GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site - Full range Melquiades implementation

02-23-2011

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decoud
United Kingdom
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Full range Melquiades implementation

For anyone interested in building a full range Melquiades I have a spare set of drilled aluminium cases, output and power transformers, offered at below cost. Apologies for sub-optimal photography. Please contact for more details.

Regards, d

02-23-2011

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oxric
Posts 194
Joined on 02-12-2010

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Unconsummated Melquiades? What a shame!

Hi Decoud:

I cannot but help noticing that you are based in the UK (like myself presently), and since I am not the only one considering building the Melquiades at some point, it might be of interest to many readers, if you have the time and inclination, to explain in this thread why you decided to give up on the Melquiades. I imagine that assembling the parts is rather time consuming and to leave this project just short of execution at this late stage is rather galling.

Were you able to source most of the components from the UK, or did you have to source from the US in part? What about the imprtant parts such as the transformers, did you order them from the same supplier as Romy and if not in what way do they differ?

Lastly, would you mind mentioning what sort of price you have in mind for the parts and whether you are selling as a lot or would you separate the parts?

All the best
Rakesh

02-23-2011

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decoud
United Kingdom
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The Melq is very much alive

Hi Rakesh,

No, I have not abandoned the project: these are simply surplus to requirements owing to the way in which I will procure the thing ultimately. There is no difficulty in sourcing parts - suitable transformer makers have been mentioned here already, I used www.promitheusaudio.com - and the other items are easy to find in the UK from the usual places. The output transformers are nanocrystalline amorphous; power transformers and chokes are custom made by the same maker. I don't imagine it would be that time consuming to build - I just have very little free time and so did not end up doing it myself. It is on offer as a lot, at £1000, together with a complement of valves.

Best, d

02-23-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

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4 questions.

Decoud, I have 4 questions to ask

The configuration of chasses you use implies that input has to be in the mid of the amp in front. I however, do not see it. So, where is the input and why it is too far from the first grid?

What brand/made/specification output transformer you used?

What loudspeaker you drive with this amp

How do you find the sound of the amp? If you do not mind then can you give more details about the amp sound this one, preferably about what you do not like.

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

02-23-2011

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decoud
United Kingdom
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Post #:	6
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Work in progress

Romy, apologies for being unclear: the amp is not yet built: this is just a spare chassis I am offering for others who may wish to build it too. Inputs and outputs have not yet been added to the chassis. I therefore cannot comment on the sound yet but will do once the thing is ready; the speakers are Danley SH50 (http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/synergy_horn.asp?model=SH%2050). The output transformers were made by Promitheus Audio (www.promitheusaudio.com) as specified in your description.
Regards, D

02-23-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
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Post #:	7
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Danley speakers and Melquiades

decoud wrote:
Romy, apologies for being unclear: the amp is not yet built: this is just a spare chassis I am offering for others who may wish to build it too. Inputs and outputs have not yet been added to the chassis. I therefore cannot comment on the sound yet but will do once the thing is ready; the speakers are Danley SH50 (http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/synergy_horn.asp?model=SH%2050). The output transformers were made by Promitheus Audio (www.promitheusaudio.com) as specified in your description.
Regards, D

Hm, that is interesting. I do not know Danley speakers and I never heard the Danley SH50 but I would have a concern about them. According to the paper they drop impedance to 3,5R:

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/SH%2050%20Spec%20Sheet.PDF

… which is OK, you will be able to take care of it by changing the loading the output stage accordingly. My primary concern is that I do not know what kind of drivers Dan Danley in his speakers. The 100dB sensitivity is irrelevant in this case. The specification suggests 1000W continues. With this power it shall be very serious current handling in VC, consequentially a high cone mass and many other things. If so I wonder how complaint they will be for minimum currents. It is very possible that Danley, as a pro speaker, uses heavy VC drivers, very beefed up suspension and ceramic magnets. These types of the drivers need to be driven by SS powerful amplification and I am not sure if 10-20W SET would be a right choice.

I might be wrong but I do have a lot of suspicions in this idea.

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

02-24-2011

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oxric
Posts 194
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Post ID:	15622
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Thanks for the info but surely you could be clearer.

Hi D,

Thanks for the information and the email, but I would think you might be clearer as to exactly what's included in your offer for sale, and maybe list and add prices of what these have cost new. These are not commonly available parts with readily accessible price lists, so any potential buyer, such as myself, can see exactly what are potential savings of buying from you.

If we disregard the enclosures, which in all honesty, to my taste anyway, are aesthetically revolting and functionally of little actual benefit in building Melquiades, then what one is buying is really the transformers. Their specs and prices paid, plainly stated, as opposed to being referred to earlier specs discussed in the Melquiades thread (and there are a few of these), would be helpful and inspire confidence in what one is really buying from you.

Kind regards
Rakesh

02-24-2011

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oxric
Posts 194
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Mystified.

decoud wrote:

No, I have not abandoned the project: these are simply surplus to requirements owing to the way in which I will procure the thing ultimately.

Hi D.,

I imagine I am not the only one to be wondering about this so I will ask the glaringly obvious. What could you possibly mean by the above? You have not abandoned the Melquiades project, but you are selling items which are at the heart of it? Did you order multiple sets of transformers just in case you wanted to build more than one Melquiades and have now decided that you have a spare set?

Or is it that you have decided to use other transformers?

Anyway, I just find the explanation you give for selling these parts rather mystifying...

Regards
Rakesh

02-24-2011

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decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 247
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Post #:	11
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Incivility

Rakesh, I really don't understand the need to pollute this thread with trivia. This is not a sales board. Anyone seriously interested in what is on offer here can contact me directly for details. I am not a salesman, I don't care to persuade anyone to buy it, and certainly not someone who feels the need to tell me - in an exhibition of rare social grace - that he finds the design revolting.

02-24-2011

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oxric
Posts 194
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"The lady doth protest too much, me thinks."

Hi D.,

Call yourself whatever you like, but you started this thread not me. I am genuinely interested (or rather was)and was thinking of buying your items but am puzzled that you are not clear, in either your email to me or anywhere in this thread, what it is exactly you are selling.

As for my comment on your choice of enclosure, it was meant in a slightly light-hearted manner. It is a dreadful black box, it's a statement of opinion and in a site where there is an abundance of subjective comment, I am surprised you find it a mark of 'incivility'. How do you reconcile rare social grace and a subjective comment, to which I am entitled, on the design of one of the ugliest black boxes I have seen in a very long time?! Either you are overly sensitive, or you do not really want to address the real issue, which is why in the world you are selling these transformers when you are still building Melquiades. It puzzles me and probably puzzles anyone trying to make sense of your sale.

By the way, there are of course more appropriate venues for selling equipment, which are dedicated to helping sellers sell stuff.

The title of your thread 'Full Range Melquiades Implementation' is misleading in suggesting that it is about your effort to implement Melqiades but you do not want to discuss that at all. You treat it like a 'For Sale' ad and do not welcome requests for information on the forum. The questions I asked are pertinent to anyone who faces the same questions as yourself when it comes to building or 'implementing' Melquiades. When you are asked about your decision to select the SH50 speaker to work with the Melquiades, your response is an evasive one liner,'we will see'.

You are less than forthcoming. You obfuscate and take offence at nothing. Coming from you, I take the accusation of being uncivil as a compliment. Please add the following to the list. You really don't have a clue.

Regards
Rakesh

02-24-2011

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decoud
United Kingdom
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Post #:	13
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In the sandpit

Mate, I gave you a list of exactly what is for sale. You persist with childishly obsessional and paranoid questioning, bizarrely on here rather than direct to me, as if anyone gives a fig why exactly I have a spare set of components. It is alright, you don't have to buy anything. Please get on with your - i am sure absolutely fascinating - life.

02-24-2011

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oxric
Posts 194
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You never gave me a list. No need to lie.

decoud wrote:
Mate, I gave you a list of exactly what is for sale. You persist with childishly obsessional and paranoid questioning, bizarrely on here rather than direct to me, as if anyone gives a fig why exactly I have a spare set of components. It is alright, you don't have to buy anything. Please get on with your - i am sure absolutely fascinating - life.

D.,

You never sent me a list. You gave me by email the measurements of the enclosure, and I am taking the liberty to quote from your email:

"The transformers and chokes are everything that is required for the
full range version. The standard cost of those alone exceeds a grand."

This is not a list and in fact does not answer at all the question of what exactly you are selling.

I am flattered to hear that nonetheless I have somehow managed to become part of your close circle of 'mates.' Please let me know when we can go on a boozing trip until we are so stoned we try to make horns out of traffic cones- should be right up your street by the sound of you.

Regards
Rakesh

02-24-2011

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decoud
United Kingdom
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Post #:	15
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Link alexia

I sent you a link to the comprehensive technical description of the two components of each case. To read a link you have to click on it, if it does not work for you copy and paste into a browser. I am sorry, I had no idea you needed help at that level. best, d

02-24-2011

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oxric
Posts 194
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"Comprehensive" as in complete? Really?

decoud wrote:

I sent you a link to the comprehensive technical description of the two components of each case. To read a link you have to click on it, if it does not work for you copy and paste into a browser. I am sorry, I had no idea you needed help at that level. best, d

D:

Here are the links you sent me:

http://www.hammondmfg.com/RM_U.htm

http://www.hoytmeter.com/.

The first one is a generic link to the enclosures and dimensions. The second one is to the Hoyt meters that are not even for sale according to your description. You certainly have not sent me a detailed list of the transformers, chokes, and tubes that you are selling. But never mind, I imagine you know why you do what you do, and respond to requests for information with effusive melodrama.

Regards
Rakesh

02-24-2011

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decoud
United Kingdom
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The audio onanist

The dimensions I gave you uniquely identify which of the cases in the list I used; I told you the meter was not for sale but helpfully suggested the brand if you want to buy the same or similar; the transformers, chokes etc are as specified in Romy's circuit diagram. It is has been obvious from the start, Rakesh, that you have no genuine interest in any of this. Anyone of normal psychology would have simply emailed me for more details rather than conducting this ridiculous and tedious conversation online and bizarrely demanding lists of receipts, motives, etc.

03-02-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
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Post #:	19
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Do not forget to do biasing test.

Decoud,

When and if you but Milq then I would encourage you to make an experiment. Disconnect all basing schema that I implemented for Milq and bias the driver stage with regular fix, buttery or cathode bias. The amp will be working perfectly fine. Note and share your observations about Sound. Then convert it to the Milq’s basing schema and feel free to comment how do you feel Sound was affected.

Rgs, the Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-03-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
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The Milq’s Newton Bias

decoud wrote:
I shall try it; do you suggest it as a test of whether or not mating the Milq with the SH50 screws up the sound irredeemably anyway? Rgds, d

Nope, it has nothing to do with ability or disability of Milq to drive SH50. Milq has a lot of built up to facilitate bias that might be accomplished by much cheaper and more convenient means. However in my estimation only THAT bias makes the Milq to sound in the way I like it. This Newton Bias as Dima and I call it does make very interesting impact to Sound and I feel it worth to make a simple experiment to confirm it. I do remember very vividly what I first got it and I feel it was very educational, at least to me. You might find it useful to see the difference as well.

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

05-19-2012

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
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Good.

Interesting, decoud. If you build the exact schematic of Milq then share your experience about the building process and the final amp calibration. Did you detect any need to make any correction to hit the right operation modes? What OPT you used? The key in the amp is quality of OPT, the driver and the driver’s bias. I would strongly advise to try running the amp with no gas tubes (juts as an experiment) and to see how it impacts sound. I do not know the SH-50 speaker but of cause it wools be interesting to hear your observation about sound. There are some minor things that might be tuned in Milq that would navigate sound here and there… Let me know if you need any assistance with it.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

	Target	Threads for related reading	Most recent post in related threads	Forum	Replies	Views	Started
»	New	Melquiades For Dummies™ - step by step...	Amp still open...	Melquiades Amplifier Forum	28	213496	08-29-2007
»	New	Building Melquiades: Chronicle of full-range..	VR2 issue leading to jump in current on 6C33 tube...	Melquiades Amplifier Forum	44	433087	06-09-2006
»	New	Building Melquiades: questions and answers...	PeaceMAT XS™...	Melquiades Amplifier Forum	96	564954	10-09-2007

	Target	Threads for related reading	Most recent post in related threads	Forum	Replies	Views	Started
»	New	Melquiades For Dummies™ - step by step...	Amp still open...	Melquiades Amplifier Forum	28	213496	08-29-2007
»	New	Building Melquiades: Chronicle of full-range..	VR2 issue leading to jump in current on 6C33 tube...	Melquiades Amplifier Forum	44	433087	06-09-2006
»	New	Building Melquiades: questions and answers...	PeaceMAT XS™...	Melquiades Amplifier Forum	96	564954	10-09-2007