| Search | Login/Register
   Home » Audio For Dummies ™ » Why I do not like the "high-end" audio-reviewers. (10 posts, 1 page)
  Print Thread | 1st Post |  
Page 1 of 1 (10 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Michael Fremer Continuums…..  Pre-manufactured box speaker...  Audio News Forum     54  616563  01-21-2006
12-18-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 27767
Reply to: 27767
Why I do not like the "high-end" audio-reviewers.


...and response.








"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-19-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,673
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 2
Post ID: 27768
Reply to: 27767
Circular "Logic"
It has been a little saddening to see the devolution of "professional" audio commentary since I started my subscription to Sterephile, in the mid 60s, when things audio seemed to be looking up. I miss the genuine curiosity and willingness to experiment and listen to and be guided by results that marked the early years of JGH and "subjective testing", when there was literally no advertising, and no quid-pro-quo for reviews. I would not hazard a guess at Michael Fremer's actual audio accumen, but the YouTube exposition tells its own story like thick fog on San Fransisco Bay, topped by a proffered example of sound that could not be rescued by a better server, etc. After MF's build-up, I would have been surprised and delighted if good Music poured forth from that pile of bespoke equipment. Of course, that did not happen. Of course, I was not targeted by this video in the first place. I guess everyone is selling something, but am I amazed that there are buyers who spend that kind of money for results like that following a pitch like that. Truly, what did any of it have to do with audio, let alone advanced audio? One might just as well wonder how The Robb Report stays afloat.

Paul S
12-19-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 362
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 3
Post ID: 27769
Reply to: 27768
Minimum condition
I wrote an article about “audio Critique” in an audio forum and Michael Fremer answered to my topic but his answers were irrelevant.
At first Michael Fremer and most audio reviewers have no high performance audio system and also they do not know about proper condition of audio critique, they compare A vs B in wrong condition so their judgments are not trusted. Their reviewing method is also wrong and they have no idea about it. They do not care about music and they just describe the sound ,for example amp X has better bass, amp y has better midrange, amp x is bright amp y is laidback and … all are completely bullshit.
Minimum condition for comparing audio equipments : - advanced high performance audio system - perfect AC power quality - Perfect speaker position - perfect amplifier speaker matching - proper method for audio judgment 

If any audio reviewer change the amplifier (or dac or …) then he should change the speaker position. The internet is full of wrong judgments and there are very few expert audiophiles.
Audio reviewers do not care what we want, they just help the industry sales.


www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
12-19-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JJ Triode
Posts 100
Joined on 09-12-2007

Post #: 4
Post ID: 27771
Reply to: 27769
The decline of "luxury" aka "High End"
There is an article in the current New York Times about the stratospheric prices and declining quality in high fashion:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/19/opinion/vuitton-chanel-burberry-lvmh-hermes.html

It is a funny article but the situation it describes (brand-name mania and huge prices for poor results) is very applicable to commercial high-end audio. The only difference is that the article sees the disaster as starting about 10 years ago, while the audio high end has been going that way a lot longer.
12-20-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 362
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 5
Post ID: 27772
Reply to: 27771
High End Audio University
I told before the real problem is the high end audio is very complex subject and audiophiles are not educated by experts.If there was an university for teaching training audio then we did not have those problems.
Most Audio Reviewers misguide audiophiles.
Imagine if most audiophiles learn about high end then they will not read audio magazines.
I bet under 10% of audiohiles know what dynamic means.


www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
12-20-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
PeterA
Posts 2
Joined on 04-29-2021

Post #: 6
Post ID: 27773
Reply to: 27772
Videos
My real learning started when David Karmeli started to teach me about system set up.  After I took that old system as far as I could, I bought a new system from him.  I had thought I knew what dynamics means.  Then I heard 105 to 110 dB horns and SETs and began to rethink dynamics.  I have not read the magazines for years.
Good video Romey.  I agree MF's video is not about good sound.  He does not describe what he hears.  I particularly enjoyed the last ten minutes of your video.


American Sound AS2000; Lamm LP1, LL1.1 Sig, ML2; Vitavox CN-191
DIY signal cables, rack, Ching Cheng power cords
System link: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/natural-sound.32867/
12-20-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 27774
Reply to: 27773
This is very complicated subject...
David is very good source, and despite relatively high prices he has, you surprisingly get better results for those prices then out there. I was looking for at your writing "What is Natural Sound". I certainly see David influence. I debated it with David a month or so ago. I understand where you and David come from and I'm not necessary disagree. However, the big question is if the freedom from not naturality food automatically assure a success of messages delivered. I feel it is not. I feel that naturality of lack of this are also the expressive tools of sound reproduction efforts. This is a complicated subject....


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-21-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 362
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 8
Post ID: 27775
Reply to: 27773
Hello Peter
 PeterA wrote:
My real learning started when David Karmeli started to teach me about system set up.  After I took that old system as far as I could, I bought a new system from him.  I had thought I knew what dynamics means.  Then I heard 105 to 110 dB horns and SETs and began to rethink dynamics.  I have not read the magazines for years.
Good video Romey.  I agree MF's video is not about good sound.  He does not describe what he hears.  I particularly enjoyed the last ten minutes of your video.


Dear Peter, Welcome to goodsoundclub.com




www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
12-21-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 9
Post ID: 27776
Reply to: 27775
Naturality.
I probably need to record a video about my disagreement with the concept of naturality. I absolutely do not undermine what Peter Express in his website but as I said, I feel it is methodological compromise. 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-21-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,673
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 10
Post ID: 27777
Reply to: 27776
"Natural Sound"
Is this sub-thread OK here, or should it have its own header?

The idea of "natural sound" is still facinatinating to me after many years of deconstructing and reconstructing old drivers and gear, trying to figure out what makes what sound a particular way. At this point, my own experience is that this is a healthy branch of the Simple Message School, like Audio Note, where "good sounding parts" are compiled to yield nice, warm cellos, classic jazz combos, etc, IMO well beyond what the Magico-alike compilations can do in terms of Music, and a nice resting place for those who can afford it. I understand what Romy is saying, as well, not to rain on anyone's parade but to use the opportunity to illucidate by differientiating his own well-thought out ideas about audio methodology and his own route for his own best results.

Paul S
Page 1 of 1 (10 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Michael Fremer Continuums…..  Pre-manufactured box speaker...  Audio News Forum     54  616563  01-21-2006
Home Page  |  Last 24Hours  | Search  |  SiteMap  | Questions or Problems | Copyright Note
The content of all messages within the Forums Copyright © by authors of the posts