Starboy,

looking at your reply in the Denon-103 thread, and considering that you are from UK, I conclude that you are well-familiar with Ortofones. Can you tell me more about them?

I never had them personally, I had in past a inexpensive Ortofone arm and it was horrible. That built up my revolt to Ortofones, completely non-justifiable, and I clearly understand it.

I never used Ortofone cartridges, though I head them many times in context on somebody’s else systems. However,  I did not like those “somebody’s else systems” and Sound they produced and therefore I would not say that had an opportunity to get a satisfactory presentation of what Ortofones could do.

Knowing about the  “better” Ortofones what I was able to detect while I heard them (do not believe that I can interpret and extrapolate a result with 100% of precision), looking at some data and listening the feedback of numerous Ortofone owners (very valuable factor if one knows how to listened and what to hear in the expressed) and correlating it with my own finds about the performance of the high output MC cartridges I have some guesses why Ortofones are so attractive out there. Perhaps I would even try to put one in my new “Chernobyl Spinnaker” tonearm….

I would like to learn more about the “better”  SPU Sound. So, Starboy, can you tell me more about your Ortofones?

Rsg,
Romy the Cat

Well, maybe a little cussing first to set the tone.

The older SPU's are now well sought after, many will end up in collections at now over inflated prices probably in the Far-East where they are worshipped. I've heard a few older SPU's and even those with the built in transformers and I must say that progress was most welcome. Too overblown for my liking.

Now the current crop available. Firstly demand will be low as an SME/Universal fit is required and most audiophiles have long moved on. Alas a few die-hards remain especially in the Land of the Rising Yen.

Ortofon SPU Royal N

The Royal N is the only model that can be used on any tone-arm and the sound is one of pure dynamics but without the top end extremes normally associated with. Yes, there is a ever so slight trade of in the bass but its not an everything equating to nothing sound like the 103. This animal hunts/tracks at 3 grams so boy it digs deep and with the fantastic Nude Ortofon Replicant 100 stylus it just seems to garnish info in a different way from those groove walls. The freq' range at -3db is 20-60,000 HZ (the lesser SPU's in the range only hit 18,000 - 40,000) and tracking is where she excels in spades.

Ortofon Spu Classic (Hot-Rodded)

Well this has been tweaked by the great late Australian Garrott Brothers and has a Weinz Paroc stylus (on their famed modified Decca's they were known as Garrott Micro-Scanner) This has the more traditional Spu sound being big, warm, musical and euphonic but the tweak has given the cartridge the ability to track better and so aid detail resolution. She was tested by Mr Per Windfeld (Chief Designer of Ortofon) and he was impressed with the tweak and its measurements. Yeah, she plays small combo jazz my preferred software with gusto at relaxed listening levels.

As you may have noticed from my previous 103 post I'm a transducer lover and life wouldn't be complete without these 2 SPU's in my stable. They do something to soothe the savage beast that I crave at times.

If you can demo one give it a go, especially the Royal N of which I am slightly biased naturally.

All the above IMHO

Regards all and increase the peace...

Starboy

p.s. Let me know if you want know more.

Associated equipment:

Turntable: Original Bill Firebaugh Well Tempered Classic: Tweaked Technics SL1210 [Don't knock it till you've heard it and perfect for getting drunk on good wine and playing tunes]

Amplification: Esoteric Audio Research 100 Watt 509 Valve Monoblocks with Mullard valves: Jean Hiraga Lectron JH50: Pioneer SA 810 60's/70's valve integarated.

Phonostage: Esoteric Audio Research 834P with volume pot:Mullard Military Spec' valves and silver power lead.

Speakers: Quad ESL57: Mag Audio Danish Full Range Ribbons. [Apogee Stylee] Rauna Leira MK2 concrete speakers made and designed by OPUS 3 recordings.

Interesting,

How much is what your appreciate in the SPU sound derives from the SPU’s high output. When we load out typical 60-65++ dB gain phonostages with high output 2-3mV cartridges then Sound is way more interesting.

I would not speculate if the thick wires in the coils, amount of the turns, different magnets and some other things are affecting the result but I feel defiantly that overloaded phonostage performs very different then properly loaded. Even if you take the primitive .25V Denon and plug it into 85db gain phonocorrector then it will do way better then a regular 60-65dB phonocorrector. Let presume that by making this observation I took care about all loading, arming and the rest of the things and let assume that I absolutely do not talking about noise.

So, by commenting about the “big” and warm” SPU sound… how much this “largeness” comes from the initial large voltage coming into the corrector, particularly in your case: the 834P loves a lot of input voltage?

When we use a low output needle, properly load it and introduce a lot of gain after phonostages then it always sounds thin, small and contra-warm. The cartridges warmth comes with the “gain arrogance”, or at least this is what I feel.

Anyhow, I am contemplating to get the SPU Mono needle… I just hesitant to do it because I would need a mono phonocorrector and I am too lazy to build it…

Thanks, Starboy
The Cat

Romy the Cat wrote:

How much is what your appreciate in the SPU sound derives from the SPU’s high output.

OK, I will try the SPU mono. I have some questions:

It comes in a headshell with SME bayonet. I really do not need it. Can I remove the cartridge and mount it on a normal “tow-holes from top” tonearm? If it is removable then what be the mass of the cartridge without the shell? Is SPU mono actually a true mono or it is a mono-strapped version of their stereo cartridges? SPU comes form “Stereo Pick Up” so, I wonder… When we cross-wire the stereo cartridges we cancel out the lateral modulations but still it would be nice do not have any of them to begin with….

Rgs,
The Cat

PS: Yes, they all are 2-3mv without built-in step-ups.

Methinks that Mr C is correct in that the SPU cannot be deconstructed as I asked the same question elsewhere and got shouted down.   :-(  But hey, maybe they were minor league rookies and some major playa has the answer....

By the way Mr C, the Spu you were treated too was tested by Mr P.W. and the output for this revised Garrott Classic came to 1.5 mv.

Regards

StarboY..... No idea but all the gear and a damn good ear...

And please Mr C hurry and make a working phonostage as I will be first in the queue for a demo. Hey, hows about a built in bad boy volume pot? You knows I'm a minimal animal.

I, after being sick and tired form the Denon 102 misery, got the Ortofon Mono needle. I was under impression that Ortofon Mono was true mono cartridge with one coil. However, when I opened it up to mount it’s insert on my “Chernobyl Spinnaker” tonearm I released that it has 4 output leads and that it is essential a stereo cartridge strapped in mono to cancel out the latitude reading. What the hell? I can do it myself without buying a dedicated needle! Dose anyone know if this thing even have an older conical shape of the tip? Did anyone dealt with this cartridge?

The pissed Cat

I even never thought about “damaging of stereo records” as there are other objectives to peruse mono cartridge.

Anyhow, I appreciate your help, Brain. I understand that White/Blue and Red/Green carry identical signal but it is not the question. The question that I had if those wires divide as the parallel feeds from one single coil or they come form two coils with electrically reversed polarity (like we do usually when you strap a stereo cartridge to play mono). This SPU does looks small and it does looks like it has one coil but you said “its coils rotated 45 degrees to reduces…” Theoretically in the Ortofon world SPU means "Stereo Pick-Up", so it sounds like my Mono cartridge is a regular stereo cartridge rewired in mono configuration. Frankly speaking I was under impression that Ortofon is curious company and if they suggested that thier cartridges are mono then it would have one single motor and from the Mono-times needle’s diameter. Apparently I extended too much credit to them… I have to look at this thing under a microscope. I hope they did not cheat with the spherical profile…

Rgs,
The caT

I have been running my new Ortofon SPU Mono cartridge and can’t figure out why SPU has such a strong positive reputation and why some SPU users when I ask them about Sound of those cartridge they roll up their eyes. Yes, it is all around fine cartridge but it has quite prominent upperbass with some yellowish tone. I asked Rony about this quality and he commented:

”As regards the upper-bass prominence in the Ortofon I think it exactly what people refer to as the 'spu sound'. It gives a fat violin or over-prominent left-hand on piano, even a super-presence to guitar (try Segovia) that is appealing to some.”

I would not suggest that this SPU glorified puffy-softness is something that is unpleasant. It’s pleasant, however, this idiosyncratic SPU presentation spreads ABSOLUTELY EQUALLY to ANY music and to ANY recording.

Whatever I spin:

Starker with Szeryng playing Brahms’s Double Concerto with Natick and Concertgebouw
Pablo Casals playing Bach’s Unaccompanied Suites
Piatigorsky playing Dvorak concerto with Munch and Boston
Rostropovich playing Haydn concerto with Britten and English Chamber
Du Pre playing Elgar’s concerto with Barbirolli and London
Casals playing Dvorak concerto with Szell and Czech Philarmonic…

…they all “sound” kind of the same. Well, not the REALY same, but this “SPU Sound” flavors all those performances and minimizes the uniqueness and idiosyncrasy of each improvisation. I do not know what those SPU lovers find so attractive in it but I do not think that I like it. Perhaps I do anything wrong with my SPU? Nope, do not get me wrong I do like my SPU mono cartridge – it has very valuable softness and nobility in sound but I wonder if that “largeness” in upperbass could be eliminated.

Interestingly that I have not problems with violin peaces and this slightly overly-reach bottom harmonics work remarkable well. Was playing juts now Francescatti with Ormandy/Phila performing Sarasate’s Zigeunerweisen and it sounded just phenomenal! However, as soon the cello group kicks in than it become too “recognizable”..

I understand why the listeners with boxed speakers or with open-baffles would love to fully employ this “SPU effect” (and patricianly the open-baffles guys whose not-damped drivers go to garbage disposal at upper bass) but how can I “use” this upper-bass beautification?

Anyhow, is it possible to lower this SPU’s upper-bass overfriendliness?

Thanks,
Romy the Cat

What impedance is the SPU working into? My recollection (10 years since I used one) is that it liked to see a very low impedance load. I would expect puffy, diffuse low frequencies if the impedance was too high.
 I do recall that it was a very 'musical' sounding cartridge but not that it had any obvious tonal imbalance. Mine had that big horrible headshell removed and a small aluminium 2 hole mounting plate fitted which may have helped. I believe your preferred arms are mostly of the bayonet fixing headshell variety though so you'll probably have to keep the headshell it came with.

Are you able to change the loading on the ET transformers?

OK, guys, thanks for your help.

It looks as I made it eventually to sound better.  I increased the loading impedance to 90R (which hardly means anything, still can't figure out hoe much the Ortofon what to have it. They say 47K, which probably is for a build-in transformer, so I presume that a raw cartridge should see a typical 100R… but I do not know...), dumped the arm with silicone, and added .3g to VTF. Also, contrarily to my expectation the needle turned out to be quite sensitive (less then stereo complex-profile needled but way more sensitive then DL-102) to VTA setting that I tuned. Now the cartridge still has the tiny amalgam of upperbass warmth but it has way less upperbass forwardness. I actually begin to like a lot what it dose….

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=949#949

Thanks,
Romy the Cat

Yep, I'm kind of growing on this cartridge and now I really like it. It has very pleasant tonal colors (yes, I would still call it colorations) and it has very appealing “dynamic viscosity”. All together it make it very musical. Probably my initial run over the poor upperbass-less hoodlums with box speakers and open baffles was not rational. Form a different protective: why not. If this cartridge has begun to work OK in my system it does not mend that the open baffles begin to produce a proper upper bass… :-)

Anyhow, it is a miserable rainy day in here in Boston and I am running the SPU all day long. It does inject some “new quality” in my mono recordings. I’m playing now the original cast of “Tales of Hoffmann” film by Thomas Beecham from 1951. Some other records I played today...