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  »  New  Problems with horns: upper bass ..  Must it be about loading?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     109  1171687  03-25-2005
  »  New  45Hz Bass Horn..  Can We Ever be Saved From Ourselves?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     23  315643  09-19-2006
  »  New  Vitavox ak151 in klipschorn..  Please spare me from those questions....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     1  26418  09-20-2006
  »  New  A right midbass solution for Altec 515G...  Its even possible to make my midbass......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     21  198829  05-06-2007
09-10-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
i_should_coco
UK
Posts 15
Joined on 08-25-2005
Post #: 1
Post ID: 2828
Reply to: 2828
LF for use with Vitavox S2
At Romy's suggestion I've created a new thread for this.

I have been thinking about what sort of bass solution to use with the S2. I was hoping to be able to  get the S2  low enough (c. 300Hz) to make this a bit easier, but it seem that only slightly below 500Hz is realistic. I expect the best solution would be a front horn, but this really isn't an option in my room. I would be interested to hear what other folk are using in their systems?

The options I've been thinking about are:

* Folded horn
* Reflex or sealed box direct radiator.
* Mid-bass horn + sub-woofer.
* Onken type?

Would be nice to get peoples' opinions on the pros & cons of each. Room size is 4.5m x 4m x 3m. Corner placement isn't really an option.

Cheers,
Pete
09-11-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004
Post #: 2
Post ID: 2833
Reply to: 2828
Re: LF system
Hi Pete,
You have a similar size room to me. I'd rather like a large 4 or 5 way setup but don't have the space. I use the S2's (in barbaric stylee) in damped RH330's. Beneath them I use a frontloaded (folded) bass horn Vitavox made called the Oracle. (a bit like a smaller Thunderbolt) I don't know how many of these were made. (not many) They were originally fitted with AK157's but currently have some Celestion BX 4085 HS drivers in them which I prefer. The crossover is about 500 Hz.
I wouldn't claim it had massively extended bass but it's enough for the room (and the house!) and is of a good enough quality.

The S2's are augmented further up by JBL 2405's (and need it with the RH330's)

I do want to replace the RH330's with some tractrix horns fairly soon but, like you, can't conceive of another more domestically acceptable LF solution.
These sound better than any VOTT type bass cabs I've heard.

Maybe (and I've not heard one) a Karlson type cabinet would do it.

One day I'll have a bigger house & more room and the situation will change but for now this does me very well.

Where in the UK are you?

rgs

Guy
09-11-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
i_should_coco
UK
Posts 15
Joined on 08-25-2005
Post #: 3
Post ID: 2836
Reply to: 2833
Re: LF system
Hi Guy,

The Oracle seems like a nice solution - I saw you write up on Peter Empson's forum. They seem compact enough for my requirements. How do you handle time-alignment with the mid-range? Or is this not a problem? To be honest with you I'm not expecting low, low bass - I find the room tends to adds plenty of reinforcement, anyway. I was a bit concerned that folded horn would get high enough, but it sounds like it isn't a problem?

How big are the Oracle cabinets? Do you know of any plans available to have a look at?

Not sure about Karlsons - they look pretty easy to build, and I was entertaining the idea, until a friend pointed out that the response is all over the shop. This probably accounts for the bass "kick" that they're renowned for. Maybe one day I will give them a shot.

Having heard the 340Hz Azura (LeCleac'h) horns on my Coral 1" drivers, I can definitely recommend Marin's horns. I found no tweeter was necessary with that combination.

I'm in Guildford, BTW.

Cheers,
Pete
09-11-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 4
Post ID: 2837
Reply to: 2828
Different lowers frequencies….

Pete,

I do not think that it makes a sense to searched for “LF for use with Vitavox S2”. Do you think that there are good LF to use with Vitavox S2 and there are good LF to use with other drivers? I do not think so. The good LFs are good by themselves and they might not be good for any practical driver.

Whatever solution you might chose be advised that it is hardly unlikely that a single channel would be able to handle everything from 500Hz and down.  To produce 40Hz (real 40Hz) and 300Hz it require quite different capacities and quite different  strength from the drivers and from the enclosures.

Rgs,
Romy

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-12-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
i_should_coco
UK
Posts 15
Joined on 08-25-2005
Post #: 5
Post ID: 2842
Reply to: 2837
Being more specific
Hi Romy,

 Romy the Cat wrote:

Pete,

I do not think that it makes a sense to searched for “LF for use with Vitavox S2”. Do you think that there are good LF to use with Vitavox S2 and there are good LF to use with other drivers? I do not think so. The good LFs are good by themselves and they might not be good for any practical driver.

Yes, I guess this would be the case, I should have been more specific. What I would like is an LF channel(s) to use below 500Hz. Using an S2 kind of sets this as the upper limit, which is what I really meant.

I'm also interested in matching the character/tone/speed of the S2 if possible (for better or worse) to avoid creating a discontinuity. Or are you saying, a good LF system will match with any driver?

A complete LF solution to my mind includes how we crossover, so we tackle the whole system.

 Romy the Cat wrote:

Whatever solution you might chose be advised that it is hardly unlikely that a single channel would be able to handle everything from 500Hz and down.  To produce 40Hz (real 40Hz) and 300Hz it require quite different capacities and quite different  strength from the drivers and from the enclosures.

This makes perfect sense, and I was worried you might say something like that. Unfortunately, due to size, cost, etc. I will have to accept some compromise. Actually, I have a pair of sealed-box subwoofers which I was given, and I would expect these to be useful below 100Hz, so it's possible I could use these, in which case, I just need to take care of mid/upper bass. The alternative is to attempt 50Hz to 500Hz with one channel and accept the compromises. I also don't expect to get it right first time!

I'm open to all suggestions, I've only become interested in building speaker systems fairly recently, and the more I learn, the less I seem to know!

Cheers,
Pete
Page 1 of 1 (5 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Problems with horns: upper bass ..  Must it be about loading?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     109  1171687  03-25-2005
  »  New  45Hz Bass Horn..  Can We Ever be Saved From Ourselves?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     23  315643  09-19-2006
  »  New  Vitavox ak151 in klipschorn..  Please spare me from those questions....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     1  26418  09-20-2006
  »  New  A right midbass solution for Altec 515G...  Its even possible to make my midbass......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     21  198829  05-06-2007
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