GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site - The defeat of Synopsis or a Sacrilege?

05-16-2010

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	26
Post ID:	13523
Reply to:	5323

The defeat of Synopsis or a Sacrilege?

I have a guy who sent me his digital cable. The guy committed the crime against humanity – he claims that his digital cable much overperforms my Synopsis cable. I feel that it is imposable but I am burning-in the new cable to give it a try. I do think that there is not a lot room for improvement over Synopsis if do not do tricks, so I am very curios to hear what the new cable might demonstrate.

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

05-16-2010

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	27
Post ID:	13526
Reply to:	13523

With the "New" Unit?

Romy, does this mean you got your tweaked Bidat back from John? I already posted about the most recent changes John made to my idat, and I mentioned in the course of that exposition that I would be open to trying some other cable.

I am still using the Synopsis, which I like primarily because it seems to ameliorate what I have always taken to be inherent flaws in digital sound. However, the "new" idat sounds different enough that I now wonder what it would sound like with other cable.

John recommended Moray James (sp?) cable, and I have assumed that J uses this cable when he "voices" the units he tweaks. This thought makes me curious.

I have some esoteric Japanese "studio" cable that I thought I would try again, but it turns out it is too short for my present configuration. Still, I will eventually try another cable, just to satisfy my curiousity.

Best regards,
Paul S

02-16-2013

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	29
Post ID:	19008
Reply to:	19006

A Problem With Synapse, or Synopsis?

Thank you, Telus. I will try to give this the consideration it deserves.

Which sets me to ponder the fact that the Belkin cable actually does "condense" the signal somewhat, while a single synapse is not much to go on, either...

Best regards,
Paul S

02-16-2013

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	31
Post ID:	19011
Reply to:	19009

One Is Not Enough [Apparently]

W, I tend to "hoard" more out of laziness and lack of focus than covetousness, intending "get rid of" surplus but never actually getting it done. And my Post-Depression Era upbringing ensures that I can NEVER simply throw anythig away! Also, I do try to keep "back-ups" for every conceivable "contingency", including cables. At this time, I am glad the Belkin was still lying there where I tossed it, because - who knows why - my Acoustic Revive cable just suddenly stopped working with my DAC. Say what???

Hard to say if it's the electricity (likely) or the Belkin, or both, but sound could be better, IMO; in fact, I need it to be better. If I replace the Belkin again, I'll get two replacement cables, and I'll send the Belkin your way.

Best regards,
Paul S

02-16-2013

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	32
Post ID:	19012
Reply to:	19011

OK, It Is What I Thought It Was

I just - finally - checked the Acoustic Revive cable for continuity, and both legs are good. So I took off the threaded sleeves that tighten the male jacks onto the females, and that was it - just as I've LONG suspected, but never bothered to verify, until now. Maybe someday I'll mill some extra length off the threaded sleeves, so I can use them per design again...

W, drop me a pm with your mailing address (again) and I'll send the Synosceros along to you.

Best regards,
Paul S

02-17-2013

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	34
Post ID:	19017
Reply to:	19016

Quick Comparison

Telus, briefly, in my system:

The Synapse is "good" because is ameliorates HF noise adroitly enough to make it "work" in some systems (probably most systems...), including my own before recent "upgrades" to my DAC opened the door to other options. For good and for ill, the Synapse is a deftly wielded broad brush.

By comparison, the Acoustic Revive (in my present system) offers a more "open" sound, along with more "parts" that make up the whole, and - in my present system - it does this without sounding srtrident or fatiguing. It does make poor CDs sound more like poor CDs, but the specifc causes are made apparent, as opposed to "homoginizining faults". For good and for ill, the AR offers "more" than the Synapse.

Fair warning: the AR was "too much" in my system before recent changes; that's why I used the Synapse.

If you read my posts about my digital front end (the Digi Redux thread), I express my low tolerance for "digital sound", and I am specific about it. It has only been in recent years that I have been able to accept/integrate digital "extras" without being driven out of the room. The AR cable is now part of this system-specific, incremental change.

Best regards,
Paul S

02-23-2013

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	36
Post ID:	19038
Reply to:	19018

What do you mean, "16/44 Hardness"?

Telus, I did not complain of "16/44" or of "hardness" but of a range of problems with digital sound I've experienced. I have also whined loudly about SACD in other threads. My present digital system is my best attempt to get as much Music with as few problems as I know how to do. And I still get less Music and more problems from digital than I get from LPs. Of course, I am ever hopeful (and always fishing) to discover something good that I've overlooked. By all means, if you know of digital systems that deliver lots of Music and get around the problems I complain of, please share your experience. You may have notice that I recently went fishing (again) about high sampling rates and "oversampling". Your own remarks connecting "16/44" and "hardness" make me wonder how you've improved on this?

Best regards,
Paul S

02-23-2013

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tuga

Posts 174
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #:	37
Post ID:	19039
Reply to:	19038

"Range of problems" in digital sound?

Paul S wrote:
Telus, I did not complain of "16/44" or of "hardness" but of a range of problems with digital sound I've experienced. I have also whined loudly about SACD in other threads. My present digital system is my best attempt to get as much Music with as few problems as I know how to do. And I still get less Music and more problems from digital than I get from LPs. Of course, I am ever hopeful (and always fishing) to discover something good that I've overlooked. By all means, if you know of digital systems that deliver lots of Music and get around the problems I complain of, please share your experience. You may have notice that I recently went fishing (again) about high sampling rates and "oversampling". Your own remarks connecting "16/44" and "hardness" make me wonder how you've improved on this?

Best regards,
Paul S

Hello Paul,

Could you elaborate a bit on the "range of problems" you identify in digital sound?I am quite happy with a modified (by a third party) late 80s 18bit 4x oversampling redbook player. It's "rich", "relaxed" sound is both "soft" and "powerful" with very good information retrieval...in sum it's dynamic and apparently quite transparent, at least from where I stand (we all have different references and levels of expectations).Since some recordings sound more "credible" than others I would point my finger at mastering and recording technique (mic choice and positioning) for probable causes of bad digital sound.And these problems can also arise with high resolution files.

I have listened to and analyzed a few HR files and while some were nothing more than uprezzed 16/44,1s, hardly any exceed 14bit of DR. I am inclined to believe that the real differences come from different mastering...From what I have come to understand, while 16/44,1 is insuficient at the recording stage it is suitable for domestic reproduction (though many in the industry put the ideal sampling rate at around 60kHz and I can understand their reasoning).

Cheers,
Ric

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes

02-23-2013

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Telus
Posts 10
Joined on 08-05-2006

Post #:	38
Post ID:	19045
Reply to:	19038

"Hard" to say

Paul S wrote:
You may have notice that I recently went fishing (again) about high sampling rates and "oversampling". Your own remarks connecting "16/44" and "hardness" make me wonder how you've improved on this?

Paul, the only constant I've found is that if a digital source claims to "upsample" to 24/96 or beyond, it is a P.O.S. Moreover, if that source has the ability to defeat this "upsampling," it always sounds best in the off position.

I haven't "improved" on this hardness, I've just learned to live with it. Certain component combinations, cabling choices, etc., can reduce one's perception of it, but that's merely a case of treating the symptom, not the disease.

02-23-2013

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	39
Post ID:	19046
Reply to:	19045

After All, This is a Digital Cable Thread

Sounds like your non-cable digital experience is similar to mine. My own transport is "1st generation", non-oversampling for a targeted reason, as is my DAC.

Back to cable:
I'd bet that many people would regard the Synapse cable as a "simple solution" and/or a relief.

The Single Strand Cu Acoustic Revive can bring "more" without ruining the Music if typical digital problems are "dealt with" in other ways.

Best regards,
Paul S

10-05-2016

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Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 347
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #:	40
Post ID:	22805
Reply to:	19046

AR Cable

Paul S wrote:

Sounds like your non-cable digital experience is similar to mine. My own transport is "1st generation", non-oversampling for a targeted reason, as is my DAC.

Back to cable:
I'd bet that many people would regard the Synapse cable as a "simple solution" and/or a relief.

The Single Strand Cu Acoustic Revive can bring "more" without ruining the Music if typical digital problems are "dealt with" in other ways.

Best regards,
Paul S

Paul
i did not listened to Acoustic Revive S/PDIF cable but their USB cable was not good. even 4$ hp cable was better in dynamic.
it seems usb cables structure is the same as AES/EBU. both are twisted but with different impedance.
it seems solid core copper usb (and AES/EBU) cables are theoretically good but i am not sure about acoustic revive.

it seems finding good digital cable is a boring task. i am spending some money for testing some of them, all are over 1000$ but all disappoint me.
all small company terminate digital cables by hand. my purist anniversary USB Cable 1500$ is terminated by hand to a chip l-com connector and it's sound is compress.
i guess many audio company use 50 ohm cables not 75 ohm for S/PDIF.

i am searching machine terminated solidcore true 75 ohm cables

www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir

10-05-2016

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	41
Post ID:	22806
Reply to:	22805

Crossing the Same River Twice

Amir:
I have not thought much about S/PDIF cable for a while, and I have not thought "seriously" about other digital cable formats at all, since I have no interest in a "digital server", except - maybe - something portable (and cheap). If Acoustic Revive is like other companies that sell a few items, then they will have changed them at some point, for some reason, since I got mine. I still like the idea of a single wire for signal, but - of course - there's no substitute for trying them out in your system with your music. I have no experience with server cable to share, apart from the Nordost demonstration I heard at THE SHOW, Newport, 2016, when the benefits of the "upgrades" were obvious to everyone in the room. I did report this in the Industry News section.

Best regards,
Paul S

07-01-2019

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Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 347
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #:	42
Post ID:	25499
Reply to:	22806

I am looking for SPDIF Cable better than Purist Annivesary

We have no access to Belkin Synopsis SPDIF cable (Romy use it in his system) and we are not sure how new Kharma digital cables sounds? we had a test between two Purist Digital cables . Purist Anniversary 4600$ and Purist Neptune 1500$ SPDIF Cable. The difference was huge and we can not believe it. the Neptune cable has problem in bass , pace timing and the dynamic was compress. the Anniversary was so much better but i guess it could be even better.

the transport was CEC and the DAC was AMR DP-777.

I think we should look for even better cable than purist anniversary.

kharma and Kubala-Sosna Elation and U-byte (http://ar-t.co/ubyte.html) and Lessloss are in my short list .

Do you have any idea? can you recommend a good cable?

www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir

07-01-2019

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	43
Post ID:	25500
Reply to:	25499

A Moving Target

Amir, it is funny to hear that you like $4,600 Purist but would prefer $10 Belkin SPDIF. The Synapse is basically an effective low pass filter, albeit this seems to help many systems. Like I said up the thread, I have not concerned myself with SPDIF cable for quite a while, but if I started looking again I would start with the assumption that I am as likely to find something acceptable that costs a good deal less than Purist or other "high end" cables. Again, finding good sounding cable is one very time consuming thing. Finding good sounding cable that stays that way is something else, since most cables change over time. Again, the "manufacturers" are always changing their cables, for one reason or another, sometimes without telling anyone, so when you find acceptable cables, I recommend you hang on to them.

Best regards,
Paul S

07-01-2019

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	44
Post ID:	25501
Reply to:	25500

"The Same Cable"

Amir, here is a link to "the same" (same appearance, "specs" and information) SPDIF cable I got years ago (for maybe $200). It replaced the Belkin Synapse after the last round of "factory upgrades" to my iDAT DAC. Prior to those DAC "upgrades", I preferred the Belkin in my system, as the HF filter helped a lot. I already talked about this, up the thread.

YMMV, of course... it's your system.

https://www.thecableco.com/cables/digital-cables/digital-spdif/single-core-digital-rca.html

Best regards,
Paul S

07-02-2019

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Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 347
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #:	45
Post ID:	25502
Reply to:	25501

High price does not mean good sound to me

Paul Thank you for link
I never find Romy solutions useless to me and i believe those 10$ Belkin cables may be even better than 4600$ Purist cable. I think Purist Analog Cables Like AC Cable, Interconnect and speaker cables are good but their Neptune digital cable is not perfect. we have some comparison between three speaker cable of purist design : first Neptune Second Dominus and third Anniversary and all of them were good but the digital cables of Purist may not be the Ultimate Solution.

high price does not mean good sound to me.
I will test Acoustic Revive but i doubt it be ok

www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir

07-02-2019

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Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 178
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #:	46
Post ID:	25503
Reply to:	25502

You are always compensating for something

In regular off the shelf hi-fi system , be it a total lack of LF in your speakers or the "pinch" of dome tweeters or the midrange mud. Romy like all of us throws money on the problem and he usually chooses well regarded and expensive solutions. The part where he differs is that he is honest and can justify his choices unlike most of the turkey necks in this hobby. Did you try Kondo or An UK silver wire in your Living Voice based system (and yes the digital IC too) or went straight into what Roman is using i.e Purist Audio? I also have Living Voice auditorium boxes (Avatar 2) and the work reasonably well (and "beautifull" ) with higher level audio note silver wire. They were designed using that wire.All the best . W

07-04-2019

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Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 347
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #:	47
Post ID:	25504
Reply to:	25503

Gryphon Trident 3way EAR 861 Amplifier AMR DP-777 CEC TL1

Wojtek wrote:
In regular off the shelf hi-fi system , be it a total lack of LF in your speakers or the "pinch" of dome tweeters or the midrange mud. Romy like all of us throws money on the problem and he usually chooses well regarded and expensive solutions. The part where he differs is that he is honest and can justify his choices unlike most of the turkey necks in this hobby. Did you try Kondo or An UK silver wire in your Living Voice based system (and yes the digital IC too) or went straight into what Roman is using i.e Purist Audio? I also have Living Voice auditorium boxes (Avatar 2) and the work reasonably well (and "beautifull" ) with higher level audio note silver wire. They were designed using that wire.All the best . W

we tested digital cables in the System of my Friend: Gryphon Trident 3way Loudspeaker (Active Bass)
EAR 861 Power Amplifier 30w Push Pull
AMR DP-777 DAC CEC TL1 Transport Pure Power 3000 AC Regenarator
I think Gryphon Trident is big Filter and it can not give us good sound and i know EAR 861 is not Perfect but the difference of Cables was clear in this system.

about your question , i will try Audio Note UK Digital Cable . I do not use Romy components (Like Purist Cable or CEC or Pure Power) without listen to them but we have found very good result from Romy Components Like CEC TL0 or Pure Power or Purist Cables.
I am ordering Audio Note UK Components for my System in the future (M8 Pre Sig, TT2 Turntable , Kegon 300b , AN/E Loudspeaker ). Audio Note UK is my favorite Sound, I really Like Their Components.

www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir

07-05-2019

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Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 347
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #:	48
Post ID:	25505
Reply to:	25504

4 Link Connection vs Neptune vs Anniversary

we replaced the AMR DP-777 DAC with New CEC DA 3.0 DAC (30k$) to test between three digital cables because we could not believe digital cables could have huge difference .The connection between CEC TL 1 and CEC DA 3.0 could be 4 Link (clock data ... they call it Superlink) and we used 4 purist genesis BNC cables for it.Two other connections were Purist Neptune SPDIF coax and Purist Anniversary SPDIF coax cable.

We tested these three cables : 4 link Genesis 1.2m , neptune spdif 1.5m , anniversary spdif 1.5m .

Generally the 4 link connection seems alittle better than Spdif but difference was not important to me .The Neptune SPDIF and 4 Link Genesis both sounds bad and lifeless in comparison by Anniversary Spdif . the neptune had no control on bass and the flow of music was bad . the mid/high was distorted with purist neptune. the 4 Link purist genesis had better control but it was lifeless without body . The purist anniversary was very good.

You can not believe it but the digital cable between CEC TL1 and CEC DA 3.0 make very huge difference.

Could you tell me why there is huge difference between digital cables?

Should we choose longer than 2.5m digital cable for better result?

Do you think other Transports are less sensitive to Digital Cables?

www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir

07-06-2019

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	49
Post ID:	25506
Reply to:	25505

Cable "Issues"

Something fun to think about is that the length of this sort of cable can change the sound, due to internal "reflections", this sort of thing. I've read a lot about it, as it affects the "communications industry", and laboratories, and it gives me headaches. Another thing is the cable's inherent shielding and grounding scheme, and how this works (or doesn't work) with your system, including the "electromagnetic environment" the cable operates in. As an example, I will cite again the - apparently - troublesome run from my phono cartridge step-up transformer to the phono stage. I simply can't use my "best sounding" cables for that run; hum and noise get into the gain path. Only some "normal looking" Placette cables keep the noise out, with the net effect being they "sound better" overall in that run than other cables that "sound better" apart from the noise. What I'm saying is, it's a PITA looking for "better sounding" cable because of all the "other issues" that can make a particular cable sound better in one situation and worse in another one, or a different length of "the same" cable might sound better or worse in a given situation. Also, tough to swallow the price of your current favorite; but I suppose if it "works best" in your particular situation, and it gives you the peace of mind to stop looking, that's worth something, in and of itself.

Not sure, but I thought Romy replaced his Belkin Synapse at some point, years ago. Whatever, that cable is a filter, no two ways about it, and it is a great example of what I'm saying about the "sound of cables", such as we are able to determine, such as we find it useful to know. One thing for sure, pretty much ALL the connectors are crap, no matter the price of the cable.

Paul S

07-08-2019

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Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 347
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #:	50
Post ID:	25508
Reply to:	25506

Cable

Paul yes , for reflection of waves the cable length is important , Art U-Byte cable is 2.5m and they do not make under 2.5m cable. the BNC connectors are 75 ohm but most company use RCA connectors. i know about them but my test proved me cable length or bnc vs rca will not make huge difference.
check below : http://ar-t.co/ubyte.html

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