're going to return a message or an email, good luck to you. When they do ultimately answer the phone, each time it's the same story -- they have the unit right there, it will ship "tomorrow", there was a delay because they didn't have the right packaging material / they were moving / the moon phase wasn't quite right / assorted other nonsense.

I can only conclude that they are simply never going to send it back to me.

At this point it's not about the money -- I just don't like being stolen from. I'm likely going to pursue legal action against them, even if it ends up costing me more in legal fees than the price of the unit.

in the meantime -- BEWARE.

Oh, and if you do some quick Googling of PurePower, you'll find that my experience is unfortunately not unique. How these people are still in business, I can't comprehend.

07-21-2015

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steverino
Posts 367
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #:	1385
Post ID:	21790
Reply to:	21785

Old vs Plus models

david82 wrote:

I purchased a PurePower 2000 many years ago and it worked fine, but I decided to sell it as I switched to a different power conditioning solution. I sold the unit to someone, and he claimed it would not work on battery backup. As my only explanation was that the batteries must have died, I ordered replacement batteries from PurePower to be shipped directly to the buyer at my expense. .

Your unit I assume is one of the older models; that is, not a Plus unit. I thought the battery unit for the older model was not identical to their current model since the size of the box has changed. So availability/production of the older batteries may be the issue. I don't know whether the new batteries can be modified to fit in the old units. I have been fearful of the battery dying in my older unit. Maybe someone here knows whether the battery specs are the same between Old and Plus units.

07-21-2015

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drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #:	1386
Post ID:	21791
Reply to:	21789

Purepower production delays

steverino wrote:
I am sure you are happy you eventually after years got a Purepower unit after they took yours and "misplaced" it. But if it wasn't for the constant harping on this sorry treatment by you, me and others in these threads who knows what would have happened.

Quite true. I hoped that after the positive reviews they got, they would increase production and cash reserves, eliminating the long delays. I guess not yet. Maybe instead of selling their company, they can hire someone who can improve scalability, quality control, and production speed.

Adrian

07-21-2015

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	1387
Post ID:	21792
Reply to:	21788

Congratulations.

drdna wrote:
I waited for years to get my PP3000, but they DID finally come through and deliver the product. It was worth the wait in terms of the sound quality improvement.

Adrian, I am very glad that your PP saga has succeeded. I do not know how to equate the pain of getting the PP with the benefits to own it “if” and “when” it properly functioning. It is ironic that when you get a properly functioning PP then you feel that this damp unit sound so good that whatever it was it was worth it. I agree that it shall not be this way but it is what it is and I do not think that anything will be changing in it. I own two PP+ units, one 3000 and one 2000, I do not need two but if one of them go down I am not willing to stay without it. I just wish it were more sound targeting class D regenerators out there in order we the customers had more choice.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

07-21-2015

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PurePower
Ayr, ON
Posts 44
Joined on 05-26-2009

Post #:	1388
Post ID:	21793
Reply to:	21791

Yes, please order your new PurePower for immediate delivery!

Hi Adrian,

There is a bit of a misconception, here. Please let me clear it up.

All North American 120 volt PurePower models including the 1500, 2000 and 3000, are available either from stock or with no more than a one week ship date and have been throughout 2015. I would be thrilled if someone reading this forum wants to test our delivery speed. Send me an order and you will have electricity as good as Romy's a week later.

It did take a long time for us to make good on promises to replace old Chinese made units with new + models when our production in Canada simply couldn't keep up and financial pressures made it hard to allocate enough "free" units to satisfy all those who deserved a new unit under warranty.

We still are operating with less capital than we would like - but our production volume and availability matches our current North American sales level.

If you needed a PurePower+ hv 230 volt unit, there were some hiccups this spring, but all our distributors in Europe and Asia do have stock in hand and have been delivering our products to consumers. Increased production of 230 volt units had already begun in June and shipments are flowing as we speak. All current back orders are scheduled for delivery before the end of August, so no one, even in Iran, need go without.

07-23-2015

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kodomo
Posts 69
Joined on 06-20-2015

Post #:	1390
Post ID:	21796
Reply to:	21793

Be vary!

here is my personal experience about 230volt units and european delivery dates:

I have bought from Purepower on 12th of March and paid in full and I was going to receive it in two parts, the main unit and the battery. FYI, I still haven't received the battery part. I was told they had units in stock in Poland and they will be sent within a week. I only received the main unit after about two months and better business bureau complaints. After receiving the first part I thought Mr. Janzen was actually telling the truth about all the delays and didn't press on legally. I think otherwise now. Mr. Richard Janzen is very good at creating excuses, that is my experience. This is also the experience of many others, as you can read them over internet. I have contacted a few of them, sadly a bit late.

It is very hard to get email replies too, especially after payments been made. I am sorry to say that they are not a company to trust upon delivery dates or customer relations. I have sent over 50 emails during these 4 and a half months and received a handful of excuses as replies.

I suggest, if you live by a dealer, just go and buy yourself!

About the delivery speed. I tried the delivery speed. It is over 4 and a half months now, so big words at forums do not mean a thing! I am still waiting for half of my product. For the last 1 month, Richard has been saying he will send it direct from Canada. He was telling me there is a problem with the Polish distributor, then he says its about the Polish DHL etc. He hasn't answered any of my emails when I reminded him about his promise of direct shipment from Canada. edit: I just got an email from Richard saying he will ship from Canada. I will write here if he ever does.

I have sent a complaint to Ministry of Government and Consumer Services Canada. I will follow it with a lawsuit if they can not resolve it.

I really wish they were a better company as they have a good product.

07-24-2015

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david82
Posts 4
Joined on 07-21-2015

Post #:	1391
Post ID:	21798
Reply to:	21793

Amazing

Incredible that you have the gall to post here, tout your delivery speed, and completely fail to acknowledge the surrounding posts from people saying that you have taken their money / their equipment, held it for an unreasonable amount of time, and won't give it back. You realize it makes you look worse -- it's one thing if you could plead ignorance about all of the complaints, but you can't -- instead, you're coming off as just callously indifferent!

In any case, I have registered the domains

purepoweraps.net
purepowerscam.com
purepowerfraud.com

where I intend to build out a comprehensive resource for people who have been burnt by your business practices, with the goal of joining forces to recover damages. It's quite rough now, but don't worry, I plan to invest some real time in this. Again, it's not about the money at this point, this will just be a new hobby for me.

07-24-2015

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steverino
Posts 367
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #:	1392
Post ID:	21799
Reply to:	21798

No credit

I can think of better hobbies but their actions are irritating or worse. I think part of the problem here is that PP is likely as dilatory in paying their suppliers. So they have to amass sufficient capital to pay for supplies 100% in advance before people ship to them the component parts. Since prices go down based on volume they wouldn't even be able to construct units on a one by one basis but have to wait until sufficient money is on hand to buy 10 of this part or 20 of that. The same problem may hamper repair of units that require parts to fix. To me the issue related to repair of existing units is as severe as the iffy delivery for newly purchased units. I would not dare send my unit back but would be forced to take it to a local repairer and pay for it out of pocket whether under warranty or not. Also I doubt very much whether older units constructed before the current Canada production started can be repaired/maintained by PP.

07-24-2015

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	1393
Post ID:	21801
Reply to:	21798

A rare occasion

David82,
It would be a rare occasion when I expend to an audio person who is angry regarding an audio manufacturer an inflammatory tip. I think if you read my site then you might hear my reasons.

I do understand and do sympathize with your reasons and causes. I am very glad that you will take over you’re a burden to proof something to somebody even if you know yourself that your battle will be wasted cause. Perhaps 15 years back I would be with you in the tranches but now I look at your enthusiasm and your registered domains with irony and sadness.

What is your objective in audio involvement? To get better Sound by means of better components? I think you might discover a more mobile objective. I personally feel that fight with PurePower is not in the books of a person who want to practice audio for right reason. Trust me the PurePower have punishing themselves very hard buy allow those types of relations with customer to flourish. Do you want to punish yourself investing a next few weeks, month or whatever to collect online the stink about PurePower? Well, I do not know the answer and it is for sure is your choice.

19 years back Micro-Seki took my $13K for a TT and run away with my money. I did not convert my live into vendetta against Micro. Yes, it is said that somebody treat you as shit and when your hard-learned money end up in the hands of thefts. However, here is where the borderline between PurePower and thefts is. The PurePower is not stealing your money they just painlessly slow to do anything. I heard many stories about PP and all of them had a rectification in the end. Look at the Adrian above – the poor man was waiting perhaps for 5 years…

Well, David, I do not trying to convince to do or not to do anything. I just am saying that what you proposed to do is not worth to do in my estimation. There are much more noble courses to fight unjustness at the Earth. Fighting Global Warming, Cancer, NRA or a Republicans Breading are way more lucrative applications of your energy then the stinky Canadian company with a hundred users around the world.

I know a transformer winder who take requirements, money and then hibernate for the next 1-2 years. He still has a LOT of work…. because his transformers are good. Who knows, perhaps in 5 year you get somehow a PP unit and after listening what it does to Sound you would say what many of us have said to ourselves: “Fuck it, it was worthy”.

Rgs, The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

07-25-2015

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Kishore
Posts 2
Joined on 07-25-2015

Post #:	1395
Post ID:	21804
Reply to:	21803

Add one more to the list

I used to empathize with Purepower folks- trying to make a rebound in the tough economy and about second chances/redemption... but moment you break trust or promise AFTER 4 years of wait- something is really screwed up.
Richard and Damien have been claiming I am top 3 or top 1 for getting PP+ unit and with this long wait agreed to offer upgrade for me as well. Great - but trail of broken promises and multiple follow up and phone calls - has been a bitter experience.

I have been incredibly patient with them- and I would have expected a basic courtesy of a call back or email reply back AFTER numerous promises to do so.. but NADA nothing.
Totally disappointed with the team- they say true character shows at time of crisis/difficulty- they have failed this litmus test.
regards,Kishore

07-26-2015

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drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #:	1396
Post ID:	21805
Reply to:	21804

Pure Power Needs to Be Honest

Well, I would just say that it is clear that the company cannot keep up with the demand. They prioritize certain orders to fulfill that will be most important to increase their business, in their opinion, such as reviewers and retailers. It's understandable.

Now let me point out that Tesla, the auto manufacturer, had similar issues on a grander scale. What they did was to provide an accurate timeline, and update customers regarding this, so everyone had appropriate expectations. If you go to the Tesla website now and want to buy a new Model X car, you can send a payment of $5000 USD, and they will contact you in "early 2016" with an update. You will probably get your car sometime in 2016.

Now Pure Power has a great product, and I think people will be just as willing to wait for it. The key here is that brothers Damian and Richard should just be honest! Sadly, they have adopted a habit of making promises they know they cannot keep, offering bonuses, upgrades, etc. They make deadlines for delivery that they know they can't fulfill, and this leads to angry, frustrated customers, because expectations are repeatedly disappointed.

Why not just be honest? This is what Tesla and all other successful companies do, so customers have appropriate expectations. Just tell the customers that there is a backlog, and they can expect delivery in spring 2016. Give them an update every so often. No disappointment. Pure Power needs to recognize and have confidence that customers will be willing to wait for their product: people aren't angry about the product, and they aren't angry about the delays either. They are angry about failed expectations.

Adrian

07-26-2015

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steverino
Posts 367
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #:	1397
Post ID:	21806
Reply to:	21805

Long history

Adrian,

Your Tesla comparison makes an unwarranted assumption. Tesla has professional management, an established supply chain and a stable production schedule. PP has none of that. It functions more as a sideline than a normal business. If people would picture them as grand artists who will paint the picture when they paint the picture, then that would be closer to the mark. They have been acting this way for a long while; it's just that someone else was assembling the units for them before the move back to Canada. The problem for them at this point is that if someone else develops even a comparable product let alone a better one, they are finished. There are any number of double conversion UPS devices at far lower prices on the market. The issue is that those are built for scientific / industrial use having uncertain enviro conditions (which require internal fans to protect them). Assuming a controlled room temperature ventilated environment would greatly simplify their design and with those companies manufacturing expertise could probably do a good job. So only if the market remains very small can PP stagger on. But then they will continue to lack the capital to hire some production expert as you suggested. But yes, more reality to their estimates would benefit them rather than hurt them more at this point.

07-28-2015

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decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 247
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #:	1398
Post ID:	21807
Reply to:	21806

It has already been done...

...by a company in the UK, as discussed here before.

http://www.powerinspired.com/ag-series-ac-regenerators-i-25.html

When it comes to amplifiers, those who conflate a topology (e.g. SET) with a particular implementation of it are rightly mocked here, yet for some reason the same standard is not extended to power conditioning devices. It may well be that PP's equipment is touched by god, but seems foolish to come to that conclusion without ever having heard the same fundamental design done by anyone else.

07-28-2015

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	1399
Post ID:	21808
Reply to:	21807

For sure it is a valid point but…

decoud wrote:
It may well be that PP's equipment is touched by god, but seems foolish to come to that conclusion without ever having heard the same fundamental design done by anyone else.

Decoud, for sure it is a valid point and there is absolutely no reason why similar in quality of sound D-class regenerator might become available somewhere else. Are you the one who would do testing? What I am saying that unless a regenerator meant to be used for high-end audio the company maker would not have the notion of in-home trail. So, there are zillion companies out there that do regenerators, are you the one who would buy all of them and test them for sound? I did tried 4 other similar devises and it was disaster. It was not that tat sound was better or worth but it was absolutely not usable. I have no idea what PP does differently, even though I do not insist that there is no companies out there which would do not do the same things differently and have great sounding regenerators… we just do not know about them.

What I am saying is following: There is infinite number of possibilities in class D regenerators and it is very possible that some of them sound great. The problem is that none of the other class D regenerators companies (that I know) market the product for audio use and insist that their regenerators do something to SOUND, not to electricity. I do not know how deliberate and cognizance this standing with PP, I do feel that to a great degree their units have great sound by accident even to them. Still, people like me do not buy stock of this R&D department but rather use the final products that turn out works great, if it works.

As, I told many time before I would be more than grateful if a company like PS Audio for instant stopped to do the crap that they do and move to class D regenerators. I spoke with Paul multiple times encouraging him in this direction but the guy ether deaf, or brain dead, or just has too much ego invested into his AB regenerators. Nevertheless, as the result it look like PP, with their operant very idiosyncratic PR image, are in my view reign supremely over competitors. If I did not have my regenerators as AC solution and if I heard what they can do then I would be one of those who trying to get my own unit. I do have a number of my close friends who trusted me audio judgment and who got PP for their own installations. The units had problems and PP acted absolutely ridicules with them. Ironically some of them is a heavy industry players and they could sell the PP like no tomorrow. All of them after dealing with PP refused to continue any relationship with the company insisting that “life is too short to deal with them”. I completely agree with them. However, all of it does not make the PP units to sound less interesting then they do (when they work properly). That is a said and in the same way encouraging truth.

Rgs, Romy the Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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