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   Home » Didital Things » The High Resolution PCM files business, where? (32 posts, 2 pages)
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  »  New  About digital files and definition of “masters”...  HD or not HD...  Didital Things  Forum     4  42062  04-09-2008
  »  New  Analog vs. Digital... without BS...  Are we comparing anything except our own prejudices?...  Didital Things  Forum     23  175011  04-15-2009
  »  New  New sample 24/96 downloads from HDTT..  Or shall I say will you bat?...  Didital Things  Forum     20  149475  02-10-2008
  »  New  Reel-to-Reel Tape vs. Raw Better Digital..  So, the "format" and sub-generational stages/...  Didital Things  Forum     13  175888  11-16-2007
  »  New  Chesky Records went "raw files"...  Chesky Records went "raw files"....  Didital Things  Forum     0  19567  04-16-2009
  »  New  The BSO and Digital Music...  Around the BSO recording practice....  Didital Things  Forum     44  320522  12-02-2008
  »  New  The optimum Sampling Rate for bass...  Lynx can handle up to 200.000Khz...  Didital Things  Forum     3  41191  02-19-2008
  »  New  A need for Resolution /Sampling Assessment Test..  Well, we kind of 'have' a file Virginity Assessment Tes...  Didital Things  Forum     1  26686  10-06-2009
  »  New  A lucidly implemented digital?..  A lucidly implemented digital?...  Didital Things  Forum     0  17907  11-18-2008
  »  New  Bravo Brahms, Bravo Wand, Bravo Sony!!!..  What Was That Number You Wanted, Again?...  Didital Things  Forum     3  41233  03-21-2011
  »  New  To buy an SACD Player?..  Cheap sacd players...  Didital Things  Forum     7  57835  04-02-2012
05-24-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 353
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 26
Post ID: 20880
Reply to: 11914
Don't examine Pristine too closely
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

The Brits Pristine “eventually” heard my call. A few years back I begged them to sell the raw 24-bit masters bit not the 16/44 releases, as the down conversion below 20 bit kills too much of sound. It looks like nowadays they get smarter and make 24 bit available:

http://www.pristineclassical.com/More/DownloadFormats.html

Unfortunately they do not make the raw 24-bit file available. They heavily process the files with their in house “restoration ceremony” and make the 24-bit after ceremony masters available. It is MUCH better then what they use to do porting this music to 16 bit on crapy CDs. Stull, I would like to get the raw 24-bit file BEFORE they do the mastering. It shall be my decision if I prefer their “mastering “and I do not what anybody makes this decision for me.

The Cat


I didn't notice Romy's reference of Pristine Classical. I had an "interesting" encounter with them via their "hirez" manipulations of Furtwangler's RAI Ring cycle recordings from EMI. They were of course deliriously recommended on Amazon so I went to their site to listen. If I had an MP3 player their various sound files might have been OK but each was dramatically inferior to the old LPs. I investigated further what they were doing and determined that all their various versions were sourced from needledrops of - you guessed it - the 1970s LP issue of the Furtwangler Ring on EMI. One set of encodings and probably the least bad were the straight mono files derived from the needledrops. The worst were the ones most loudly praised of course; namely, a "stereo" version. This was a slightly more sophisticated version of the old electronic stereo process combined with some sort of treble brightening to simulate a bit of treble air. Of course the sounds of the instruments became even more artificial sounding than with the mono needledrop version. I would have to assume that all of their sources are equally questionable unless they provide independent documentation to the contrary.
05-24-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 27
Post ID: 20881
Reply to: 20879
Agreed
fiogf49gjkf0d
Steve, now that I understand your idea of "transients" here, I simply agree, of course. I always thought of this as part of a "time" problem that is +/- endemic to digital; it can't "breathe" to "make space" for the properly complex "inflections". But then, I have only listened to the "hi-res" music via systems other than my own, and never via one I would personally "approve" of, so, basically nothing to say on that score. Like I've shared before, I have heard an "uncorrupted" WAV file via my system, and nothing good to report there, either, but who knows why, so no judgment there, either, except I'm still not looking for new digital gear yet. For now, I will listen to redbook CD for the Music, if that's where it is, but I still avoid the SACD, based on any and all renderings I have heard from it to date. But I guess I'm way behind the curve in terms of correlating sonics to sampling rates, per se, eg., faster means better sound.

I still recommend that CD...

Best regards,
Paul S
05-24-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 353
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 28
Post ID: 20882
Reply to: 20881
Sure
fiogf49gjkf0d
I'll look for that CD. There are some Bychkov concert performances in the archives of the Berlin Phil Digital Concert Hall that can be accessed for a modest fee. I thought the sonic quality was rather good allowing for the occasional dropout etc.

As for high sampling rate digital, again I think the issue is mostly in capturing the note onsets accurately. If that is done I think the reflected sound may be captured more accurately too. I have never heard a PCM process do that so it's not sampling rate per se. I may be kidding myself but I think some much improved DSD format or more probably 2xDSD or 4xDSD could succeed. Given what is happening in audio however who is going to do the necessary research to develop and implement it? I just don't see it happening. Thus, the expensive security system guarding my LP collection.
05-24-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 29
Post ID: 20883
Reply to: 20880
Fuck the Pristine
fiogf49gjkf0d

Steverino, Pristine Classical is a atrocious company, not only because they do horrible sound quality or because their bossiness is set on fraud but because the company is being run by appalling asshole – Andrew Rose - another “typical audio professional”. What they do and who he is beyond the words to describe it.



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-24-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 353
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 30
Post ID: 20884
Reply to: 20883
Fraud and borderline personalities
fiogf49gjkf0d
I could forgive Mr Rose his personality defects if he was producing soundfiles of some distinction rather than just doing 24/192 needledrops. The scary thing is that his patrons contend that these concoctions are the equal of using the mastertape. As in my posts above, I think there could be some digital conversion process developed that would be far more transparent and accurate than what we have now but the direction is all the other way. I think someone doing 24/192k of a mp3 file subjected to extra dynamic compression and run through a cassette deck is far more likely.

BTW thanks for linking that Ultrahigh end site. I never heard of Mr Berryman but he seems like the lone voice in the wilderness of the audio zines. I hope he is independently wealthy because he will be frozen out I assume. Maybe he already is since the equipment reviews are almost all links to other people's reviews. I can't imagine anyone sending  him music CDs/vinyl to review either. This whole high sampling rate download business is really becoming not simply a fraud, but a blatant sneering fraud. Whatever one thinks of the Cheskys etc at least they all made some attempt, successful or not, to produce or promote better sounding remasterings in the past. At this point they have thrown all that aside and are defending the indefensible. Once this collapses, it is going to be very hard to pick up the pieces and move forward.
05-25-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 31
Post ID: 20890
Reply to: 20884
Did I tell that I am a humanist?
fiogf49gjkf0d
In case Andrew Rose from Pristine there is no borderline personality or fraudulent intend. I have been pitching it for years that ANY audio industry “professional” is disqualifies to be evaluated on human scale of psychological disorders. An audio industry person is not a mammal but a completely different class of semi-human species that occupies a completely different position in darwinian propagation of biological evolution. Any audio industry person is a missing link between a cockroach and skunk’s defecation. I wish humanly crate a vaccine ageist all of that near human waste right along with their missing links.

I think 10-12 years back Andrew Rose sold one Bruckner recording that I was interested. His “mastering” was always horrible but this recording was not available anywhere else. At that time he was running his recording via some kind of DSP algorithm that predicted how this 78 would sound if it was full range recording. The result was atrocious but if you are a missing link between cockroach and animal crap they you have no way to sense it.  So, at some kind of musical forum where Andrew Rose was selling his CDs I asked if it was possible to buy the CD recording with his house processing. Andrew Rose was very surprise and asked why to what I replied that I find that his DSP “full range reconstruction” is necessary as a concept and very sonically damaging by nature. As an illustration I posted a link to Pristine site where there was publicly presented two files: before and after processing. Juts listening those two files, even over a computer, was even laughable to compare the files and one sound as a normal vintage 78 sound and another sounded like a tacky revolting sonic hallucination. In response Andrew Rose informed all public at this forum that for years I have been stacking him, harassing his business and his personally, in internet and in actual life and that he is about to get a restrain order against me. That was enough for the site’s local crowd to be convicted that his in-house mastering is better then original. The funny part that in response I have posted at that forum all 4 emails conversation I even had with him what I very cordially asked about 24 bit master files. There was no further discussion between us and two other emails was from Andrew Rose to me where he compliment my Turntable. That was it and it was not truly harassing of any kind  but those industry dirt love to sell to each other a concept that anyone who do not kiss them in ass are ether Nazi of psychologically disturbed.

So, I will be very happy if Andrew Rose would die from kind of deadly illness but I only wish that it would be slow and very painful. An electric chair or an injection of lethal injection for that level of human waste is to unethical mean to clean the planet.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-25-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 353
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 32
Post ID: 20897
Reply to: 20890
Really bad
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yeah, that is low life for sure but that kind of takedown is becoming more common. People are copying the politicos  (of all types and persuasions). If they can't give a memorized answer or it jars one of their buzz phrases they feel free to slime you to get you out of the way. The more that audio regresses and the market shrinks, the more vicious the audio faux-mavens will behave. However, based on the verbiage on the music sites, I would say this is a lost cause. People really do think that Pristine's fake "ambient stereo" is a vast improvement over LPs, CDs and SACDs. It is like making a mix for a SS AM transistor radio which may sound better for that and worse for anything else. We need to bear in mind that the fidelity of most people's systems is getting worse not better, not to mention the increasing manipulations and degradations of the mastering process (with the latest kerfuffle now with new "improved" Itunes mastering). There is increasing dynamic compression (loudness) on many classical reissues, let alone pop material. Headphones may end up as the last bastion of decent sound despite the oddities of such a presentation. For 3k-4k you can get an excellent pair of headphones and tube/ hybrid headphone amp and not have to deal with Spouse Acceptance Factor, in-room distortion, complaining neighbors etc.
Page 2 of 2 (32 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  About digital files and definition of “masters”...  HD or not HD...  Didital Things  Forum     4  42062  04-09-2008
  »  New  Analog vs. Digital... without BS...  Are we comparing anything except our own prejudices?...  Didital Things  Forum     23  175011  04-15-2009
  »  New  New sample 24/96 downloads from HDTT..  Or shall I say will you bat?...  Didital Things  Forum     20  149475  02-10-2008
  »  New  Reel-to-Reel Tape vs. Raw Better Digital..  So, the "format" and sub-generational stages/...  Didital Things  Forum     13  175888  11-16-2007
  »  New  Chesky Records went "raw files"...  Chesky Records went "raw files"....  Didital Things  Forum     0  19567  04-16-2009
  »  New  The BSO and Digital Music...  Around the BSO recording practice....  Didital Things  Forum     44  320522  12-02-2008
  »  New  The optimum Sampling Rate for bass...  Lynx can handle up to 200.000Khz...  Didital Things  Forum     3  41191  02-19-2008
  »  New  A need for Resolution /Sampling Assessment Test..  Well, we kind of 'have' a file Virginity Assessment Tes...  Didital Things  Forum     1  26686  10-06-2009
  »  New  A lucidly implemented digital?..  A lucidly implemented digital?...  Didital Things  Forum     0  17907  11-18-2008
  »  New  Bravo Brahms, Bravo Wand, Bravo Sony!!!..  What Was That Number You Wanted, Again?...  Didital Things  Forum     3  41233  03-21-2011
  »  New  To buy an SACD Player?..  Cheap sacd players...  Didital Things  Forum     7  57835  04-02-2012
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