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  »  New  Denon 103: myths and the reality..  A young but mature horowitz...  Analog Playback Forum     29  415812  06-08-2004
07-02-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Ed
Posts 6
Joined on 04-01-2005
Post #: 1
Post ID: 1132
Reply to: 1132
The Church of Denon 103C

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Hello Romy,

Just thought I'd post my latest re-visit to this cartridge.I've played with this over
the last 2 years on and off between Helikon/VDH MC10.

 It was ok but did not make a big deal,so I carried on with the Lyra which was fine
but not what I was looking for - a bit hifi I guess.The VDH was retipped by the man
himself a few years back but didn't seem to sing when ever I tried it.

All along I thought the 103c's loading was 40ohm so used this setting on the Ear 324
phono tx's- WRONG,this should have been 15ohm if played through step ups.I found
a article on the net which gave you the equiv.resistor value loading (40ohm = 500ohm,
15ohm = 100ohm,4ohm = 50ohm) and the spec.sheet for the 103 says 100ohms of
course not 500ohms loading.
 I simply mis-read the 40ohm impedence figure,infact I lost the info.

This is the best music cartridge I have had - but it is tricky fitting it to SME V, you 
can easily break the tonearm leads because of the wide spacing Denon pins.I use a
headshell spacer which helps with the fit.

I shall sell the Heli and upgrade to another 103.
 

Cheers,Ed
07-04-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,159
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 2
Post ID: 1141
Reply to: 1132
Re: The Church of Denon 103C

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Ed,
 
I never had this cartridge. As I understand the “C” should have identical motor with the 103D but have a different needle profile. I presume that it sounds similar to 103D, doesn’t?

Rgs,
The caT

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-06-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Ed
Posts 6
Joined on 04-01-2005
Post #: 3
Post ID: 1153
Reply to: 1141
Re: The Church of Denon 103C

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Hello Romy,

I guess I'll go for the 103R at a later date - looking at the specs on this one the loading is the same with a lower output,but I'm thinking it might handle those 25min + LP sides better from the opera world etc.
Being half Italiano I need my Puccini,well I need everything.

Someone I know has just sent his 103R off to get a ruby cantilever fitted.

Ciao,Ed 
07-07-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Brian Clark
Ongar, UK
Posts 78
Joined on 10-02-2004
Post #: 4
Post ID: 1154
Reply to: 1153
Re: The Church of Denon 103C

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 Ed wrote:
Someone I know has just sent his 103R off to get a ruby cantilever fitted.


Why, wasn't stock *H*I*F*I* enough for him? <grin>

Brian
07-07-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Ed
Posts 6
Joined on 04-01-2005
Post #: 5
Post ID: 1156
Reply to: 1154
Goodbye Ruby on Tuesday.

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 Brian Clark wrote:
 Ed wrote:
Someone I know has just sent his 103R off to get a ruby cantilever fitted.


Why, wasn't stock *H*I*F*I* enough for him?

Brian


Hello Daddy 'O,

Well,the team who are performing this manoeuvre sent a note of apology about when
they mounted it a coil was damaged,hence they are replacing it with another.

Also,
I think I am wrong about the 103R stylus it's the same has the 103C (conical 0.2mm),
or one site says that the 103R has a  'Needle 16.5 micron round pin'.



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Suzy Creamcheese.
07-08-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
IslandPink
Posts 18
Joined on 02-08-2005
Post #: 6
Post ID: 1163
Reply to: 1156
Re: 103

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Morning Mr. Natural

Brian - be careful - you never know who's watching  ... 

"Why, wasn't stock *H*I*F*I* enough for him? "

You're getting the wrong idea about this . Anyway , it's not ruby , more sapphire, but I agree they're similar . I would say the lack of 'hi-fi' ness of the Denon is most likely due to its Alnico magnets . I'm hoping the lighter ( stiffer ) cantilever and better ( although this is debatable ) diamond will give the 103R some extra finesse in the treble, without losing the midrange magic and presence . The Dyna XX-1L after all , has modern-style cantilever (boron) and stylus but has much of the same charm of the Denon but with more of everything, without sounding 'hi-fi' . If you want a good example of 'HiFi' , try the 17D2...

As far as I'm aware , Ed , the 103 normal and the 103R have the same stylus, these days . There's oodles of info on the different types if you search on Vinyl asylum . Someone has a gallery of about 20 variants .

That's enough for now ..

MJ
07-08-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Brian Clark
Ongar, UK
Posts 78
Joined on 10-02-2004
Post #: 7
Post ID: 1164
Reply to: 1163
Bejeweling the jewel
Flushed you! <>

We look forward to your future assesment MJ.
Certainly the speed of propagation through the stylus bar will be increased.

Hopefully riveted cymbals shall corruscate as shimmering sunlight on the surface of a deep, dark pool ruffled by gentle zephyrs (not the Z-Cars variety)

Brian.
07-08-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
IslandPink
Posts 18
Joined on 02-08-2005
Post #: 8
Post ID: 1166
Reply to: 1164
Re: Bejeweling the jewel
Absolutely .
I was hoping to have impressions already, but events took an unexpected course.
I'm also trying to get a re-tipped Dyna XX-1L from same people via a dealer, so they are busy with my stuff for sure right now .
The new cant and diamond for the Denon was costing about £160 , which seemed worth it , if the combination of properties was right .
MJ
07-08-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Brian Clark
Ongar, UK
Posts 78
Joined on 10-02-2004
Post #: 9
Post ID: 1167
Reply to: 1166
Re: Bejeweling the jewel

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Cost isn't extortionate for such an interesting experiment.
I don't think Denon experimented with gem-stone cantilevers, that's very much a Dyna thing, though I believe they used boron for the 103M - which Romy has.

Brian.
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