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  »  New   Wilsons, EMM, Ozawa, Saint-Saens and.....  Re: Correction: EMM Lab DAC-transport....  Audio Discussions  Forum     4  44952  10-02-2005
  »  New  The most promising “best” commercial speaker..  Viva Audio...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     190  1293368  12-06-2006
  »  New  The loudspeakers for a powerful SET..  Mission Accomplished?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     48  293828  04-11-2008
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  »  New  A new CES 2010 loudspeaker?..  Good idea, indeed......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     15  120961  01-13-2010
  »  New  A primer on high-end marketing: Wilson XLF..  About Wilson XLF by Robert Harley...  Audio News Forum     8  42346  12-17-2011
  »  New  Lamm ML2.2 and Mark the BS teller...  Keeping beaching about Spectral…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     7  48258  01-30-2012
08-15-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007

Post #: 26
Post ID: 11403
Reply to: 11386
The Wilson effect
fiogf49gjkf0d
I twice had the opportunity to listen to a Wilson: The Puppy 8 combined with a Lamm power amp and the latest Maxx with Soulution electronics. Both times my impression was that there is some characteristic shining or radiance probably induced by the breakup of carbon-doped paper cones in combination with the anorganic-particle-doped acrylate enclosures and the slightly metallic signature of the titanium tweeters. I couldn´t find anything special apart from that, i.e. no particular strengths or weaknesses. In fact the sonic signature was so different that listening to the Maxx directly after listening to an ESL I didn´t have the feeling of listening to just an other dynamic speaker again, and I can imagine that for some bathing-in-sound audiophiles this is a reason for placing Wilsons over all other speakers in the world. But I would NEVER call them references due to the very subjective nature of this effect.
Did anyone else here have the same sensation?
08-15-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Axel
South Africa
Posts 80
Joined on 07-18-2009

Post #: 27
Post ID: 11404
Reply to: 11403
RE: Wilson 'sound effect'
fiogf49gjkf0d
el`Ol,
it is quite fascinating how well you depicted (listening to WP 8!) what I heard, listening to some 5.x
I.E. "some characteristic shining or radiance probably induced by the breakup of carbon-doped paper cones in combination with the anorganic-particle-doped acrylate enclosures and the slightly metallic signature of the titanium tweeters"

Having just gone over another older posts, and all about various standing waves = breakup when at its worst, on resonating materials (cones, enclosures, etc.)

Quoting Bud: "... As an example, if you are walking on the sidewalk in town, feeling safe and secure, obeying the rules, and you hear an unknown or surprising sound behind you, what do you do? You cannot avoid having your attention brought to this unknown, as you say, "Alien" sound. Your correlator and automatic threat assessment systems want this sound catalogued and it's source defined, NOW. Same is true when listening to art being redisplayed in your room as "music" I do not like having this threat sensor going off while I am listening to Horenstein conduct the L. S. O. through Mahler's third symphony in my living room

What he is describing is what I once posted --- Frightening" or "Relaxing" sound quality?, see:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1240748267&openusid&zzShadorne&4&5

I ran into a full broad-side of what Romy might call 'Audio Moronix TM'. It was like talking to people that only seem to listen to the clock radios...
I eventually asked if they could not hear these sounds because they may be "VC hardened"? I.E. used to the enemy's crackling branches in the bush setting of threat sensors. --- The reaction: "No idea and Not amused...!" :-(

Back to the 'Wilson effect', it is what Bud referres to as "Alien" sounds, and the small Wilsons have that in plenty supply.
It puts me on edge, I also do NOT like having my 'threat sensors going off while listening to Mahler's 3rd..."

However, a younger Audio friend of mine (has changed somewhat now, getting older?...) used to like this AV-like 'Wilson over the top effect'.
The small Wilsons are a bit like Bungee jumping, and not my idea when listing to ANY type of music. I got them out of my listening room real fast.

Axel
08-15-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,549
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 28
Post ID: 11406
Reply to: 11403
Good word found – the radiance
fiogf49gjkf0d
 el`Ol wrote:
…. there is some characteristic shining or radiance…

Yes and no. Radiance probably is a very good word to describe Wilsons. (Search the site for Focal Utopia TN51) The key in here is not letting the artificial radiance to stay on your way and to USE radiance constructively. To do it Wilson’s radiance need to be VERY properly and VERY sensibly balanced with its lower MF and midbass region. It is very difficult and it is not always even possible. Here is where all small Wilsons in my view need to discarded. Only big Wilsons: Garand Slam and Alexandria had this opportunity, but again - it requires a lot of whorl with very complicate positioning of them and it will not work in all rooms. The Maxx I also attribute to the small Wilsons as I think the lower range of them underdeveloped to respect to the upper-range radiance they demonstrate. It looks like lat years Wilsons is trying to beef up of the reputation and capacity of the Maxx line and it is possible that the latest Maxx 3 is more able then Maxx and Maxx 2 with which I am familiar. It is hard to say. The fucking idiots who own Maxx and write about them were absolutely ecstatic about the first Maxx, as well as the Maxx 2 as they are ecstatic about the Maxx 3. No one of them has a stand about absolute sound’s needs and they just milk their stupid brains in respect to the new products promotion.

The Wilson’s exuberant radiance is undoubtedly a selling aspect for Wilson –people like the immoderate gratification but still I feel that in the properly setup big Wilsons the “wrong radiance” shall not be there. The big Wilson have many very specials qualities that in a way unique in loudspeakers. Put in this way: we have many near and over $100K loudspeakers that not even remotely close to near and over $100K Wilsons.  I still feel that over $100K loudspeakers shall offer a different topological opportunity.  The $100K or lower it will be the price of  Macondo-like installation with a full- blown pair 40Hz midbass hors and a pair of 90 sq feet ULF sections, that will eat Alexandra on breakfast. Still, the big Wilsons are a good compact, encapsulated and comfortable package. Sure it has problems and I well describe them in the beginning of the thread.  But, again, I talk about product not about sound – I do not care about products….

 el`Ol wrote:
But I would NEVER call them references due to ….
El’Ol, you forget that the definition of references is possible ONLY in context of your expectations. If I performed a service for you and you graded my service as something that “did not meet expectations” then the first question would be is not how good my service was but what your expectations were all about.  The majorities of audio Morons do not exchange and do not correlate expectations and requirements for sound, they just pollute space with mindless, disconnected and incoherent commentaries about sounds that hardly ever related to anything. Anyhow, if you pay attention to where I lead my disappointment with Big Wilsons then you might observe that it is my feeling that despise the numerous reviews and commentaries the Big Wilsons had, still NO ONE said about Big Wilsons anything true worthy what Big Wilsons migh deserve.  Perhaps when David Wilsons retire he might write a book about his views about the bid Wilsons and about the Wilsons that he did not build because his admirerers are too primitive idiots who satisfied with anything inferior. I do not know David Wilson personally and I do not know how he thinks. I spoke with him 14 years back but it was very non-indicative.  He might be all enslaved with his industry delusions, sort of Mike Framer but who has actually tangible capacity to do the thing instead of serving humanity as a republican radio talk-show host.  Other then this I do not think that anything about Big Wilson’s design or sound will be able to became an understood awareness for wide audio public.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,549
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 29
Post ID: 12691
Reply to: 1509
Conversations with Dave Wilson
fiogf49gjkf0d
In 3 parts. A very good infomercial.

http://www.wilsonaudio.com/company_html/conversations_part1.html

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-27-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,549
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 30
Post ID: 18779
Reply to: 1509
Auditioning the New Wilson Audio Alexia Loudspeaker
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Frank Berryman posted an article at his site about his auditioning of Alexia Loudspeaker.

http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/auditioning-the-new-wilson-audio-alexia-loudspeaker

I do not how about you but after reading the article I feel that it said very little.  Behisn all of that elegant writing there is a screaming emptiness where Frank looks like imitated all reviewers that came before him. He expressed absolutely nothing personal or important for that matter and he even emulate the common stupidity that his predecessors usually do. I do not know why he did it – perhaps he want to get from Wilson a deal for his own new speaker (85% of reviews out there are written for this purpose). Anyhow, I consider this Frank Berryman’s article is useful to read, not because it gives any impression about Frank or Wilson but becose the review is an perfect demonstration of what people think/do in audio when they have no identity of what they do.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-27-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,163
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 31
Post ID: 18780
Reply to: 18779
Cogito Ergo Sum
fiogf49gjkf0d
I really got my fill of Wilson speakers while auditioning amplifiers earlier this year, and also tired of hearing the self-satisfied "explanations" and enumerations of all the "reasons" why they sound so great, when, in fact, they sound pretty much like you'd suppose if you paid attention to the approach/design/marketing of the products. Frankly, I've yet to hear them them make Music I want to listen to, not even enough to want to take them home to play with.  I realize I've not said anything about their sound, either, but I really just don't care about them.

Interesting juggling act, however, smugness and self-justification.

Paul S
01-28-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,163
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 32
Post ID: 18951
Reply to: 18780
New Alexandria XLF; Inching Toward the Tonal Matrix
fiogf49gjkf0d
Looking at the drivers, and the range of adjustments, it appears that Wilson have done some things that make more sense than usual, at least to me.  The MTM drivers can easily be set for "time alignment", which should help to cope with Wilson's "notorious phase issues".  LF drivers are larger-than-usual, 13" and even a 15", and I hand it to Wilson here for moving in the right direction, giving the cone/air interface a bigger role, instead of laying it all on the amps with the usual small, "fast", "long-throw" garbage.  They went with 7" for MF, which is also larger than many "high end" mfgs use these days but, oddly, they chose to run a 1" silk dome tweeter down to 1k Hz, to tie it into the 7".  This means that the true WR driver in this stack is the 1" silk dome tweeter.  Hmmm...  There is another, rear-firing, 1" silk dome for HF only.  I have no problem with off-axis HF like this; in fact, I applaud it.

Setting aside the proper range for its use, the "retro" step back to silk domes is a good idea, compared to where they have been.  I have no idea why they stuck with the Be and Ti for so long.  Back to range, 1k Hz is way too low for a 1" dome, in terms of tone, and also in terms of "dynamic balance".  I am guessing that Wilson actually run the 7" up a good deal further than 1k Hz, as they should, although Fremer says Wilson says they wanted to "avoid beaming" from the 7".  Since Fremer says Wilson say the 7" is "WR", I suppose this means they also run it down too low.  Ideally, I would not assign lower MF solely - and certainly not upper bass - to a 7"; but I suppose this is nothing in "high end" audio.  As for the "beaming", there are other ways to deal with it; but perhaps these are as yet undiscovered by Wilson, or perhaps other ways were dismissed because they compromise the "Wilson Look".

All in all, it appears that Wilson is inching toward something that may eventually get past the usual, self-imposed, high-end audio problems.  With still-larger paper drivers and more reasonable X/Os, they might get there yet.

I meant to add a link to Fremer's introduction via Stereophile, but I failed to copy it properly before posting.



Paul S
04-28-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,549
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 20738
Reply to: 1509
Listening some Wilsons this week.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Last week I spent in NYC and while Amy was hanging along some kind of malignancy conference of her and had a couple hours free around Grand Center Station and I decided to drop by at  Innovative Audio at 58 street.  I know that they Wilson and Lamm dealers, so it might be interesting to hear ML3 with large Wilson.

Sine I am not in business of buying anything I did not make any reservation and when I drop by in their office I did not ask to make any changes and to play everything as it was - I do not want to waste the people time trying to sell me something.

The first room was Wilson Alexandria XLF I think. It was the room kind of dedicated to the XLF, their flagman room. The front end was all Spectral, the application was VTL’s Siegfried Reference, plus some kind of fat cables. I presume it was Transparent as they run Transparent power treatment devise, I have no idea what it was. The sales guys was very little informed what they do but they were very polite, courteous and willing to help, so was I. The souse was Meridian DAW, the ripped CDs.

Sound. That was interesting. Something was very severally compromised in there across the board and it was clearly at the very beginning. I do not Meridian sound but I did have a feeling that the CD souse was not good. Sound had that " washy burned not crisp" feeling that I might under attribute to ether very bad digital front end or to bad electricity. I did asked the guys in there if they feel that they lose any quality or obtain any problems while they rip the CD to the Meridian server. They said that they do not and that the ripped CD sound much better then original. I accepted the answer and did not argue.

With exception of the across the board "washy" sound it was impossible do not notice that Alexandria XLF, even despite the inferior electronics ( a pair of Lamm's M1 was sitting right there and I have no idea why they did not use them), did offer something remarkable. The innermodulative XLF handling, the  ability to portrayal complex lo level lower MF signals why handling stressful upper MF was truly tour de force of loudspeaker capacity in my view. How David is getting this from his largest Wilsons and how he get some much dynamics from his largest Wilsons is a huge secret to me but he does it and to my knowledge no others can do it. Neither the smaller Wilsons can do it, including the Maxx. The largest Wilsons are kind of mystery to me and they in a way define what might be done by loudspeakers.  

Even it was kind of target listening but it was nice pleasurable listening experience.  The music they have on the  Meridian server was mostly the Audiophile crap, the electronics was stone-cold, there was no nuances take care in that setup but the sound was better than I anticipated, at least what XLF did very well was not able to be hidden by what was wrong in that room and with that setup.

Now, if I way that sound was pleasurable and better then I expected then does it mean that sound was acceptable.  No it was not.  The was very constant ever-present pressure from Wilsons, that in the end made me not able to listen too long. Interesting that it was despite that I feel that it was "pleasurable". I do think that the pleasure I got from  some brilliant aspects of  large Wilsons, and   those good thing was truly hypnotizing. The overall pervasive present of VERY characteristic Wilsons bass however made the whole experience kind of strange.  It is like walking around street and to see a hundred dollar bill laying on the grass. Looks attractive, does it? How pretend that this hundred dollar bill that so attractively sitting on the ground and waiting for you is coved in shit, will you pick it up? That was exactly what Wilsons demonstrated and in this case the preverbal shit was played by Wilson's lower octave. It was not juts "boomy" uncontrolled bass that was improperly managed by the room. It was uncontrolled bass but I am not taking about the wrong amount of bass but the texture of the bass itself. It was very bad and it was in particularly bad in context of generally superb lover MF region. I just do not know what to say more: it was just a generic LF noise coming at the bottom and it hugely poisoned anything.

I asks if I can listen another room where Lamms was connected as I do know the amp well. It was Wilson Saha or something like this - 3 ways Wilson slightly larger than Wilson 7. Here sound was absolute crap and it was waste of time to listen it.

In the end the owner of the shot come to the room - a very pleasant fellow. He begin to talk about music, not that he had any interest but it feels that he rather pushing from himself the "pseudo - intellectual musical verbiage" that he feels his customer shall like. I honestly was listening him and had no idea what he was taking. I did ask him a few questions in context of what he said and he kind of behaved like a deer in headlights. Do not get me wrong - I have nothing against the guy, I just wish if so much desperate to impress visitors with his fine artistic capacity then instead of speeding sophomoric verbiage about music and listening experience he would need to make sure that his store have at least one interesting or worthy musical performance.

As I was leaving the store owner asked me what I was thinking about Wilson sound. I said that I did not like bass. He looked at me as I was unfortunate "Cripple of Inishmaan" but he did demonstrated his own class and did not disagree with me.

Generally it was a very nice trip and generally Largest Wilsons just reassured me  that they are the very best what might be taken from single box topology with port. They are for sure a leading age of today loudspeakers  thinking, if you think inside of the box.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-29-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 174
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 34
Post ID: 20744
Reply to: 20738
What could cause "ripped" CDs to sound bad?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
The souse was Meridian DAW, the ripped CDs.

Sound. That was interesting. Something was very severally compromised in there across the board and it was clearly at the very beginning. I do not Meridian sound but I did have a feeling that the CD souse was not good. Sound had that " washy burned not crisp" feeling that I might under attribute to ether very bad digital front end or to bad electricity. I did asked the guys in there if they feel that they lose any quality or obtain any problems while they rip the CD to the Meridian server. They said that they do not and that the ripped CD sound much better then original. I accepted the answer and did not argue.

Romy,

Do you have an idea about what could cause "ripped" CDs to sound bad and is there any way that these problems you mention could be solved or minimized?

Did you also reach the same conclusions by "ripping" CDs with your DAW and playback?


I ask this because I am about to move to a different country where I'll be living for the next 3 years and have started ripping all my CDs to avoid having to take them and the system along with me (who knows if/when I'll be back).

I don't have a D/AC at the moment and can't really get one until I sell my current system.

Cheers,
Ric




"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
04-30-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,549
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 35
Post ID: 20745
Reply to: 20744
Ripping is not good.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 tuga wrote:
Do you have an idea about what could cause "ripped" CDs to sound bad and is there any way that these problems you mention could be solved or minimized?
Did you also reach the same conclusions by "ripping" CDs with your DAW and playback?
I ask this because I am about to move to a different country where I'll be living for the next 3 years and have started ripping all my CDs to avoid having to take them and the system along with me (who knows if/when I'll be back).
I don't have a D/AC at the moment and can't really get one until I sell my current system.

Ric, this is Wilson thread  and I will not over it too deep. Generally I do not know what is the cause of "ripped" uncompressed files do not sound identical to CDs. I have been doing for years, not ripping CDs but trying to do it, I went to some extend but I never was able get an acceptable result. Many people degree with me, including some this site visitors but I degree with them.
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-30-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 36
Post ID: 20746
Reply to: 20745
It's the computer!?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I have a standalone duplicator and the copies almost always outperform the originals -- and they are never worse.
But I have heard computer-made copies that are okay, so...
cj
09-14-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,549
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 37
Post ID: 21220
Reply to: 1509
Interesting about WAMM.
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-audio-modular-monitor-wamm-loudpeaker-system


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Djoeri
Posts 2
Joined on 02-18-2013

Post #: 38
Post ID: 21453
Reply to: 21220
Wilson headache
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Romy,
I've been reading GSC for some time, because I hope to find and learn some different audio perspectives. Untill now I never posted anything because of my total ignorance about horn speakers. But i've heard some wilson audio's a couple of times but always got a headache of these speakers. The last time I tried to listen to the Alexandria X-2 on devialet with ripped audio. But after 10 seconds the headache popped up and destroyed my mood. It was like someone pinching with 1000 needles in my ears. Fortunately at that time I was working at an ENT department and have checked my ear drums.
So i'm a little bit surprised that you used the terms "something remarkable" in your previous post. Well maybe it's those dynamics that my ears can't cope. 
Kind regards,
Djoeri
01-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,549
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 39
Post ID: 21454
Reply to: 21453
I do not think so.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Djoeri, in my estimation the problems you described, the "pinching needles in ears", is not a problem of the Wilsons.  I do not know what it was and under which condition it was but you shall not have any headaches from largest Wilsons.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-02-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Djoeri
Posts 2
Joined on 02-18-2013

Post #: 40
Post ID: 21459
Reply to: 21454
Inverted dome
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Romy,
Well, after looking at their website it showed that the alexandria ii and all the smaller ones have the inverted dome which gave me the headache. I already found them soundwise very similor to the smaller ones and now i understand. The alexandria xlf has the silk dome so that will probably give it a different sound. It is just very funny all the big companies switched to diamond/Metall/beryllium and now everybody has it and they turn back to silk and paper. Wenn do we get the cd back? 10 year ? It shines better than vinyl and a hdd. 
Kind regards,
Djoeri
01-14-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,549
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 41
Post ID: 21493
Reply to: 1509
WAMM 2015
fiogf49gjkf0d
It looks like Wilson brings WAMM back:
 
http://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-revisits-waam
 
Well, what can I say – it is smart. A few "jaw-dropping reviews" from the ordinary suspects and the new WAMM will be flying from warehouses with no less intensity then Alexandria. Good move for Wilsons. What I wonder if David Wilson have balls to go for WAMM's bass without ported enclosure. If he does then it might be a very interesting new large Wilson.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-14-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,163
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 42
Post ID: 21494
Reply to: 21493
Wilson's SOTA
fiogf49gjkf0d
I don't remember and am too lazy to check the sizes of the drivers for this system, but I do "remember" this as a speaker that Wilson has never outdone since. I suppose it still comes with tech help in setting it up, which would be the ballgame for most prospective buyers; otherwise, it could take years. Likely this will have the newer, "softer" drivers, but I would be surprised if they went other than multiple "smaller" drivers for LF, not that LF has been the biggest "concern" for the WAMM. Anyway, I hope I get a chance to hear it, perhaps at THE show this year, since it's "all new for 2015".



Paul S
01-14-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 43
Post ID: 21495
Reply to: 21493
Memory Lane
fiogf49gjkf0d
Dave used to show (off) this system in the largest room available at CES. Lines formed and IIRC reservations were taken. I auditioned it twice and each time was the best BIG SOUND I had ever heard. Only, he wasn't careful about correct polarity.

c
05-29-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,549
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 44
Post ID: 24892
Reply to: 1509
A sad news: Dave Wilson RIP
I has been announced that Dave Wilson has dies on May 25. From Jason Serinus‘ article:  
 
https://www.stereophile.com/content/au-revoir-dave-wilson-1944%C2%962018 
 
Discussing his ultimate statement, he [David] said, "The placement of the drivers relative to each other affects the synchronicity of the alignment of the leading edge of the transient. Our patent on how we achieve time alignment dates back to 1984. 
 
"Speed is not a main arbiter of quality; it's just a characteristic . . . It's about time; it's all about time. Flat frequency response, low distortion, extended bandwidth, and accurate timing synchronicity are equally important. It's nice if you have phase coherence, but it is not necessary. What I'm interested in is the synchronicity of the leading edge of each note. If you were to look at what 10 microseconds is on our measuring scale, you'll see that our adjustable driver positioning dissects that line. We are truly splitting hairs."
 



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-29-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 166
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 45
Post ID: 24893
Reply to: 24892
Amplifier
Sad news,i have heard wilson alexandria and i never undrestand how it could be drived with proper amplifier.Alexandria need over 100 watt and i found no good amplifier over 20 watt. It seems wamm and other wilson big speakers do not let you use seprate amplifier for each channel.
05-29-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,163
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 46
Post ID: 24894
Reply to: 24892
Good Business Model
It is sad to read about David Wilson's passing at 73 years of age.  He should serve as a model for audio marketing, if not product development.  One thing we never heard about was poor QC from Wilson, because this was not a problem for them, or they kept on top of it.

Amir, I am not positive as I type this, but I believe most Wilson speakers can be multi-amped.  As with all speakers, more power is required for LF, of course, and there are provisions for this.  The original WAMMs were multi-amped.  I did manage to find acceptable amps that are powerful.  I can't say they are better in all ways than SETs, but they do a better job with my speakers in my room, and if you are actually interested in finding amps to drive Wilson speakers, then you can do it.

Paul S
05-29-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 166
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 47
Post ID: 24895
Reply to: 24894
Alexandria could not be biamp
Wilson wamm is not in iran and i have no idea about it’s multi amping but i know wilson alexandria has one terminal and you can not use multiamp for low and high frequency of Alexandria.Wilson alexandria had good sound  but i never listened to alexandria in an ideal setup.
05-29-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,549
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 48
Post ID: 24896
Reply to: 24894
...whoever will hold the torch...
 Paul S wrote:
He should serve as a model for audio marketing, if not product development. 

For sure I would like do not scope down the life of the person to strictly audio accomplishments but if to look at the David Wilson loudspeakers accomplishments then it will not be an exemplary audio marketing or “not product development” as it has hardly anything to do with advancement of audio practice. To me the greatest 2 things the David did in loudspeakers was the following, ironically it was applicable ONLY in his flagship models (Grand Slamm and up), the smaller Wilson models are not interesting in my view:
   
1)    Aphesis of time alignment, no one care, understand or practice it unfortunately… This made the biggest Wilsons to sound so much different than anything else.
   
2)    Ability to eliminate dynamic compression with box loudspeakers. The largest Wilsons are the only known to me acoustic systems that being properly driven does not lose ground to horns in term of dynamic characteristics and freedom from compression. I have no idea how he did and why no one can match it. It might be drivers, crossovers, enclosure material or perhaps all of it combined but it is very unique to top of the line Wilson products.
   
I wish that whoever will hold the torch of the Wilson company will not lose that uniqueness.
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-30-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 166
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 49
Post ID: 24898
Reply to: 24896
WAMM SPEC

Nominal Impedance : 3 ohms / minimum 1.77 ohms @ 310 Hz

Sensitivity : 90 dB @ 1W @ 1m @ 315Hz

Minimum Amplified Power : 100 watts/channel


05-30-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,163
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 50
Post ID: 24899
Reply to: 24898
Reality Check
I first heard the WAMMs in LA, sometime around 1984-5, or so.  They were multi-amped.  I suppose my (SS) amps would drive the new WAMMs FR, since they will easily drive Mark M's giant electrostatic speakers to over 100 dB, measured at 5 m.  They are 600W/channel.  I wrote about them on this site.  I have not heard the big Wilson speakers "optimized", other than the original WAMMs.  I've heard lots of the smaller ones, in many settings,  and they are always too lifeless and boring.  The original WAMMs sounded pretty darn good, but they lost ground in "transparency" and "presence" to the old "stacked Quads" that were also demonstrated at that show.  Nothing but horns could touch those WAMMs in terms of "dynamics", however.  Sure, if there is a serious approach to a speaker system, then the amps have to be considered at the same time.  Of the "tight stack" Wilson speakers, the Alexx seems to be the "least" one to consider.  I have had two opportunities to listen to this speaker but I have not wanted to stay in the room with it as they presented it; too many problems and not enough time to try to sort it out.  They can make SPL, all right, but I've not yet heard them properly load their room.  It would be a hell of a project to tie big Wilson speakers to DSET!  Wilson spends a lot of time and money on their networks, they pretty much "design the speakers around them", and these networks alone pretty much ensure that SETs will have a tough time with Wilson speakers.




Paul S
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