04-12-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree scooter Posts 161 Joined on 07-17-2008 Post #: 51 Post ID: 16016 Reply to: 16015 Maybe...lots of factors working together change the equation fiogf49gjkf0d Maybe, but from a practical perspective, theory can be pretty useless as the listening experience is the cumulation of many factors. My experience (if you care) is that at lower frequencies, room modes get increasingly more difficult to address but time alignment is still critical. Without both factors being sorted (along with a reasonable knee that is well documented on this site), I never got decent low fq integration and I have spent hundreds of hours trying to sort this.  I am pretty lucky to find a sub location in my room best addresses room modes and is simultaneously time aligned. Moving either the sub or my listening position by less than 1" drastically impacts integration. Unfortunately sub location is to my right shoulder and despite rapid roll off outside ~25hz and ~60hz when listening I can sometimes locate this thing but just barely. Time aligned in front of the listening room solved the location issue but room modes got more problematic so it stays where it is. BTW maybe these are learned sensitivities just as a good harp player learns the subtleties of his or her instrument over the years.

04-12-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree JoshK Posts 7 Joined on 10-13-2009 Post #: 52 Post ID: 16017 Reply to: 16016 Good to know fiogf49gjkf0d I am still open minded about the topic as I just haven't done the experiment myself yet.  I am just strongly skeptical of dogma and much prefer a well thought out argument or empirical results.

04-12-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Romy the Cat Boston, MA Posts 10,160 Joined on 05-28-2004 Post #: 53 Post ID: 16021 Reply to: 16017 The sub-subject. Terra Incognita of audio. fiogf49gjkf0d Josh, I think that you touched more complicated subject then you think. Let me to explain why I feel this way. The fact that I advocate a dogmatic, religiously-stubborn, almost paranoid time alignment of the channels is not a secret. I do feel very comfortable with my time alignment paranoia and I have no need to debate or defend it. So, far any single installation that I heard, including mine, was benefited by time alignment. The people who visit me and question the time-alignment subject I usually do very short demonstration by taking one of channels out of alignment and explaining to them what specifically they need to pay attention while they are listening. Uselessly there is not more question after then. The time alignment in bass is of cause is less critical but if to know what specifically to listen then I need to report that I have no problems to recognize the sonic difference when my woofer woofers towers are moved for a 6 inchers away. I do not insist that the change is due to the time alignment, it is very much that it just room modes act differently. Still, the most proper condensing of leading edge of bass pressure ways I get when my woofers towers are aligned with my upper bass? A coincidence? Perhaps, I do not know bay what is the differences. I care about right position of woofers towers in the room and it happened to be where it happened to be. We have very little control over it anyhow…. So, way do I feel that it is “mode complicated subject”? Because there is in it a sub-subject about witch I’ve been thinking for a while and I did not come a comfortable answer.  The sub-subject is the time- alignment for ULF region. The ULD is sub-auditable bass and in addition to “pressurize” the “nervousness” of the room it prolongs the reverberation time in the room.  The extension of reverberation time in the room is not something that needs to be time-aligned. It needs to be delayed: the lower frequency the longer delay. We can’t do it by our real-time, analog signal processing methods, so what can we do only to set out ULF to be delay for a fixed time with respect to the size and a few other conditions of our rooms. This setting is very “strategic” and it shall be very interesting to play with it. From one side you would like to synchronize the “nervousness” of the room with your music but from other side you want the “nervousness” precede the auditable event, letting your guts to be “pre-cooked”. This is a very interesting and a bit complex subject that I am look forward to explore when I have back my ULF channels. Now, remind you that I have not proper ULF as my ULF goes too high in might estimation. I might change it in future but in context of this thread I think to tray a pair of Tapped Horns of 12Hz-22 Hz would be more interesting. That would be true ULF and I would be able to run the delays without affecting the auditable range and compromising my Midbass. I wish I know how Tapped Horns sound and how far their sound subjectively from ported ULF enclosures. Funny but I do not even know if the ported ULF enclosures are not useable for ULF. The ULF is very much a dark side of moon in audio and unfortunately it is costly to explore and serve relatively diminutive result. The caT "I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

05-03-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Romy the Cat Boston, MA Posts 10,160 Joined on 05-28-2004 Post #: 54 Post ID: 16201 Reply to: 16021 My take about tapped horns for now. fiogf49gjkf0d I have explored the subject of tapped horns. My exploration did not include listening them – ridicules, isn’t it? I did consult with a few folks, who I respect and who built and heard many of them and who know subject well. I pretty much know what I need to do if I decided to make a pair of tapped sun 20Hz ULF horns. However, after much considerations I decided do not try them. There are two factors that made me to hold the attempt of test tapped ULF. First is that even if I make over 100dB sensitive tapped ULF then I will not be able to drive it with 20W DSET. Whoever use tapped LF horn insist in over 100W – so, no DSET, no need to go for tapped ULF. Second reason is my fear that tapped horn my in the end to sound like good ported speaker.  I do not have reasons for this fear but I do not have confidence that my fear is unreasonable. Whoever I spoke with did not give me the “magic keywords” that made me comfortable that tapped horn is not a “port with help”. I am very anal about fine differences I ULF overtones and I do not know if tapped will be discriminating enough. I have to say that to find some kind of semi-local guy with tapped horn would not address my interests as I do not need to hear ANY tapped horn but rather properly sounding tapped horn. Sine I have no inspiration what would be a properly sounding tapped horn I have no idea what to look for. I guess the way how I might undertake the tapped ULF direction would be if somebody who know tapped horn well would stop by at my place, hear my ULF, point out to me the specific sonic problems I have with my ULF and suggest that those problem might be addressed by use of tapped ULF. If someone has those expertise them let me know and we could make some kind arrangement. Rgs, Romy the Cat "I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

01-26-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Romy the Cat Boston, MA Posts 10,160 Joined on 05-28-2004 Post #: 55 Post ID: 17752 Reply to: 10333 The new use of Trapped Horn idea. fiogf49gjkf0d The idea of trapped horn looks like get very popular among audio people. I have no position on the subject and I do not know if trapped horn is able to facilitate proper sound and if it drastically different from the sound of operated enclosures. I never heard a properly made and installed setting with trapped horns, so I will demonstrate no opinion on the subject. However, regardless the ability of trapped horns to produce bass that I would consider “proper bass” they for sure produce bass and by relatively small efforts and size. So, an elegant idea come to me and it looks like it never was implemented before, least I did not hear about it. Why do not use the trapped horns and to make a “full range” monitor? There are zillion floor-stating bookshelf monitors out there. Usually the bookshelf monitors are two ways speakers of 1-2 cub feet, some of them not bad. To make them floor-stating the makers add to them nice and in some cased elaborate stands. So, why do not build trapped horns INSIDE the stand for bookshelf monitors. Take a look at topology: a two way monitor with just sub 100dB sensitivity and vertically positioned “clandestine” trapped horn of let say 40Hz inside the stands? It sounds very reasonable to me. It you are a manufactures and you embrace my idea then, please, contribute the proceeds from your first sales to your local shelter for homeless felines. Rgs,  Romy the Cat "I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

08-12-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Shashi Posts 1 Joined on 01-26-2018 Post #: 56 Post ID: 25035 Reply to: 10438 Image Refresh Attachments are no longer visible posts 23 to 28. Is it possible to refresh them?

08-13-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Romy the Cat Boston, MA Posts 10,160 Joined on 05-28-2004 Post #: 57 Post ID: 25036 Reply to: 25035 Sorry, no images any more. Sorry, Shashi, I can’t help you with it. The images john used were not stored at my server but were coming from myspacecdn.com. The images are not available at the remote server anymore and I do not cache the images from other URLs "I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

09-13-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree xandcg Rio de Janeiro, BR. Posts 218 Joined on 09-07-2014 Post #: 58 Post ID: 25593 Reply to: 25036 Danley DTS-20. This is an old topic, but just in case, Danley now offer the DTS20, and that seems to have the format ratio Romy was looking for in the past. Cheers! Think for yourself, do not be sheep.