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   Home » Analog Playback» The K&K SE hybrid phono stage: a report (55 posts, 3 pages)
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06-15-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 26
Post ID: 7589
Reply to: 7586
Tuning and trouble shooting with "difficult" music

When the AC and the recording are good, the K&K tracks big choruses and piano fortisimos cleanly, as well, the first time in my hi-fi experience I have had a phono stage that can do this. 

The trouble with the really big stuff is that it's often the recording/pressing itself that gets swamped.

I can usually hear the engineers twiddling knobs to compensate.

Before I installed and adapted the ML2s, I had pretty much given up on a wide range of recorded classical music; especially the big stuff.  But even though I am primarily concerned with previously-off-limits classical now, I still don't have nearly the system headroom to do full-tilt orchestra/chorus, cannons, pipe organs, etc.

However, FWIW, my present limits with classical music repro are not imposed by the K&K.

Best regards,
Paul S

06-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 27
Post ID: 7683
Reply to: 7589
Err... The "house" cord is better...
Sneaking up on the AC cord for the K&K, I recently added a close approximation of the power cords I made for the ML2s.  These cords use 3X 12 ga. copper magnet wires tightly sleeved with poly tubing and braided, with Onyx pure copper plugs.  I connected all three wires to the 3-prong wall plug, but I left the ground wire disconnected at the component/IEC end.  This way, according to my shaky reasoning, the mains ground wire "draws off" stray EMI/RFI better than it does when this crap is allowed to "ride" the ground wire into the chassis/circuit and then needs to be drawn off by the dedicated chassis ground.

Who knows if I am on the right track in terms of electronics/physics?  All I can say is, it works better this way in terms of sonics, including less noise/more music.  Residual hum was barely audible at "24" with the ground lifted at the wall.  The number is "28" with the ground wire cut at the IEC end.  Is it odd that I have been listening as loud as 24 for the first time, since I installed the first (ground-cut-at-wall) power cord?  I can't even imagine listening at 28...

Paul S
09-12-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 28
Post ID: 8235
Reply to: 7683
Bass, Overload and Tesla's Ghost

This post is the phono-relevant part of info carried over from my recent "better tubes" post in the ML2 thread.

Subsequent listening has established that the electricity during that session was better than I'd thought at the time (dammit!).  Be that as it may, the combination of decent electricity and  better input tubes for the ML2s yielded bass and apparently-unlimited tracking and wide-band power like I've not gotten to date, and frankly I had not thought my system capable of this level of performance.  No noise, no fade and no "quit" from the K&K during any of this.  I mentioned in the ML2 post that harmonics were not fully developed yet, but since I have gotten better in the past it means that the K&K can do it/is not the culprit now.

So, I take this to mean that the K&K is still more than holding its own in my system.  In fact it has helped me to get considerably more from my system by "improving" right along with other impovements, and it has helped the ML2's new input tubes with redeeming my "fading" cartridge.

Now, if the effing power would only stay good...

Paul S

03-08-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 29
Post ID: 9972
Reply to: 8235
Fancy Cardas Caps: Good, to Better, to Worse in 1 Year?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I have reason to suspect that my beloved large Cardas couplers have continued to loose HF past the point I described as "settling".  HF is no longer correct but rather attenuated relative to LF, and clarity has begun to suffer, too.

I will ask K&K's Kevin Carter if he knows more about this problem.  I will also try Cardas...

Remember, these Cardas caps are not oilers, but they are +/- regular, modern film caps, so I admit I did not give a lot of thought to reliability, apart from using them well within spec'd voltage, etc.  Of course, audio signal path use is a special case; but as near as I can tell, Cardas touts these for just this purpose.

I hope Cardas has not already circled the wagons, as manufacturers are wont to do in response to defects.


Paul S
03-08-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 30
Post ID: 9974
Reply to: 9972
Need new capacitors?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Paul S wrote:
I have reason to suspect that my beloved large Cardas couplers have continued to loose HF past the point I described as "settling".
Well, it might just be the electricity, but if you need to replace them, maybe it is time to try the World's Best Capacitors!!!

Adrian

03-08-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 31
Post ID: 9975
Reply to: 9974
I Suppose If I Say I'm Curious,
fiogf49gjkf0d
then everyone here will just read, "gullible".  However I admit to being totally hypnotized by the Duelund spiel, which I find oddly compelling despite no real, "serious" information apart from the sort mystical, quasi-reverential rhetoric that attends Feastrex, Shindo, Audio Note, etc. "literature".

Oh, well...  too bad 4.7 uF only comes as 200V!  Otherwise, I would be obliged to pony up almost $1k... for 2 CAPS!  Hell, that would put a pretty good dent in a PP2000 (which I hope you will say more about soon)!

Meanwhile, I'm putting grease on all my contact points instead of dealing with any of this stuff...

Best regards,
Paul S
03-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 32
Post ID: 9977
Reply to: 9975
Dueland capacitors
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Paul S wrote:
then everyone here will just read, "gullible". However I admit to being totally hypnotized by the Duelund spiel, which I find oddly compelling despite no real, "serious" information apart from the sort mystical, quasi-reverential rhetoric that attends Feastrex, Shindo, Audio Note, etc. "literature". Oh, well... too bad 4.7 uF only comes as 200V! Otherwise, I would be obliged to pony up almost $1k... for 2 CAPS!
Actually, I believe they can be tailor made to your exact specifications, which at that price they should be. I thought they came as a 630V version also. It is a very intriguing company, because they address many of the issues of mechanical resonance and electromagnetic field asymmetry that I feel are very important to good sound. I view the circuit like a series of channels for water to flow through, and we want the water to flow effortlessly. If you think about the plumbing in any big building, you know the trouble you can run into, even when all the pipes are hooked up "properly." There is more to it that that.

As to the PP2000, more on that later this week.

Adrian
03-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 9978
Reply to: 9977
Duelund caps: sanity check.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 drdna wrote:
Actually, I believe they can be tailor made to your exact specifications, which at that price they should be.

It is not a thread about cup but I still….

This is always an interesting question to me – where is the threshold between rational and irrational when I think about capacitors.  The expensive caps made to exact specifications sound like rational but there are no expensive caps that need to hit exact specification. The small caps on some cases need to be very exact but slam caps are not expensive. The large and expensive caps do not need to be exact, nether in uF number, nor in leakage, nor in impedance, nor in any other specification. It is not to mention that capacitance almost always is very flexible parameter and precision of value is necessary only in case of caps use for filtration. However, capacitance doe not filter itself but only along with impedance, so it always possible to play with impedance to moderate the required value of capacitors. Therefore I do not mind the caps to be cheaper and only at fixed values.

Now about the threshold between rational and irrational. Duelund makes huge 300uF caps, 25 kilograms with 1 kilometer of metal in each.  I am sure it is insanely expensive but I question if it is justifiable. It is imposable to control tension and properly damp 1 kilometer of foil in those caps. I never heard them of course but I would very much would like to see those 300uF Duelund caps compete with regular commercial grade electrolytic that would be 1000 times smaller and 1000 less expensive.  I have a feeling that Duelund will not be effective, particularly if electrolytic is used with active basing.

Duelund_Caps.jpg

OK, let to look from a different perspective – my favorite perspective – cost bur solution. The 300uF, low voltage Duelund caps probably meant for speakers crossovers. Those values in speakers crossovers are useful only for low-passing of bass (the area where active based electrolytic destroy any competition) . So, what Duelund offers for low-passing of bass? A $2000 capacitor? Does anybody feel that the Duelund’s solution price-wise very much competes with idea of multi-amping? Do anybody understand that using a dedicated amp for bass and a few nF capacitor in amp’s input is order of magnitude more interesting solution then to use a “magic caps”?

Well, I am not against of what Duelund offers but I would call to some sanity in this subject. Their small, up to 5uf caps might be good but why shell they be expensive?

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-11-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 34
Post ID: 9990
Reply to: 9977
Since I Brought It Up
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, Kevin Carter says he's had no trouble with his own Big Cardas parafeed caps, and his caps have been in service for 3 years.  He did not say anything about anyone else, but he did suggest there are plenty of other likely suspects where HF issues (etc.) are concerned.

We'll see.

Meanwhile, I recently learned that the big Cardas caps use the same 2-in-1, double-value-caps-in-series (as an anti-induction strategy) that the big Mundorf caps use.  I gather that the 2-in-1 Cardas caps are physically inter-leaved, so I now suppose that the "co-mingled di-electric" I mentioned (that Cardas mentions) earlier is not a Teflon/poly composite material but rather it describes one cap made of each  material, rolled to inter-leave and connect to the other in series.

Gee, that's great...  Now, the hair-shirt-ist in me is thinking that a less-complicated cap would "have to be better"...

In other words, my own brain would overload and self-destruct from audio-neuroses if I did not break the feedback loop with regular applications of pure skepticism, cynicism and self-abnigation.

Paul S
04-05-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 35
Post ID: 10162
Reply to: 9990
False Alarm...
fiogf49gjkf0d

"Cap problem"?  Naturally, it was the BEP, again.  @#*&%!!!

This afternoon the electricity was as good as it's ever been, and things sounded even better than I ever planned (ie, almost as good as I could imagine...).

IOW, the Cardas cap is NOT a problem, in and of itself.

IOW, it looks like my "phono problems" will be solved as soon as I figure out the BEP.

Paul S

10-04-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 36
Post ID: 11911
Reply to: 10162
New MOSFETS and New Adjustments
fiogf49gjkf0d
Another K&K user contacted me recently, and he subsequently sent me new MOSFETS to swap with those I had in my unit.  Original MOSFETs were Supertex DN2540.  New MOSFETs are IXSYS 1N100D.

The only reason I swapped these was out of curiosity.  The other guy said it was "magic", and I wanted to hear for myself what that meant.

The swap required that I remove two of the three boards in my older unit, along with the big Cardas caps and one ground wire, in order to get the MOSFETs out and in without doing a lot of colateral damage.  Another thing I had t do was re-trim the 6922 filament current that was raised too high by the MOSFET swap.  I put shrink tubing on a small, plastic-handled screwdriver in order to avoid shorts while working in the crowded space while the K&K was energized.

The other guy said he'd settled on 1.68V for the new value.  I found this value made my own upper midrange too prominent, so I backed it off to 1.6V.  After an hour of listening (with the unit settling down) I dialed it back up to 1.62V, for an increase in sonic "benefits".

Overall, I like the change.  There is greater clarity and better articulation, with no penalties.  There is also a greatly increased sense of "height" in the soundfield, and the entire soundfield is larger.

This is the first time I have messed with any of the operating values in this unit.  In fact, I never really thought about it much until the new MOSFETS arrived.  Now, I am very interested to continue experimenting with this variable.

These changes do not seriously affect the K&K's character, but they are significant.  I will add to this when I have had more time with the altered unit.

Yes, it has occurred to me that the change in operating values might have more to the changes in sound than the new MOSFETS do.

FYI, this is a K&K "approved" change.

Paul S

10-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 37
Post ID: 11930
Reply to: 11911
Tubes (etc.) vs Phono Curves
fiogf49gjkf0d

Rooting around for manufacturers' operating curve/info on 6922s I came across a short paper I got years ago from electronics genius Roger A. Modjeski.  In a nutshell, RM talked about internal variables in tubes that affect their electrical characteristics, and hence their sound.  He specifically mentioned the effects of ESR and other electrical paramenters on circuits, along with inevitable EQ shifts resulting from the individual tube's effect on loop gain due to its simple and in-circuit gain characteristics in RIAA circuits.  Cold water in one's face, to say the least.

To think of tubes like this certainly puts a new twist on old observations about new vs NOS tubes, or one brand vs another in a given circuit.  And since no "circuit" is complete until the fat lady sings, this is effectively causing me to re-think my approach to tube selection and use.

I actually prefer to use SS wherever I think I ccan get away with it.  Since I have been unable to get around tubes for certain applications, perhaps I will go back to where I was with the AI M3A, which is to say, open to experimenting with operating points.

Regarding RAM's own "products", it may have been about 1988, or thereabouts, that I "heard" Modjeski's original RM-9 amp and RM-5 phono-preamp.  I bought the amp because it was dead neutral; and I actually passed on the phono-preamp for the same reason...

I put this post in with the K&K because of my previously-stated idea that changing operating points might be the biggest difference between the MOSFETS in that unit, and RAM's ideas seem to build on those thoughts.

Paul S

02-06-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 38
Post ID: 12870
Reply to: 11930
Caps du Jour
fiogf49gjkf0d
Remember the death and "re-birth" (via good electricity) of the big Cardas caps?  Well, it finally got to where things were not made good enough anymore by good electricity, so I went on the hunt again.  This time I settled on Sonicaps from Sonic Craft, namely the 5.1 uF 200V film and foil Gen. I, "bypassed" by .033 uF 450V Platinum (teflon).  Notice I did not go down in value from the Cardas, what with the R in this case being 10.5k Ohms.

To my knowledge, these caps are single-wound, nothing "special" except high-zoot electrical specs, and someone actually did targeted listening listening to them through development.  Right out of the gate, they were quieter than what the big Cardas had become, but withal the new caps obviously needed breaking in, so I hunkered down and endured them for 50 hrs or so before listening seriously.  At this point, my ambience is back, and song lyrics are easier to make out than ever, without "listening in" to hear them, and without vocal "highlighting", other than what the mix provides.

Interlude:
I suppose it's funny that I have never tried the TRT Dynamicaps, since what they say at their website while talking about them is pretty close to exactly what I think about caps, what they do wrong and how they should be made to sound.  Maybe I should have tried the Dymanicaps, but I have heard TRT's other cap models, each of which were preceded by similar spiels, and I was not impressed with them.  Still, I refer readers to the TRT site/Dynamicap spiel, for educational reasons, if nothing else. And, who knows, maybe they are OK.

Meanwhile, Back at the Ranch:
Likewise, I am not impressed with the Sonicaps; but I am pleased, if you know what I mean.  After only 60 -70 hrs, they are pitched considerably better than the Cardas were, apart from a brief period when the Cardas "settled" through to the right spot; but then they kept on going down, as HF went AWOL.  Also, bass with the Sonicaps is already as good as the Cardas ever were.

I admit that I actually like some of the classic "audiophile" stuff, like spatial ambience and extended frequency response, and the Sonicaps are starting to do a nice job with these things.  However, I first have to have adequate tonal variation that comes from saturation, FR harmonics, timbral balance, texture and intent, or I just don't care about the other stuff.  And the Sonicaps are moving in the right direction with these things, too, already plenty more than where the Cardas had slid to before I replaced them.

Being as greedy as I am hopeful, it seems like these caps are good enough now and they seem to be getting better.  I can't say whether they are fairly priced, but I can say I've paid considerably more for what ultimately turned out to be less.

Of course I'll cry like a spoiled child if these go bad, too...

Paul S
02-14-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 39
Post ID: 12931
Reply to: 12870
Good --- with a Twist
fiogf49gjkf0d
OK, this turns out not to be a no-brainer. These caps are definitely quieter than anything I've used to date.  At times, there is a sense that "something is missing", but then the "missing" frequency pops up loud and clear, apropos the music (as opposed to the "sound effects").  This has actually been disconcerting, and it is causing me to re-think (again) the "detail" I expect from my system, since it appears in this situation that much of the "detail" has been ubiquitous errant noise (A sort of "over saturation") centered around the lower treble. In this case, HF and LF are appropriate, as transients bear out, including the "missing" frequencies, but the "ambient" "HF" "background" (noise) is just not there.  I think this will turn out to be a very good thing, but it is also kind of weird, as the caps continue to break in and as the inevitable bad electricity inevitably confuses the issues.

For some time I have wanted to start a thread (or expand an old thread) on Ambience; but right now it is enough to say that there have been flashes of truly "spectacular" ambience with these caps, where the music comes from the instruments and the "sound field" includes "sound from the instruments" and recorded reverberations (real or added in) but no (or very little) errant noise "in the air" that typically "designates" "ambience".  By this I mean to say that one does not actually "hear" the HF and LF that define the ambience, but one merely "perceives" a sense of "place" that is distinct even from the usual "recorded ambience".  When it's right, it gives the uncanny sense that the sound in the "soundfield" is "real", which can be quite startling, really.

I well remember how confused I felt when I first listened to the ML2s; they are that different.  And so it is with these caps, I think.  I will keep listening and I will update this report as the caps continue to break in and I get a better handle on them.  Right now, I'm thinking I will put some in the ML2s, as well, if I can mtch the voltages.

Paul S
02-19-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 40
Post ID: 12977
Reply to: 9978
Twogoodears on the Duelund caps.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Here is the link, though I have no idea whose words he is quoting:

http://twogoodears.blogspot.com/2010/02/again-about-duelunds-coherent-audio-pio.html

The caps are $1000 per 630V/1uF. So, I wonder what those super expensive caps might be used. The 630V suggest it to be used in powers supply. However 1uF in nothing in PS. I know that there are many fools out there who make 300B/2A3/45/10 amps with 4-8uF B+ filtration but those amps sound like shit and “better” caps would not help to them.

To use Duelund in speaker level crossovers would , make more sense but it needed 100V AC in there and the huge 630V would  be hardly usable, not to mention that 100V cap would be 3 times less expensive.

The use of the Duelund in line-level filtration would make more sense. However at the line-level 630V hardly needed and RL filter would kill any, even the best C filter.

So, the only use of Duelund I see for bypass of PS. If so then why people talk about good sound of Duelund but do not mention what were the main filtering cap? The bypass kike only at HF, so commenting about the Duelund sound I think people need to inform at what frequency the Duelund cap is kick in.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-19-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 116
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 41
Post ID: 12978
Reply to: 12977
Wisdom is all
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Roman...

thanks for the wise tips... I'm - at best - totally new and virgin to this very topic... I'm (sort-of) diarying my quest and search... I humbly hi-jacked, better... took ispiration, from you, Adrian, Paul on RtC, and Jimmy Auw's, and Duelund's hypes & saga... aehm,  "literature";-) plus others [Jorge (Mexico City), Albert (Vancouver), Tim (Paris), Peter (Berlin), etc.] - see the quoted links in TGE...

I'm aware filtering in tube amps and crossovers are different cakes... nonetheless, feel this "terra oscura" worth some further investigation on my (and everyone interested) part. 


"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
02-19-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 42
Post ID: 12982
Reply to: 12978
Again, use “price” as a design tool
fiogf49gjkf0d

It is nothing to do with Wisdom.  It is my principle of application of “cost” as a common sense design tool. I do not bitch that Duelund caps are expensive. I just try to find a rational solution for using them that would embrace their price. My argument is that with $1000 per 1uF the Duelund caps not useful. Let me show it to you.

The high quality super-expensive cap makes since to use in first order high-pass filters for HF drivers. Let pretend that we have 8R driver then at 2.000Hz we need 10uF per channel, at 500Hz we need 40uF per channel. No one would suggest $80K of capacitors in this filter. With 16R driver and crossover point of 1000Hz we have 10uF. With lower voltage of caps, not he 630V, the cost would go 2-3 time lower, so I presume that 20uF of 200V would be around $3-$4K. With this cost of capacitors in filter the total coast of the solution begin to be competitive with a cost of multi-amping solution with DSET.

Let say that a cost of HF DSET for the same driver will be $5K-$7K. In this HF DSET for filtration purpose it might be used a small fraction of mF and very low voltage cap (it might be Duelund) that would be MUCH better than any larger Duelund cap. It is not to mention that in multi-amping it might be used the RL shunt filtration that would be light miles away and superior then ANY capacitive filtration. The cost of multi-amping and Duelund C-filtration is competitive but the multi-amping   has so much more advantages!

So, my point is that there is only restricted cost in speaker-level crossover. When this cost goes up to much (like in case of using Duelund caps) then here is always a multi-amping DSET consideration as an alternative. An multi-amping DSET has disadvantage to be costly but if one already waste time for better caps then why don’t do it properly and to invest the virtually the same amount of money for a pair of extra DSETs?

Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-28-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 43
Post ID: 13046
Reply to: 12982
What was Lost is Found (and Then Some...)
fiogf49gjkf0d
This has been one hell of a ride!  The new caps had gotten so bad yesterday and this morning that I was almost convinced (again...) that my cartridge was finally, really shot this time; what else could it be?  The upper mids and lower treble had sucked out so badly that it affected everything from the way a mix sounded to the overall presentation, including absolutely terrible stereo, but all with the same "calm" background, clarity, fantastic extension, ambience, bass and dynamics as before.  I never heard before, nor could I even conceive of such a lop-sided fault in otherwise-excellent caps.  And since it had to be my cartridge, I was going to have to find and develop a replacement cartridge at the same time I was trying to break in new caps!  AArrggg...!!!

As all this transpired, I dimly remembered that Jeff (Sonic Craft) told me to wait at least 100 hrs on the 5 uF Gen 1s and at least 200 hrs on the .033 uF Platinum (Teflon) bypass caps.  I had gotten "hints" and "foreshadowings" of truly exellent "traits" from soon after I started listening with them in the circuit, but I admit that the overall turn for the worse had put a big knot in my stomach by late morning today!

I suppose I can assume that the electricity was excellent, but about 2 hours in today, the worm turned, and I am so glad I waited!  Not only did the upper-mids and lower-treble return to exactly where and how they should be, I wound up with everything I wanted, and more.  Pitch, timbre, weight, scale, texture, bass, ambience, dynamics, detail, clarity, inflection, expression, intent, drive  ---  everything.  These caps will not be for everyone, but I have tried to stay "literal" from the start, and these guys are so perfect electrically and so "not there" otherwise that they take my breath away.  And they were still getting better when I shut it down this afternoon.  I listened all afternoon at unprecedented levels, with drive, balance and power I never knew was available from my system.  Harmonics are so natural, it's uncanny.

How would I compare these to the big (and very expensive) Cardas caps?  Either I got a bad pair of Cardas, or...

These Sonic Caps are much better in terms of music AND sound (in this circuit...) than the high $$ Mundorf Ag or Ag/Au.

I will absolutely be putting the same combo into the ML2s.

Paul S
03-06-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 44
Post ID: 13096
Reply to: 13046
At Last, Undertones!
fiogf49gjkf0d

A big bonus is that pitch and harmonic structure have changed "correctly" to make them perfectly acceptable with my present speakers (a lazy boy's dream...), and the system, with LP source, is strong and rich enough to re-mine my record library.  I am even getting the elusive downward-developing harmonics, which is unbelievably cool.  I am amazed and delighted with the musical insight this affords.

I was sitting there listening today (Rubinstein's "25th Anniversary" Concert at Carnegie Hall), happy as a clam, when the left channel stuttered, then cleared its throat a few times, and then the soundfield suddenly opened up in all directions to swallow me whole.  I have had this sort of experience before, when the electricity was great, but never with such a range of clear energies and frequencies in the soundfield.  It's like a new drug.

Paul S

04-04-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 45
Post ID: 13255
Reply to: 13096
Stealth Maneuver
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yesterday, I finally got around to replacing the Schottky diodes in my unit with some original edition Fairchild "Stealth"  diodes, so named because they are supposed to be "undetectable" in the circuit with respect to noise (unlike the Schottkys).  I did not even try to do before and after noise measurements, since the only thing I care about is how it sounds.

The Stealths quiet things in a way I did not know they could be quieted, by damping or elimanating noise I had always thought of as part of the LP-sourced background.  And so far it seems to do this quieting at no cost to other areas of the sound, albeit there is the usual heightening of distinction between good and poor recordings.

The most obvious benefit is an increased sense of space.  Placement of instruments and voices is the same, and it remains dependent on the recording.  More details are available over a greater range of frequencies.  No change in bass, except slightly better percussive effects.

I want to say without confusing anyone that the LP sound is more "FM-like".  Of course there is much greater range, etc., but the space and the background suggest good FM to me now.

I will get back on this as soon as I get to hear the change with really good electricity.  Yeaterday the electricity was not great; still, the sound was wonderful until it got big and loud and complex.  I am eager to hear this big stuff playing cleanly, since I know from experience that it can do so now, when the electricity is good.

For those who care, the system can now "slow down" to complete "silence" with musical continuity.

Paul S
04-05-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 46
Post ID: 13259
Reply to: 13255
Sorry, but it sounds like BS.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Paul, what you wrote is absolute insanity. The Fairchild "Stealth" diodes are ultra-fast switching and ultra-soft recovery. I do not know their switching numbers but the best from this class do 30-40mS switching and it is very good. Schottkys in contrary have no reverse current at all by design. Also, if by switching the diodes you were able to get less noise that you “had always thought of as part of the LP-sourced background” then there is a LOT of wrong with this devises where you did it. The change of diodes does affect “noise” but it is not the noise that you can hear and confuse with LP noise. Also, be advised that all ultra-fast/ultra-soft diodes need ~ 20-30 days to sound stable, before, they have sound all over…. Anyhow, a lot of what you said just does not make any sense to me.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-05-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 47
Post ID: 13262
Reply to: 13259
Where the Wild Things Are
fiogf49gjkf0d
Sorry if that was too vague or convoluted.  Reading it again, it does sound like hopeful speculation, at best, and I realize I am also sputtering into describing my nascent perceptions.  Unfortunately, the crappy electricity yesterday did not allow me to explore it further, to refine my take.

Of course, I am not talking about "noise" like AC hum, or anything like that, but rather a sort of haze that "occupies space" in the "soundfield".

I will try to be more clear about this as soon as I get a chance, where free time and good power coincide.

If it turns out I was just tired or dim from huffing paint fumes, I'll say so.

Best regards,
Paul S
06-05-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 48
Post ID: 13709
Reply to: 13262
A Real Recommendation?
fiogf49gjkf0d
OK, back up on the diode horse again...

I don't remember if I mentioned it before, but I tried the "super quiet" Stealth diodes only out of curiosity, based on a very soft "recommendation" from Jeff at SonicCraft, and I did not throw away the Schottkys I took out, because I cannot say I ever noticed "problems" I could tie to them, so it would be nothing more than lost time and a few bucks if the Stealth didn't work out.

This morning the electricity was good, and I decided to try to target the Stealth diodes, in terms of their elolution, according to sonic results. The early perceptions did turn out to be "foreshadowings" that largely went awry soon after I wrote the love letter. Although the benefits did not entirely disappear, they did sort of alternately jumble up, re-shuffle  and separate until recently, and the sound kept getting harder and more immediate until a couple of days ago, then it started to loosen up again.  I double checked and re-set operation points to be sure those did not change before I started in today.

I have never really "listened for diodes" before, so pardon my thrashing. At this point I accept that the increased clarity and natural "ease" I have heard since the swap is from the diode swap, because it happened for the first time like this since the swap.

There is still a very direct reading, but now it remains "pleasant" enough to be in the room while my attention wanders, or I can listen without full attention right on axis and still "enjoy" all types of music I tried, and I also tried "detail tests" that the unit passed, so if there was "softening", there was no detail lost as a result of it. It also sounds like better "integration" of the sound qualities has finally happened, with no diminishment of detail at all frequencies, including background voices of all stripes and leads "buried" in a chorus.  Bass is "better" in some fairly subtle ways, but this remains in the context of one 15" BR woofer per side in a room with a raised floor and 1 ML2 per channel, FR. Bass notes really project from and hang tough to their fundamentals, with impact as good as I ever had, but this comes at the expense of some apparent diminishment when the fundemental is below my speakers' comfort level, ie, it does not just "change registers" like it used to, back when.  Bass within range of the speakers has a nice palette of pitch, tone, timbre, and the temporal qualitiies that we want. Timing is great; jazz swings and classical is expressive along those lines, still with a sense of integration and ease I have not had since my system was a good deal more simple and limited.

No, I won't "recommend" the swap; but the only "negative" was the more definite bass fundamentals, so otherwise, why not try it.

Paul S
03-04-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 49
Post ID: 19069
Reply to: 13709
How Do I Miss Thee?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Since I painted myself into a corner with only one tonearm and one cartridge, and my one cartridge has gone to the Ortofon Spa in DK, I am sans phono until my cartridge returns.  This means I have too much time to think about a phono stage, as opposed to using one, and I have been mulling over what I like and do not like about my K&K.

The main thing I do not like about the K&K is "not really its fault", I suppose, but wish it was not so affected by the electricity.  Of course this is what spawned my recent "minimum acceptable phono stage" thread.  And the truth is, I could happily live with this phono stage "forever" when it's at its best.  But with 350V on the rails, this puppy is not a viable candiate for any battery PS I am aware of.  Not that this would necessarily be a "solution", in this case, anyway.

I would say I don't like the tubes, but it isn't that so much as it is the idea of the tubes as  "variable" that I have "mixed feelings" about.  On the one hand, I actually like that tubes are so easy to "tune".  OTOH, I don't like it that tubes "drift" and wear out.

As for the sound, again, I do like it...  when it's at or near its best.  I would love to get from a "small", battery powered, 100% SS the Tone, "ambience", and "insight" I get from the K&K.

If in the meantime the Grid here works itself out, I might never make another post like this one.

Paul S
09-05-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 50
Post ID: 21960
Reply to: 19069
Catching Up on "Upgrades"
fiogf49gjkf0d
I just completed (DIY!) several "factory" "upgrades" to my SE phono stage. While I had no frustrations with the unit, I have been reading designer Kevin Carter's careful explanations of the changes he has worked out over the past few years. These mods have to do with effectively stiffening the power supply, also swinging more voltage with less significant noise and distortion, along with lowering output impedances. Another change had to do with finding a way to use better-sounding SS gain stages. I also added another VR, so I can control (play with) another operating point.

I guess it will take a while for the new parts to break in. I listened for several hours today. Electricity was OK in the morning, and it took a couple of hours before the new parts began to sour. At its best (so far) the "new" SE is pretty much what I'd hoped for, namely more of the same, and better; it has remained a "listening tool" that has only gotten more literal. Basically it's up to the artists. Good music poorly recorded sounds just like that, etc. etc. A couple of nice new tricks: undamped piano chords "ring off" with all strings sounding clearly; center fill is better.

I'm sure I will have more to say when the new parts come back to life, maybe 200 hrs., or so.

Anyone who wants to can read Kevin Carter's thoughts on this subject at the kandkaudio website.




Paul S
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