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08-07-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
de charlus
Posts 94
Joined on 06-11-2013

Post #: 26
Post ID: 19853
Reply to: 19852
Parker and Leroy
fiogf49gjkf0d
I don't see DRC wines as being Parkerized at all; they are, and always were, simply rich, grandiose, and as extracted as one might expect from 8hl/ha yields from the very greatest of Grand Crus, while at the same time being the last word in finesse. The Leroy wines, on the other hand, are so reverse-osmosis, so long macerated and employ so much new oak - even in the case of inauspicious vineyards - that they're sometimes barely recognizable as Pinot Noir, and emphatically not as Burgundy. Even the very richest vintages from DRC, Joseph Roty, Comte Armand, Meo-Camuzet, Dugat, Dugat-Py and de Vogue don't taste anything like these behemoths, yet Parker thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread. Perhaps in 30 years or so some of these things will emerge with flying colors, but I doubt it. I was recently at a tasting at which each taster brought a bottle concealed in wrapping paper, so as to be entirely blind; from the color, nose and monolithic, black fruit and French Oak palate of one of the wines, three of the tasters there - not including myself, for I had tasted this wine before and so knew it - identified it as Cos d'Estournel 1990, an understandable error in some ways given what was going on with nose and palate, but it turned out to be Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru Les Amoureuses 1995 Dom. Leroy, typically one of the most supple, gracious and refined of the Chambolle 1er Crus, which is not to suggest that it is without richness and structure, since both de Vogue and Dujac do stellar examples of this 1er Cru. I mean, this stuff was thick, inky-black, reeked of new oak and had a palate redolent of claret - mocha, cigar box, dark fruits and only the subtlest hints of Burgundian red fruit, truffle etc. There was no discernible hint of Les Amoureuses terroir at all, and yet I can say from experience that this wine, at this stage of its development, was almost indistinguishable from the same vintage of Charmes-Chambertin Dom Leroy, two vineyards whose produce typically couldn't be more different. The infuriating thing is that great Burgundy, made in the traditional way, ages beautifully anyway, and simply doesn't need to relinquish all its charm for the amusement of Mr. Parker and La Leroy; Last year I drank Romanee-Conti 21 and Richebourg 59 DRC, and both were exquisite, yet neither were tannic, oaky, monolithic powerhouses when young. The bottom line is that Ms. Leroy knows how to please Parker, and she does, with bells on; I for one predict a crash in the value of Dom. Leroy wines when in about 10 years people realize that their treasured Parker 100s are dumb, monolithic and utterly charmless.

de Charlus
08-07-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
de charlus
Posts 94
Joined on 06-11-2013

Post #: 27
Post ID: 19854
Reply to: 19853
Montrose
fiogf49gjkf0d
Montrose is one of those funny ones that, whilst not exactly at the top of the tree, seems to last forever, as is the tendency with some St. Estephes. All I can suggest with that is to return what you have left to the cellar for another 10 or 20 years - which vintage are we talking about anyway?
08-07-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 28
Post ID: 19855
Reply to: 19853
Sweet on sweet is a bit too much.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Excellent point. Adrian. And as you mention Penderecki, even better might be his Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima.

c
08-07-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 29
Post ID: 19856
Reply to: 19855
Vinturi
fiogf49gjkf0d
What do people here think of those pour-through devices that swirl the wine?

And while I'm at it, how about those magnets?

I've even heard of static electricity discharge.

c
08-07-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
de charlus
Posts 94
Joined on 06-11-2013

Post #: 30
Post ID: 19857
Reply to: 19856
Aeration
fiogf49gjkf0d
Nothing wrong with those wine-swirling devices, although they do strike me as being an elaborate solution to a simple problem. That said, they do the job, and people like their wine gadgetry. PS If you're getting burning rubber on the nose - and you don't happen to be drinking S.A. Pinotage, which is vile and unquestionably the work of Satan - you may be encountering a wine fault resulting from an unwanted reaction between sulphur and yeast, resulting in the presence of mercaptans. Extended aeration can ameliorate this somewhat, but it will never be a perfect bottle, merely a drinkable one, no matter how much you scourge it.

de Charlus

PS By way of dichotomy, one of the loveliest synergies of music and wine I've lately encountered has been the Mozart Requiem with The English Baroque Soloists, The Monteverdi Choir, conducted by Sir John Eliot Gardiner on Phillips, with the Tokaji Essencia 1995 from The Royal Tokaji Company. This nectar is so intense that it takes many years to ferment to 3% alcohol, with an incredible 85% residual sugar. There's something so decadent about sipping such ambrosial stuff whilst such musical beauty washes over one.
08-07-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 31
Post ID: 19862
Reply to: 19857
Davis
fiogf49gjkf0d
My son and I refer to the over-engineered winebots generically as (UC) Davis wines, because it was not only the new vines but also the "technology" and the method(ology) that crossed the ocean from California.

It has been a few years since my last run through the Leroy wines, but as I recall the biggest disappointments were their "biggest" vineyards (say, Richebourg), compared to their counterparts from other, more traditional domains.  As for DRC, I will take all the DRC/DRC and La Tache anyone cares to give me, from any vintage they want to name.  I'm not holding my breath (but I keep one eye open for the '45).

As for Lalou, I thought she also owned some DRC?

Best regards,
Paul S

08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
de charlus
Posts 94
Joined on 06-11-2013

Post #: 32
Post ID: 19863
Reply to: 19862
The Ghastly Ms. Bize
fiogf49gjkf0d
The dreadful Ms. Bize did indeed have a small holding of DRC, but this is ancient history and very acrimonious. Nowadays de Villaine detests her with a passion beyond words, but then again, he must derive enormous satisfaction from what abuse she inflicts on all those wonderful holdings. Now, I know many people in the wine world and practically every serious collector in Europe, and there is not one who would not take a DRC, Dugat, Dugat-Py, Meo-Camuzet or de Vogue instead of one of her jammy, oaky, unsophisticated and essentially terroir-less Parkerized liquids. Who, in that case, is buying? The Asian market, which is purely about prestige, and when prestige is the factor sui generis, they will convince themselves that that Dom Leroy Griotte-Chambertin is the best thing they ever tasted, that is, of course, assuming that the stuff ever leaves the bonded warehouse and gets drunk, by no means a certainty. Parker is tossing about aging figures as of old, but let us not forget that the vast majority of those legendary '28s contained a solid dose of Hermitage. The Asians believe that if they can age a Grand Cru Burgundy from a "top" producer for 40-50 years, then they must be onto a colossal winner. I pity the wealthy numbskull who parts with his cash in order to actually drink what I'm sure will be swill, but then, the "Tiger Economy" will be laughing all the way to the bank.
Yes, Romanee-Conti is to my mind better than all things earthly in a good vintage, followed closely by La Tache and Richebourg. The Grands Echezeaux is the bargain of the lot, and there's nothing wrong with the Echezeaux. Try to look out a 59 Richebourg DRC; lovely drinking right now, and to my mind, underpriced.
As for Ms. Bize, the reason that her Grand Crus are so disappointing is that her vini- and viti-culture renders them all but indistinguishable from far less grandiose DOCs; this is emphatically not the expression of terroir in any form, and much like an orchestra ad-libbing during Mozart's Requiem - coarse, unsophisticated, lacking in respect for greatness and generally crude and stupid. This is not to suggest that it's impossible to produce ultra-rich, intense wines still deeply expressive of terroir; try a Charmes-Chambertin Dugat in a good vintage, a Meo-Camuzet, a Musigny de Vogue - it's just that she sees the quickest, easiest route to colossal wealth in becoming an acolyte of Parker, a man who has as much knowledge about real Burgundy in his head as I do in my big toe.

de Charlus
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 33
Post ID: 19864
Reply to: 19850
Beat a dead wine to life
fiogf49gjkf0d
Paul,

I have vigorously aerated a few wines to life, but I find this typically works best for tight, tannic, younger wines that can take it. Still this method means the flavors will emerge, partially salvaging the opened bottle, but are quite ephemeral.

My preferred method when I have detected burning rubber is to let the wine remain in the bottle overnight for a very slow gentle oxidation.

Adrian
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 34
Post ID: 19865
Reply to: 19853
Parker wine
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, the cult of Parker is pervasive and has changed modern winemaking. It is wonderful so long as you simply buy and sell the wines without opening them.  I admit to being a sucker in the past, at the urging of a local wine merchant, now being stuck with several cases of 2000 La Pavie. I don't think that will ever come together....

Adrian
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 35
Post ID: 19866
Reply to: 19856
Venturi aerator
fiogf49gjkf0d
Clark, 

This simple gadget does what it says. It does make young wine slightly more mellow. The perfect thing for when you don't have a perfectly aged bottle at hand.

I also happen to love a device called the Wine Shield. You pop it in the bottle and it preserves it. Magic! Better than all the other wine preserving devices out there. Yes, I have tried them all. I add a layer of inert "Wine Preserver" gas on top, but the disc is just totally worth it.

Adrian
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 36
Post ID: 19871
Reply to: 19866
Wine, Music, and Sensory Overload?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Maybe Kierkegaard was right...

Although I was introduced to Great Burgundy during a series of great, grand, multi-course feasts, this was a long time ago, and things have changed for me since then.  For one thing, there was never any Bruckner rendered by an evolved hi-fi system during any of my early wine tasting.  The more I think about it, the more uncomfortable I become at the thought of trying to enjoy Grand Crus and Bruckner 7 simultaneously. No, I have not actually tried it yet, but I have gotten to the point where I really immerse in either of these experiences, pretty much to the exclusion of else, with the exception that I like some Kavli Crispy Thin crackers, a nice cheese, maybe some fruit, and some wine-talk with the wine, and I can drink something "stupid" with Bruckner on the hi-fi.  While drinking great wine is a long way from work, I do get a lot more from the experience, according to the attention I pay to it, and the music, too, seems to offer more, the more attention I pay to it.  Now I'm wondering, do I even want to multi-task these experiences?  I know I will pass on smoking Penzance while riding my bike, for example.  Where do we draw the line?

Meanwhile, we should all try to remember that Parker actually says outright that he is not a Burgundy guy.  Why not simply take him at his word on this?  Or, just go ahead and get some Hermitage, which we all seem to agree on.  Again, try Allen Meadows for a refined take on the petit domains (or, stay tuned for dC's updates...).


Paul S
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
de charlus
Posts 94
Joined on 06-11-2013

Post #: 37
Post ID: 19873
Reply to: 19871
Pavie etc
fiogf49gjkf0d
Adrian, there's nothing wrong with owning a few cases of 2000 Pavie, as long as you consider it an investment. After the 2000 Primeur tasting in Bordeaux I bought everything I could; my fortunate position within those circles allowed me to obtain a few cases of each 1st Growth and most of the super 2nds, as well as some of the more exciting Pomerols, but I also bought up palettes of things like Clerc Milon, Pavie, Leoville Barton etc and made a small fortune on it all. After all, it was the millennium vintage - even were the quality average, it would still have been a good investment opportunity - but as it turned out, it was the best since 90. The main problem for most people was obtaining sufficient allocations of the better wines to invest in, but if one were able to do that, as I was, returns of 30%p.a. were normal, the 1st Growths and Parker 100s well exceeding that. You did just fine, as long as you're not actually intending to drink the stuff.
I take your point about sensory overload but, what can I say, I'm a hedonist and as such like to pile one pleasure on top of the nest, on top of the next. All that being so, when the Burgundy releases come up, I shall be more than happy to provide investment and/or drinking advice to all who are interested.
It's a great relief that, for the most part, Parker has not been able to foul up Burgundy in the same way that he has almost everything else; that would have been a tragedy, but then, Burgundians are a xenophobic folk who believe that their way is the best way, something that I've seen nothing to contradict.

de Charlus 
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 38
Post ID: 19874
Reply to: 19873
The Futures Look So Bright, I've got to wear shades
fiogf49gjkf0d
Ha! After one fairly worthless Bordeux tasting I bought all the Leoville Barton and Rieussec they would sell me!  Compare the "Irish" wine to the Las Cases if you want another reminder of yea or nay on Parker.  Or, compare Mouton to Lafite.  Sure, buying and selling is one thing, and actually drinking the wine is another. However, I much prefer to have my cake and eat it, too!


Best regards,
Paul S
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
de charlus
Posts 94
Joined on 06-11-2013

Post #: 39
Post ID: 19876
Reply to: 19874
The Midas, vinous touch
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, actually drinking the stuff isn't much fun, but at $5000 per case, who's complaining? I mean, you probably paid around $500 in 2005, so that kind of return in a mere 8 years is not to be sniffed at; that said, I do not see this meteoric rise continuing apace - just think, you could sell it and buy some proper wine! Perhaps a half-bottle of Egon Muller Scharzhofberger Eiswein, and spend the leftover on La Tache! As Leoville's go, Las Cases really is something special, although that's not to say that Barton is not; it's just different... very, very different. Rieussec is never a bad idea either. As you mention Lafite, I had a bottle of the 83 just the other day, and it was great; quite the bargain too, really, and drinking well now. Mouton always was the most "exuberant" of the 1sts, even before Parker came along, although it's been more so lately; the only "promotion" to 1st growth status ever too - who says that money can't buy anything? - although on the basis of 45, 47, 61, 82, 90 and 00, it probably deserves it, although Leoville Las Cases probably deserves it equally, but is less well-funded.

de Charlus
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 40
Post ID: 19877
Reply to: 19876
Time to Refuel
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, I've about gone through my personal 82s and 83s, more's the pity.  And, by the way, I actually (generally) like the Barton better than the Las Cases, too (yes, I know; but it's not really like Segar, or that one-trick sort of thing.....). I also quite like Rieussec (the average man's d'Yquem), and what I kept of what I bought is coming along nicely.

And, how dare you accuse the Rothschilds of using money to influence the course of events! The last Mouton I had (at the tasting I just mentioned, as it happens...) did not excite me, and it was way over-priced (as wine).  And they sold it all...



Best regards,
Paul
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
de charlus
Posts 94
Joined on 06-11-2013

Post #: 41
Post ID: 19878
Reply to: 19877
Mouton etc
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, what an outrageous assertion! Yes, Rieussec is always a good thing, but I strongly recommend Gilette Creme de Tete and Sudiraut Cuvee Madame, since these special cuvees from somewhat less illustrious estates can be obscenely good, and decently-priced, although they can be hard to find due to only being made in the best vintages. Oh, and - and this is a wine-trade Masonic thing, but since I'm no longer in the trade.... - above all, Cru d'Arche Pugneau, a tiny estate bordering d'Yquem, Rieussec etc etc and making some stunning wines. Since they're unheard of outside of a select few, even their prestige cuvees are relatively affordable; "Trie Exceptionelle" is a typical, best-of-the-best prestige cuvee sometimes equal to the very best Rieussecs, Sudirauts and - dare I profane the name? - d'Yquems, whilst "L'Intemporel" is an exercise in the expression of terroir, each release being comprised of the portion of the holding that performed best in that vintage. Since the whole domain is 13ha, you can imagine that quantities are beyond limited, but the fact that no-one's heard of it helps.
I too like the butch, inky-black, blackcurrant-y Barton, but less than the aristocratic, elegant and supple Las Cases; a matter of personal preference, but I imagine the Mouton lover favoring Barton, and the Lafite fan preferring Las Cases. I never did much like the various Segurs, be they Phelan, Calon or H-Bomb, no matter what Mr. Parker has to say about it - coarse and monolithic, IMHO, but in Parker-speak that translates to "unbelievable intensity", "inordinate aging potential" and "colossal mouthfeel". A shame about your 82s; most 83s are drinking now, although Lafite, Latour etc have long lives ahead of them even if they are delicious now. As for 82s, their prices have reached such absurd territory that I almost feel guilty when I drink one, but I seldom buy purely to invest; I only did that in the 2000 vintage, since even if it had been terrible, it still would have appreciated, but having been at the Bordeaux 2000 Primeur tasting, I knew that not only was it the millennial vintage, but it was bloody great too, even modest estates like Clerc Milon turning out superb wines. Since I was in a position to furnish myself with the pick of the litter, I did so, and as you can well imagine was delighted with the outcome. Naturally, I sold 90% of what I bought at the top of the market, but for cellaring and eventual drinking I kept 6 of each of the 1st growths, plus Cheval Blanc and Petrus, and kept a case each of Las Cases, Cos d'Estournel, Barton, La Mondotte, L'Eglise Clinet, Talbot, Ducru-Beaucaillou, Gruaud-Larose, L'Evangile, Palmer, Giscours, Trotanoy, La Fleur Petrus, Angelus and Ausone. I am very happy about this.
Mouton did do a beautiful job of making their wines collectable even when terrible by having their label done by a different, prominent artist every year. Not only do they look cool, but the side-effect has been that the 1946 and 1948 (terrible when young, so unspeakable now) are almost as costly as their noble brethren, 1945 and 1947 (absolutely great) because people need those bottles - which were almost all consumed young, being terrible - to complete their Mouton collection - absolute genius. We are already seeing this effect with things like 52, 64, 68 etc etc, meaning that it actually makes a great deal of sense to purchase bad Mouton vintages when young, in the knowledge that people will simply have to have them for their label collection in a decade or two!

de Charlus
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 42
Post ID: 19881
Reply to: 19863
"Terroir-less Parkerized liquids."
fiogf49gjkf0d
Oooh! Right in the gut.

I must thank you all again for this educational and vastly amusing discussion. While I know whereof you speak, still I've never had one of those great DRCs. Perhaps I can talk Romy into investing in one for immediate consumption. Romy?

(The "underpriced" '59 Richebourg seems no longer to be available in the US, but I find it in der Schweiz for as little as $3300.)

Speaking of Parker, a friend of mine who wrote a local store's wine newsletter (great writing it was too) once published a parody issue called The Wine Avocado in which the descriptions of the wines on offer -- two pages' worth anyway -- were composed in Parkerese. It was a hoot.

c
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 43
Post ID: 19882
Reply to: 19881
The '47 Lafite
fiogf49gjkf0d
A friend of mine once showed me a book on wine written in IIRC 1951, in which a memorable line appeared:

Unfortunately this beautiful 1947 Ch. Lafite is already, at $5, priced beyond the ability of most people's budgets to afford.

c
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
de charlus
Posts 94
Joined on 06-11-2013

Post #: 44
Post ID: 19883
Reply to: 19881
Wine spoofs
fiogf49gjkf0d
I did one such newsletter many years ago at university; one description I recall was "have you ever - inadvertently or otherwise - tasted your own earwax? Well, embrace and amplify that thought, add tannins that could strip paint at five paces and garnish with the bouquet of an open Delhi sewer in a heatwave." Needless to say, I was, quite in earnest, describing a South African Pinotage, the bastard vinous result of incestuous union, and utterly appalling swill.
Perhaps the 59 Richebourg is not as 'underpriced' as I recall it being; I was given mine as a birthday present, when the lady in question went down to her late husband's cellar and picked out something that looked "interesting", knowing that I liked "interesting" wine. She perhaps realized the extent of her accidental largesse when I, an Englishman and thus not much given to "touchy-feely", overwhelmed her with hugs and kisses. Nonetheless, I opened it there and then, shared it with her, and we both agreed that it was indeed very, very "interesting" in the Romy sense of the word.
I thought that you were perhaps a DRC virgin when you equated the domain with that of Dom. Leroy; I assure you that no two things could be more dissimilar than the intense, silky, aristocratic, terroir-driven, liquid-velvet beauty of DRC and the hyper-extracted, terroir-less, ooey-gooey, opaquely Parkerized stuff with which La Bize believes she can exceed the wonders of DRC. If you don't have the holding, you don't have the holding, and when you do - and she really does have some very good ones, just not Romanee-Conti and La Tache (much to her chagrin) - Burgundy viniculture 101 is to let those holdings express their wonders, instead of doing your damnedest to hide them in search of Parker 100s. Take my word for it; mature Romanee-Conti in a fine vintage is exquisite in a way that goes beyond wine, almost to erotica, the pheromonal nature of the stuff making one's hair stand on end and one's mind to reel in a state of utter bliss. Why it is that only the synergy of a particular grape variety, and 1.6ha on top of an otherwise nondescript hill in Burgundy seems capable of doing this is beyond me, but emblematic of the frustration and wonder of wine, Burgundy in particular. I suggest that you lose your DRC virginity at the first opportunity; life really is much better when suffused with such sublimity.
Now I mention it, said quest reminds me of that for audio bliss, a state of being also much sought but seldom gained, so exquisite when gained and yet so utterly humdrum when not.
I too have been enjoying this discussion; I seldom get to speak with anyone whose enthusiasm for the finer things mirrors my own.

Regards

de Charlus
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 45
Post ID: 19884
Reply to: 19883
Stand Up (and move fast) for Greatness!
fiogf49gjkf0d
I refuse to reflect on the possibility of that '59 DRC Richebourg being taken from horizontal to vertical to horizontal in 5 minutes flat, since I would certainly have moved as quickly as necessary on this opportunity, myself (and have done!)!

Dixie Cups and Saltines, I presume?

Next, vintage Port from the bottle...


Best regards,
Paul S
08-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 46
Post ID: 19885
Reply to: 19883
Virginity and sublimity
fiogf49gjkf0d
"I suggest that you lose your DRC virginity at the first opportunity; life really is much better when suffused with such sublimity."

That line might be taken as patronising except, you are correct, sir! (Only, what if virginity is itself sublime?)

I can't think where I made that gaffe about Leroy but it doesn't matter as I am actually aware of the difference... intellectually.

So, M. de Charlus, I assume you found this site owing to an interest in music and/or audio, besides in all things good and precious. So I give you a column I wrote some time ago in which I deride the need of audio objectivists (the measurements men) to ignore connoisseurship.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue9/diaries.htm

Votre sante!

c
08-09-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 47
Post ID: 19887
Reply to: 19871
Parker and Bruckner
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Paul S wrote:
we should all try to remember that Parker actually says outright that he is not a Burgundy guy.
Or, perhaps, that Burgundy is not (yet) a Parkerwine?
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drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 48
Post ID: 19888
Reply to: 19876
Two Leovilles
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, Las Cases is actually my personal favorite. It decays in a delectable way when it is supposedly over the hill, with incredible complexity and infinite layers. Barton is much more prim and proper, taking its own time to come around but ultimately in a generally extremely predictable and classic way.

Let's say Las Cases are horn speakers and Barton are electrostatics?

Adrian
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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 49
Post ID: 19893
Reply to: 19888
Knitting
fiogf49gjkf0d
I would say that Las Cases is a closer knit, more "balanced", typically lighter wine, and Barton is more "au sauvage", often quite rough when young.  And I would say the same of THE DRC (regarding knit and balance, in any case) vs La Tasche, which I also prefer in most vintages I have tried.  In the best vintages, however, nothing can touch THE DRC (as everyone already knows and agrees).

Before we abandon this discussion, let's also salute the incredible white wines of Burgundy, starting with another DRC, THE Montrachet, a whole universe that can "come up" in a glass for well over 2 hours.

And perhaps dC will spool off for us a list of today's likely Bourgognes, to keep our whistles properly wetted.


Best regards,
Paul S
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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 50
Post ID: 19894
Reply to: 19887
Tail Wags Dog; World Applauds
fiogf49gjkf0d
Not to defend Parker, but that genie is long out of the bottle.  I remember when he started, I appreciated his insight and a palate that could differentiate far better than other critics of the day. Now, like I've said, I "read through" his very consistent reviews to home in on what I like.  And he has actually said that he does not "get" Burgundy, and he actually hired help to try to cover Burgundy, because so many people want him to do it!  Believe it or not, I can remember back to when some of Lalou's winemakers would not "go along", although there are too few of the old guard now, anywhere in the wine world, it is true, down to effing Riojas, fer crissake!  The first "jammy" Brunello I try, I am launching a counter attack!

As with so many things, eff the "Public"; by and large, they get what they deserve.  As PT Barnum said...


Best regards,
Paul S
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