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07-25-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 51
Post ID: 16713
Reply to: 16698
Keep on goin'
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
 It is incredibly rare that an audio makers can express pure and unadulterated interest in Sound, interest that is wider and then boundary of own product or own field. 
I agree, I met maybe only 1 or 2 who really knew from what they talk. Your writing about how this System works is complete and there is nothing to add. Maybe it is even worse. Yes, I think, it is even worse.
There is no difference made between a product which is really good and complete nonsense. Your Micro Seiki experience is very well written, final too.
I know Importers who tell me, they have to give away their cartridge (or another one) for getting a review, a former Basis Importer told me years ago he got a call from an Audio Magazine (the most known in his country) and they told him they want to list the Basis Debut Vac. newly as their Reference Turntable.
He answered, that this is a nice idea, he always knew that this is a very good Turntable but when he remembers right, they never listened to one.
The answer was, well, who cares, our Reference System listed for the last 3 years were all German units and now it is time for a change, they want American made units now (new Importer Advertisings....)
Btw. it wasn't done, the Importer was not willing to give them that Turntable for free and also the US Manufacturer refused to give one for free also.
They found a German manufacturer who agreed and the Ball was rolling again...
Years later, I think nothing changed.





Kind Regards
Stitch
07-25-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 52
Post ID: 16716
Reply to: 16713
Name(Face)/Face(Name)
fiogf49gjkf0d
Several years ago I had a 20 minute conversation with AJ Conti (Basis).  I thought at the time that he represented the best of "audio manufacturers".  He is VERY bright, and he seemed quite knowlegable. He freely gave credit to others where he  felt it was due, and he seemed tireless in the "pursuit of excellence" in his own products.

I am not saying that anything has changed since then, but it did seem to me that those products quickly hit a sort of plateau with respect to materials and design as relates to sound.  Decide for yourself if they leveled out at the "best place".  Regardless, it appears that materials and design were settled on for reasons that have much to do with "manufacturing" (including, probably, QA), and also "appearance".  The latter "trait" is something one sees in all "product lines", that they might "distinguish themselves from the rest of the pack".

While "sound" may be considered to be "abstract" and/or "subjective", who can argue with, say, all-acrylic construction, etc.  Never mind the sonic merits of this stuff (which may even be touted...); there it is, for all to see for themselves.  This has got to be the biggest reason for most of the high-flown (often absurd) "design" decisions we see in any given "product", that a product will somehow "distinguish" itself in the mind of the shopper.

At the "basement" level, a "product" might be any concoction the "maker" dreams up, and "explanations" might range from reams of "white papers" to "secret", mystical references, to "haute couture" design that "speaks for itself".  No telling how much money might be thrown at any given product, for any given reason, especially during the early  "coming out" part of its life cycle.  Likewise, any old product might find supporters who want to "revive" it.
In all cases, the Name needs a Face, and vice-versa.

What, again, is the sonic hope for the "Pierre Clemente" cartridge?


Paul S
07-02-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 53
Post ID: 21071
Reply to: 1957
Defending Fremer , well kind of....
fiogf49gjkf0d
The reference object of my site brought me to the  page where some kind of audio people scrutinize Mike Fremer:

http://stereocentral.tv/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=5697&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105

It is given that Fremer is an idiot and they guy at the site posted the frequency response of Fremer's own listening room and they are trying to present it as some kind of despicable response. It is ironic but in this specific situation I would like to defend Fremer  and insist that the frequency response posted is normal, typical for the topology of the acoustic system that Fremer  used and there is absolutely nothing  wrong with this. The topology of "everything of if one box" (aka big Wilsos) has very limited ways or no ways to deal with upper bass and partially the lower bass issues in the room and Fremer , like anybody else, is very much a hostage of the satiation. Also, if you look at the frequency deviations and how they are located across octaves then it is perfectly acceptable for this type of acoustic system topology. I am very much assure that many of your if you do measure the  frequency response in your room would have much worse result then what Fremer has.

So, I do not deny that Fremer a Moron because multiple accomplishments of his life but I do not think that it right to incremented him his "outrages" room frequency response.
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-02-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 353
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 54
Post ID: 21072
Reply to: 21071
Near or far
fiogf49gjkf0d
I agree that the published curves don't look bizarre for a box speaker. Is it the case that these speakers don't permit nearfield listening? That would be a way of reducing the volume and minimizing room effects. I assume that his wife locks the door to the "office". She wouldn't have to see the room which makes the average dorm room look like the work of an interior designer. BTW I'm amazed at the LPs scattered all over the floor. I guess he only worships them in prose.
07-03-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 55
Post ID: 21073
Reply to: 21072
Pre-manufactured box speaker
fiogf49gjkf0d
 steverino wrote:
I agree that the published curves don't look bizarre for a box speaker.
Hmmm, I would like to note that my reference to "given topology" did not imply the  "box speaker". Even a multichannel box speaker might have options to adjust the out of the channels and to a degree to adjust the way how the channels are mixed. When I referred to given topology I meant the pre-manufactured box speaker. Wilson do what they do and they do fine but even they best speakers are just self-contained acoustic system that can't not take to consideration of acoustic environment of a given listening room where the speakers might be installed. I think lately they did make some affords to moodily the output from the ports but it affect only lower end and unfortunately I absolutely discard the sound that Wilsons produce in bass - to me that it very bad. So, if to consider the largest Wilson as fine acoustic system with lower limit of let say 45Hz then what options a regular user has to fine tune his or her Wilson to own room? Well, not a lot. Wilson outputs whatever it outputs and in case the room happened to be fine than the person is lucky, if not then the whole Wilson "granges" is pretty much wasted. The idea to have a high performing speaker with LF and MF integrated into one box is always kind of dangers. To have acoustic system that fits into the specific of the room  in my view is next level up in topology. The same large Wilson with separate sealed upper bass and lower bass modules would be the Wilson done properly, but I do not think Wilson even went there. Anyhow, for one loudspeaker in one box placed as is in the room Fremer has fine accidental result measurement wise. I do question that vertical frame with records  that form a wall right begin the listening spot. To me it is in position of awfully close first reflection from the left speaker and it shall be very auditable.  I do not think however that it shall prevent the idiot to do his idiot things...

BTW, do not be amazed over the LPs scattered all over the floor. I can recognize the Frank Zappa record at the very front. To me that is not amazing but very diagnosable, however highly predictable.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 3 of 3 (55 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2 3
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Ultimate Turntable..  Techdas Designer Hideaki Nishikawa R.I.P...  Analog Playback Forum     220  1272222  05-31-2004
  »  New  The Foolishness of Analog People..  Late to the discussion but cannot resist...  Analog Playback Forum     56  561827  01-30-2006
  »  New  About reviewer’s qualifications and disqualifications...  Sad thing....  Audio Discussions  Forum     1  30599  06-21-2009
  »  New  Sensible record cleaning: vinyl piranhas and record Vas..  No Way That Can Work!...  Analog Playback Forum     56  323850  11-07-2009
  »  New  Audio Note new turntable and inflation..  Audio Note Ginga Turntable...  Analog Playback Forum     14  150712  01-03-2010
  »  New  How much does it cost to stabilize a turntable speed?..  How much does it cost to stabilize a turntable speed?...  Analog Playback Forum     0  17974  03-13-2010
  »  New  Swell New RIAA-Only Phonostage, Only $60k!!!..  Vitus...  Analog Playback Forum     8  57399  07-05-2010
  »  New  Bose audio and industry post-mortal ripples..  Michael Fremer can’t escape himself...  Audio News Forum     4  31244  07-20-2013
  »  New  "New" TechDas Air Force Zero..  Audio Consumer Protection?...  Audio News Forum     5  9542  08-13-2021
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