Markus wrote:

These speakers were not open baffle. I would agree with Mani's description of their sound, except for the 'edge' bit. That depended on where you were sitting/standing.

manisandher wrote:

Thanks for all the suggestions. As it happens, there were no exhibitors at the Flemings Hotel this year. But I did pop into the Stax stall before listening to anything else.

Markus wrote:

These speakers were not open baffle.

el`Ol wrote:

Weren't these speakers (at least in Germany) normally used built-in (infinite baffle situation)? And I don't like the word "open baffle" because it can mean anything. It reaches from quasi-IB like proposed by PHY-HP up to that more and more crazy constructions at diyaudio.com that need massive boosting over the largest part of the frequency range.

Joe Roberts wrote:

The Western Electric L-9 in Munich was/is an infinite baffle design. The 754B woofers are in a sealed enclosure with a front horn. There is no possibility of cancellation between front wave and back wave of speaker, so I wouldn't call it an "open baffle" in any way. Don't be fooled by the wings.

Joe Roberts wrote:

Most of all, the idea of bringing this old speaker was to get people thinking. It was a subversive plot.

el`Ol wrote:

In one point you win, obviously the speaker panels were not really infinite indeed. http://www.thomas-schick.com/Siemens.htm But when the frequency where the dipole acoustic short circuit "kicks in" is clearly below the Fs of the driver, everything "dipoly" that can happen are rear wall reflections with the wrong phase, and that danger is also reduced by huge baffles.

el`Ol wrote:

But when the frequency where the dipole acoustic short circuit "kicks in" is clearly below the Fs of the driver, everything "dipoly" that can happen are rear wall reflections with the wrong phase, and that danger is also reduced by huge baffles.

Mani, BTW, if Silbatone-pimping Joe Roberts showed up in here then it had to be the Aporia speakers with the  back-loaded single Manger were presented in the show. Why would Silbatone otherwise to drag to the show that  big and expensive mastodon from 1948?

http://www.romythecat.com/LatestPosts.aspx?ThreadID=9376

So, how the single-driver Aporia sounded back there? I am sure that Mr. Roberts would feel that Aporia was wonderful and will tell a story that after listing of them the entire contingent of Munich Philharmonic requested to rename their band to Sound Practicing Orchestra. Still, how Aporia Sound? Anything remotely positive?

el`Ol wrote:

The Hifi Deluxe was in the Le Meridien... Would have been interesting what you think about the Duevel (and whether you like the MBL top end for being omnidirectional only).

manisandher wrote:

I visited the room on six different occasions throughout Saturday and never once heard the Aporias playing. The reason that was being cited was that people wanted to listen to the WEs. Strange then that the Aporias should be there at all.

I do not know certainly how the Western Electric L-9 was made but I think it is not sealed enclosures. Some of the drivers of the period used the semi-transparent cloth enclosures that you, Joe, might recognized as sealed.

Joe Roberts wrote:

The L-9 enclosures were wood on all sides. Sealed box. No ambiguity here. Wings were common on theater speakers for mid-bass reinforcement. Plainly audible improvement on these and, for example, A-7/A-5 VOTs. It is equivalent to in-wall mounting down to a freq determined by the width of the extensions. There is no interference with MF and HF from the side baffles because those frequencies come out of the 60 degree horn on top of the cab, obviously.

That is a bold waste of speaker’s surface for a small result.

Unfortunately all, absolutely all with no exception speakers with open baffle (including with the “wings form mid-bass reinforcement”) suffer from the fact that the large vertical surfaces of their baffle flatten out the upper frequency.

The upper frequency starts to be fluffy and reminds a fur of wet animal. To “cure” it people inject more amplitude in HF, overloading the initially sub-sized horns. This is what many Morns call “vintage sound”. Ironical to demonstrate the problem is very simple – juts to toss a hairy blanket/carpet atop of large baffle. Of course then the blanket will cover the WE logo and then many audio “writers” will have no subjects to write….

Joe Roberts wrote:

Yeah, but plywood is cheap and the result is audibly noticeable. Baffle extensions were recommended for all of the Altec VOT cabinets too. Make a big improvement for cheap if you have the space. As the frequency decreases and output becomes more omnidirectional, the baffle provides a +3dB reinforcement like a close wall would. With 250hz around 5ft wavelength you can get a good mid-bass boost with a sheet of plywood.

Is not about the cost of plywood bit the placement cost if the speakers have this type wings. Sure, for monophonic films in 40s and multitude listeners in this it was not a problems but for contemporary stereophonic sound it make the speaker positioning very difficult if even possible as this type of speaks even in very large room would have very limited option to placed them in the room.

Joe Roberts wrote:

It is not "open baffle" and the upper frequencies come out of the horn which is above and apart from the baffle. 800hz crossover. Have another look at the picture. You are confusing this L-9 with some other topology, I think.

From the prospective I described above it is the "open baffle". Take any loudspeaker, even contemporary monitor and pace a 3 feet by 5 feet untreated board between them. Listed how that surface dry out sound and kill imaging. Do not call it "open baffle" if you would like to, call it “oversized baffle”.

Joe Roberts wrote:

That WE logo must be very powerful since at least 20 online show reports named this old junker "Best of Show"!  Most of the German forum threads have a few guys who thought it was the best thing there.

Ohl, here is the ultimate price! Are you one of the men who watch the Miss America shows? BTW, the fact that your German forums junkers find your WE as the Best of Show is not the indication of WE sound but the indication of level of the Show.

Joe Roberts wrote:

We were quick to remind everybody that this was a second-rate WE system but they didn't seem to care. To my ear it was a bit more "vintage sounding" than the field coil WE gear and it wasn't "perfection" but at least it had some soul, which most of the plastic speakers at the show lacked. Also, for many of the visitors this is the first time they heard a decent sized horn and that probably explains a lot of it. We are tempted to bring a theater-type system that is a step above the L-9 next year, since this was such a hit.

The fact that your Korean friends would like to expose the sound of this WE collection to public is not bad but there is concern of my in all of it as well. You and your friends are not in the business to facilitate better sound for the visitors but rather to build up publicity for audio yahoos. You might drag a few years some vintage gear to the show as some local folks did in the 2001-2002 in US but soon or later your Silbatone guys would need to build some kind of bridge between the hype you will be creating with your WE  and the current Silbatone production.  I do not see this bridge easy to build. Also, soon or later you will recognize that comments of online posters do not push sales figures. I wish your Silbatone people have enough perseverance and money to demo their WE gear with having any financial gratitude.