RF at Ona, had touched the same subject very reasonably, you might read my reply to him where I elaborated with my status of my ground.

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=4487

Above, talking about APS-like regenerators, I was skeptically referred to the battery back up functionality in the APS PurePower, calling it bogus and completely unnecessary. It was very funny to read at the APS site as the APS guys promote their units as something that will work with a complete power outages… Who the hell cares?!!!!

However, thinking again I have realized that the presents of the plumbum rechargeable battery is one of the greatest functionally of the APS-type regenerators. When the voltages is rectified and converted to DC then the presents of that ultra low impedance lead accumulator act as a perfect buffer and a perfect regulator. I do not know if APS unit has any regulator at output line. Any regulator I have seen etas dynamic and I hope the APS unit do not have explicit high-voltage regulator (at least it sounds as it has not). However, the unit does outputs a stabilized voltage… So, what I think that APS devise does, is regulating or stabilizing the 12V before it charges the battery and then take the stable battery voltage to the regenerators,  since it uses a plumbum battery is has no problem to sit all time under excessive voltage… (As Dima educated to me)

Also, that battery acts as a very cool natural filter to swallow the after-rectifier ripples. Still, it would be very interesting to see how the quietly of that DC that sits before the regenerator might affect the output result (sound). If I had a APS-type regenerator available to play with I would put on the 12V side, parallel to the battery, a huge 12V automobile-capacitor of 5-7 Farads. This sucker should “burn” anything in the line- ripples, residual harmonics, noises and will give insultingly flat DC - I just hope the rectifiers might change this moister…

Anyhow, as I can see now the presents of that lead battery is very essential and hugely important part of the double conversion type regenerator. I hope the APS people explain it at their web site instead of bogusly stressing that this unit will to work during power outages.  If I have a power outage then I have no air-conditioners - with all my 6C33C running to have no air-conditioners would be MUCH more deadly harm for my listening room then juts bad electricity…

So, I did not get it from beginning: the battery buffer in double converters is good, very-very good and useful thing…

As they told, the APS UPS unit was sent back to the manufacturer where it was exposed to further thorough retesting. Preliminary the results of re- testing turned out to be very contradictive with that results that I got in mine listening room, and the were posted above.  The measurements of the APS people indicates that the unit goes maintains right sinusoid profile with increase power, furthermore it does maintain the wave profile and low-level distortions (under 2.4) even when it drives and heavy reactive load. The APS people have sent me the current, voltage and distortions measurements under different load and into the different type of load. It looks pretty good, well, MUCH better then what I had.  I do not post them as they are not my property but next time I talk to APS I might ask their permission and might post the measurements images here (though they use digital meters and I hardly can look at them). Anyhow, the APS people and I have some MUTUALLY AGREEABLE BOGUS EXPLANATIONS what might be cause of the discrepancies between my measurements as their measurements (some changes in the unit state) but we still have no clear picture.

I kind of like that APS stay behind of their regenerator and that they are trying investigate what went wrong. Who knows, perhaps when the APS unit arrive back to me (after some changes in the unit state) it will be effective (means good sounding) at 70-80% of load as much as it was at 10%... If it happens then I might have a phenomenal solution for my powerlines frustrations.  I will be posting later but so far my tail is still trembling….

Lately, I have received a number of inquiries from visitors of my site, asking me various questions about power regenerators. The sad irony is that those people do not ask the questions which might be asked about the subject a bought rather they are looking for consultation about purchasing decisions. I said it before many many times and I am repeating it now: please do not bother me asking advice what to buy if you are clueless WHY you buy it. To make the case very simple I would like to assure you that I do not care about you or your purchasing actions, and what is the more important the motivations which made you to create those questions to begin with if you have no own rational what you do.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=4565

Regarding the subject of power lines. If you are experiencing problems with electricity (by the way most of audio people do not big acknowledge this problem or not exactly identify it) then there are at large number of solutions available for your exploration. There are at least a dozen of audio companies that manufacture different type of devices to attack the problem. There are also and number of commercial manufactures which manufacture different type of the power handling solution which might be greatly adopted for your applications.  In order to decide which one will working in your case you need a CLEAR IDENTIFICATION of the problems that you would like to attack.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=432

I do not give a shit to the stupid e-mails asking me what to buy and that are listing the equipment that you have collected. Audio solutions address audio problems not audio of frustrations.  If you have audio problems then identify them and address them, if you have audio frustrations than see a psychologist - buy audio publication. At least if you need at psychiatrist then you have no needs to send me audio specific questions.

Romy the Cat wrote:

I kind of like that APS stay behind of their regenerator and that they are trying investigate what went wrong. Who knows, perhaps when the APS unit arrive back to me (after some changes in the unit state) it will be effective (means good sounding) at 70-80% of load as much as it was at 10%... If it happens then I might have a phenomenal solution for my powerlines frustrations.  I will be posting later but so far my tail is still trembling….

The next image is the resistance load replaced with 258W of Super Melquiades. Old 4 power supplies are input chokes and all of them properly implemented with voltage in each half-period returning back to zero. As far as I concern it looks extremely good, without even phase shift between voltages and current.

Interestingly that when I asked Dima look at the measurement then he informed me that the Melquiades load should be even easier for any regenerator then purely resistive load, as Melquiades does not have even sinusoidal draw of current but rather the circles was vertically folding walls - that according to him is the most optimal load ever. Also it was interesting is that looking at the picture he told lots about the performance of my input choke filters, which according to him where “properly implemented and functioning”. It was very educational lecture…

Some you might be concerned by clipping of the current peaks. Do not be. These clippings are because I drive the thing directly from power lines and as you can see the voltage is clipped. Below are two images Voltage vs. Current when I drive my Melquiades by PS Audio regenerators (that outputs a perfect sinusoid). As you can see the Current characteristic and Power Factor are exemplary. Long live to the input chokes….

Okay, now I see I'm ready to experience what the “revised” APS PurePower will do. BTW,just  for references: here are power factor signatures some other my components that us CRC filtration.

I have to admit that my first unsuccessful experiment with APS PurePower regenerator made me anxious like hell. In context of the none-loaded unit I’ve heard some results that I was searching for a long time. The APS claim that they have “fixed” it and claim that now this unit will deliver at full load the same quality as I heard at 10% load. If it be true then it will be not just exciting but the “Fucking Exciting!” as it would conclude my many years quest to resolve electricity problems and will address something about which I hold a large white flag for years.

The unit should arrive on Friday and I am so atypically “frantic” to get it that I even made the special arrangement for deliver in order to get it on Friday. God, is it possible that this damn regenerator will work properly and that I will never have bad electricity again? Ok, let do not temp the fate…

Anyhow, one point I would like to mention, still. The APS reported that they did not “fix” the unit (juts replaced the buttery) and it worked perfectly fine during their tests; they sent me the measuring data and it did look good. If it is so (and who know the truth), then the most probable reason for my negative experience APS proposed that some of the contacts in the unit’s board was not correctly functioning and it inflicted the APS’ processor that run their software. Well, it is not a good thing but, hey - it happens! I have no problems with the fact that it happened, however I have a BIG problem with the fact that the PurePower’s start-up initialization routines did not detected that something was wrong with the unit’s output.

You see, the distortions problem that I experienced screw up sound very severely BUT the unit keep functioning. It is VERY-VERY bad. I did not measure the distortion at that time but looking at the very strongly corrupted wave it was in tens percents and I would very much prefer that the unit shun itself down (or alarm me). If the unit does not do it then what the purpose of it? If tomorrow my Cat decided to jump on the unit or if I move the unit and as a result some kind of internal board will not have a good contact again and then how will I learn about it. Sure, my Sound will go to toilet but how much time should I spend in order to detect that my power regenerator decided to show some attitude? If something is objectively wrong with output then the regenerator should alert about it. I intend to run my distortion analyzer and scope parallel with output, but I am not willing to do it the long run. From this perspective the PS Audio built-in distortion reader is useful, I juts hope the PS Audio regenerator sound also in a useful way…

Well, the distortions reader is completely unnecessary and the regular threshold alarm if the distortions went over, I would say, 3% will perfectly do for me. I personally, being a nerdy freak, would love to see the real-time wave monitoring and in the today’s world it would take $10 to implement….

Well, let wait Friday and see if all my “while I am I anxiously expecting” comments were worthy… What I know is that since I heard what the APS did with electricity that drove my front-end I was hardly listening my “big” playback (the electricity is horrible here for weeks)… So, I am Audio-wise kind of in my “summer mode”…

And so.....

Is the APS now
"up to scratch" ?

jd*

After a few days of playing with DHL the “hide and seek” game I eventually will be getting today the “new” APS PurePower unit. It is not the new unit but the unit that I had, presumably fixed and according to APS this time it should function as they intended. As I told I am very eager to see what will happen.

When I get the unit tonight I am planning to perform the initial QA, re-measure what this regenerator output. If I have time I will make some shots and upload them here. If everything will be without any red flags then I will listening it tomorrow and closer to the end of the week I will able to make Sonnic conclusions and perhabs compile them into some kind of observations. I hope whatever APS did with this unit fixed the problem and did not affect Sound-influential properties in any negative way. I really wish this thing works and despite of some negative experiences with the unit (do not work under load) so far I still have good feeling about the entire endeavor, as it have been proven that this topology of regenerators could be very “good for sound”.

To all of you who expressed interest about my electricity saga generally and about APS in particularly. I have still no result with PurePower regenerator. I got the “fixed” unit but I did not listen it as the unit presented a result that requires further interpretation, investigation and perhaps modification. I am wiling to keep it in a way cryptic and hesitant as it is exactly how I feel at this point. Still considering the sound that I heard form the unit when it drove my front-end I am still working with APS in order to get out of this regenerator what we feel it capable of and what it should do. I think the next stage of “investigation” will take for a while and I will have a testable unit within a month. Anyhow, here is how I feel about my APS regenerator so far:

Last couple days, while the APS people are cooking a new version of their regenerator, friends of mine helped me to discover a new type regenerator. It does not use neither class AB nor class D amplifiers, still outputs brand new harmonically clean, perfect sine wave with over 90% efficiency.  I have my motivations at this point do not divulge the topology or make of the regenerator and would call it the Regenerator X.

I did not have a lot of time or intention to play with it but the 1.5kW Regenerator X had no problems to drive all my front end to and in all my power amplification, it has limitless current draw. The voltage and frequency are perfectly stabilized… the sinusoid, however, is screwed when it derived all my system.

Sonically, it is not too apocalyptic, but still it is very far where I would like it to be. It does slightly compressed dynamic, it does slightly soften bass, it remove noise, it injects some very minor strange dirt in the sound and it make music slightly less recognizable – I am not kidding!!! So, it is in away do sound apocalyptic and I would prefer to drive the system from the wall.  Still, as Russians say; with no fish a crab could be considered a fish, and perhaps I just lower my demand for all those power toys…

Anyhow, the Regenerator X does not sound even remotely close to what the damn APS did with my front end… and therefore it looks that it is time to pass on the Regenerator X…

So you were, after all, "the first one to send it back" (ie, the APS)?

and you must have already heard:  You are the only one to have a problem with it; we never had this problem before; we checked it twice and it checks out fine, here; are you sure there isn't something wrong with your system/hearing/thought processes ...
 
Did I leave out anything?

But now they're cooking up the "Romy" model?

How cool is that?!

Celebrity has its perks.

Best regards,
Paul S


PS: How much extra for "Romy model"? ;.)

Ok, it does not have a direct relation to the quality of electricity but I think you might like this little toy, as it is very useful during our electricity straggling. It is very small device that plugs pass-through to your load and this device:

1)      Fuse 15A
2)      Shows Voltage with .1 precision.
3)      Shows Current with 0.01 precision.
4)      Shows Power in W and VA
5)      Shows Frequency with 0.1 precision.
6)      Show Power Factor with 0.01 precision.
7)      Calculates consumption… that was something that I did not I care.

What is very remarkable about this little piece is that it shows everything VERY accurately, I tested it. Also and it is remarkable convenient to use. It is relatively fast refreshing and it is possible even to see the peak current/voltage draw…

OK, here is the punch line: this little gismo costs $21 – long live the Republic of China! I am sure that tomorrow some kind of audio-writing whore will change the label on the “Kill-A-Watt” to “Perfect Watt” and price from $21 to $399 and will write long sentences, convincing you that the “Perfect Watt” also “widen soundstage and increase resolution”. Until then you can get it for $21, not for sonic reasons (I never cared to listen it) but to get a cheap and very convenient power measuring tool.

Well,

another page of my saga with APS regenerator is turned. I got the updated APS unit. It kind of “works” as I redefined the definition of word “works”. Under normal circumstances I would walk away from it but there are some moments in my “bad electricity ceremony” that I would like to point out, not as much for others who keep asking me but primary for myself.

The first thing first: the APS PurePower unit does not work against power supplies that future input choke filters. The input choke filters are “current gyroscopes”, it run cruse current and it continues to run it even if the voltage drops at inputs. Inputs choke sort of sucks out current from the wall even if the voltage are crossing zero and has no amplitude. A wall can handle it with no problem, so the PS Audio Power Plant. The PurePower APS regenerator does not handle it. The situations when current draw supersedes voltage draw severely corrupt the APS’ output wave. Listening-wise, that sinusoid corruptions (or perhaps some other things) create truly apocalyptic Sound – probably the very worst that I ever heard from my playback.

I was trying to make the APS people to make their unit to be able to drive loads with input chokes. Probably my voice was sinking in the see of other APS customers - CLC power supplies – why should the APS even care? Their technician for moths was “too busy” to built a damn input choke filter and confirm the problem himself. Also, obviously the Chinese folks who design the unit do not give a damn about driving anything else then CLC power supplies… Very very said….

Well, I kind of have accepted the idea that I will not be able with this 1 kilowatt unit to drive my power amplifiers. I do not like it and it screws me up, as I used some toroidal transformers in new Melquiades revision and if I knew that APS PurePower will not be useable on my power amps then I would make a small air-gaps in my toroids in order to enable them to handle the power line’ DC components… I do not like but what can I do now…

It left me with a chose to return the unit or to keep it only for my front end:

ADC
24-bit DAC (Lavry)
3 phonostages
CD transport
16-bit DAC (Bidat)
Tuner
DAW
Preamp

Once again I can use it on my front-end but I can not use it with 2 of my phonostages as they have input chokes on plates and on filaments Sucks!!!

Now, I have to decide if it worth to me to keep $2.5K unit, the unit as geometrically large as PurePower is in order to drive with it “the only selected” 150W of my playback. It is certainly sounds absurdish and ridicules. The only problem in that ridiculousness is that when APS PurePower does works (that is not always happens BTW) and when it drives what it is willing to drive then the APS PurePower delivers the Sound that makes me willing to write a request to Pope asking him to canonize that damn regenerator. The sonic contribution of APS unit to my Preamp+ transport+DAC is exactly what I would expect from a perfect unit – it eliminates all that I do not like and keep what I value untouched. To be honest I have to tell that I did detect some APS own coloration at top octaves. I did not research this subject further as I feel that being able to custom-tailor top response with my MF and HF channels I will be able to set the final result as it should be.

So, where does it leave me?  Sending the PurePower back would be a reasonable solution but it will open a Pandora Box for searching among similar units. There are a lot of double-conversion “on-line” regenerators on market.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/PDF/UPS.pdf

For around $1000 it is possible to get APC unit with identical characteristics as the APS regenerator, or if to look at “smaller” names then those manufactures regenerators are available for ~$500. For $2K-$3K it possible to get a large 5kW-6kW unit, dump it in basement (it will be noisy) and to power everything from it. It would be necessary to slightly modify the commercial units (noise, alarms, etc) to accommodate them for audio application. However… This Pandora Box has a lot of negative points. Only God knows if other or more powerful units will be able to handle input choke supplies. It is also unknown if other regenerators will sound good – who know what is responsible in them for sound?  Also there is no assurance that other units with D-amps will not do the same when they are input-choke-loaded. And of course there is the major "obstacle" in this direction - my demand to have a properly performing regenerator has no desire to be frugal.

I really do not what to see myself trying other regenerator manufactures in order to save money. In fact trying different commercial regenerators and modifying them for home use will cost me more in terms of time and R&D. I would tell you something even more – if someone would offer me a devise that would address my frustrations with bad electricity, then knowing that I should not deal with it ever again…. I would pay even $10.000. Now juts would pay ….but gratefully pay!!!

The APS PurePower has problems as now. It no good for input chokes and it is very capricious even against the load that it does happen like.  ALL 3 APS generators that I tried performed differently and I found very alarming. The last time it happens with me what I had 3 identical new Equitech balanced transformer and each of them sound wrong but at the same time absolutely different from each other.  Two of my APS had own that made them semi-dysfunctional, including my current APS unit. I do not know if the Chinese manufacturing quality control should be blamed or anything else but the situation does not sound encouraging, even the APS Canada is wiling to address it.  However, the APS levels of performance when it does work properly leave no doubts that the end of the bad electricity tonal is reachable, and the APS results if not offer a perfect solution but point out the perfect direction.

As now, to get rid of the APS PurePower unit for me is to get rid is the only know to me solution that looks like does help against bad electricity. So, I will try keep using the APS PurePower for my frond-end and will be looking for other regulators to use with my power amps, or perhaps the APS will be able to resolve the problem as time goes by.

Romy the Cat wrote:

….when it drives what it is willing to drive then the APS PurePower delivers the Sound that makes me willing to write a request to Pope asking him to canonize that damn regenerator.

Romy the Cat wrote:

To be honest I have to tell that I did detect some APS own coloration at top octaves. I did not research this subject further

Romy the Cat wrote:

….Two of my APS had own that made them semi-dysfunctional, including my current APS unit…

Today I decided to look deeper into the abovementioned “APS’s own coloration at top octave”. I took some of my favorite mono recordings that I know well (one of my Super Milq is dissected) and was trying to played them. It was no go. It sounds incredibly wrong, superbly sharp, very obnoxious and with no bass. I was scratching by head thinking what the hell is going on. Believe me or not but the sound got fixed when I plugged my transport, DAC and preamp to … the wall instead of the APS regenerator.

OK, let to be honest about it, my unit runs now with experimental APS prototype main-board and output of this board has a problem, the problem that is objectively visible with simplistic measurement tools. The APS guys I agree that it is not right and have no problem to replace the board. I do not “incriminate” to the APS the defect with the prototype board – it happens, no biggy. However, the new prototype board incorporates also some updates that APS did with their unit and it  DOES make me VERY concerned. Does the sonic problem that I am experiencing derive from the specific defect that my prototype board has (highly likely) or those problems derive from the modifications that APS inflict to the unit? That is the big and VERY important question to which I have no answer as now.

I have to tell that before now, writing the post above, I did not spent any time to assess the sound of the unit as I was very much pissed about the “no input choke status”. It is important to note that the sharp sound of my current APS regenerator is very different from the “vintage” APS loaded into input choke – it was I was looking yesterday.  All, my positive comments about APS sounds were about the sonic results that I got from my initial APS regenerator, that one that I did listen. It would be very sad if the newest APS updates (I do not know if I am at liberty to say what they did) would have negative influence to sound. Perhaps then I could open a new chapter of my APS saga with a name “hunting for a vintage APS unit”… :-)

Anyhow, I hope that the problem is not with the updates (that might be reasonable in term of circuit operation) but with the objective defect that I have now and the all issues with Sound will go away when the defect goes away.

The PS Audio newsletter this month had the following:

"We already have a CD player and transport in the works and lots of ideas floating around about audio systems, video setups and new AC power products…..

Daydream a bit for me if you would and then head over to the PS forum.  I've started a new thread here: 

 http://boards.psaudio.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4775

and if you wouldn't mind, just jot down your dream system so we can all see.  I think it'd be instructive.  Plus, sky's the limit!"

I figured – "why not" and posted a reply:

http://boards.psaudio.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4775&p=32551#p32551

Paul S wrote:

What a relief! No matter how many times it happens, at some point I always wind up adjusting my system to compensate for bad electricity!

In impatient, ill-advised. manic efforts to "compensate" for the EFFECTS of bad power I have swapped ICs, used different output taps, re-configured grounds, swapped tubes, re-positioned speakers, adjusted VTA, messed with my BR ports.  And I'm sure there's more.

And it's funny, because I can at times get a superficial "improvement" of just the "area" of sound I'm after; yet no matter how much the sound changes it stays "wrong" with the bad electricity.

It strikes me as odd that the phono stage tends to lose the ability to make "music" even before it shows the typical overt signs of bad electricity.  I have at different times (and more than once) blamed this "silent killer" effect on my cartridge, cartridge leads, my tonearm set-up, the gain tubes, the PS, the ICs, and even my amps.

I had a stretch there when it was hot but I was still getting good phono sound on the weekends, and I was hopeful to the point of bragging about it that I had simply lucked into a combination that would get me through the summer.  Of course, it got even hotter, and that was the end of that "solution".

Yes, I have stupidly wasted many hours and even whole days trying to "fix" bad power effects indirectly.

If there is an actual remedy for the bad power, I haven't found it.

APS to the rescue?

Best regards,
Paul S

Romy the Cat wrote:

The AC factor? This is more complex. My last APS PurePower reregenerator (the fifth unit!!!) does quite amassing things but the reregenerator’s use is not as a straight forward as it might be expected. The PurePower is VERY idiosyncratic but if to treat it “properly” then it can do VERY interesting things. When I have time I will post my comments about the use of the APS unit in the appropriate thread.

Over the course of these six months many people asked me what I feel about the PurePower regenerator. I hardly told anything and frankly speaking I hardly felt anything. I did not have a properly performing unit until the last few days but instead I had a positive feeling of the unit’s performance during my initial exposure (back in June). Now I have an APS regenerator that operated at the very same level as my initial APS unit only this time I have opportunity to look deeper into Sound and into the way how the PurePower interacts with Sound.

The effect of PurePower has to Sound is VERY interesting and very dissimilar to any other know to me power devises. Considering that in one way or another tried most of available power lines treatment devises (hey., what do you know, I had one time 5 (Five!) PS Audio power plants!!!) I hope I have some reasoning behind my judgment. The effect of PurePower has to Sound is not only due to the factor of power regeneration. The PurePower unit is self-contained sound-inflicted and sound–creating active machinery and it should be treated this way. Not all PurePower regenerator’s qualities are beneficial, like anything else – PurePower has own characteristics that might be deliberately and creatively USED. When the right characteristics of the PurePower unit are used properly then the devise might be superbly effective.

So, I will showily dump in this thread some observations of mine about APS PurePower regenerator, the unit’s utilizations, and some my general overviews and speculations about the PurePower performance.  I think it is long due as there was no serious talk about this unit, a few reviews that where her and there were completely Moronic. Still the regenerator does express some sonic attitude that makes the “unit’s ways” worth serious conversation. Not the last factors is that from my point of view the APS people themselves are not exactly sure what they do and not exactly are familiar with sonic consequence of their devises – it might be useful as there are a lot of what I would like the APS unit were able to do in addition to what it does it does not do now.

Please do not pollute this thread and do not post your boring public considerations to buy or do to buy the APS devise – I personally and anyone else at this site not give a shit about your purchasing decisions: if you have an itch then do not waste time visiting Audio site but instead make an appointment to dermatologist..  The subject of this thread (as least how I would like it to continue) is a sonic impact of a power devise, in my case the PurePower picked my interest. If you have other ideas than, please, express them.

It might sound somehow cryptic at this point but I have no time to put my thought about APS unit in a continuing and “connected” essay. So, do not anticipate any “reviews”, for that go elsewhere. My look will be rather a set of atomic harrow glimpses into APS PurePower Sonic Performance...