GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site

03-25-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	801
Post ID:	15846
Reply to:	15843

Tell more about your 15KVA isolation transformer.

Mani, that is interesting. Instead of simply fixing the PP2000 you decided to try isolation transformer way. That is fine.

Can you provide more details how you made your 15KVA isolation transformer? I have 3KVA and 5KVA they big, they have, the have faraday cages and they are worsening sound most of the time. I have a few other small 100VA-500VA isolation transformers. Some of them do help with sound sometime but sometime they are not. The point I am making is that you are reporting positive result with your transformer but how satiable this result from day to day? Also, I am interested how you find your transformer does the lowest bass – not of my transformer do well in that regard.
Also, what is the ionic grounding system?

One more think I would like to ask. To connect directly to the input of the house you needed not your electrician but electric company that supply power to your street to assist you. did they cove you problems considering that what you do is not “up to zoning code” as they can see it?

Rgs, Romy the Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-25-2011

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Jorge
Austin TX
Posts 141
Joined on 10-17-2010

Post #:	802
Post ID:	15847
Reply to:	15846

10 KVA

I have a 10KVA Isolation transformer that feeds on two separate 8 ga cables running direct from the house meters into an breaker into de transformer. This breaker is the one I use to turn my system on and off. The Isolation transformer recieves two 110 volt lines and brings it down to one 110 Volts hot and neutral. Actually it recieves two 127-130 volt lines and has adjustable taps so I can get 110 volts almost all the time. I have a copper rod sticking in my back yard for grounding. Electricity has always been bad around here, but since a few months back we have had Super-horrible electricity days. So bad I can now only listen to music after 10:30 pm, and sometimes I get good electricity in the afternoon from 3 pm up to 6 pm when people start getting back from work and turning on the Big TV screens...
The Isolation transformer is a necessity for me, I tried to drive power directly from the grid, but with 130 volts and 500 volt internal power on my tube amps, I was afraid caps would start exploding!!!! I dont have a PP2000...hint.
So the Isolation transformer is a safety device for me, but I wouldnt say it "cleans" electricity. JMHO.
When electricity is good from the street I rather not have the Isolation transformer, but you never know when the chorus starts on Beethoven 9th at 6 pm and 130 volts start flowing and it time to run and turn off your amps!...

I tired a lot of DIY line conditioners with caps and coils and resistors and they work fine even with bad electricity, much more trnasparency and detail on midrange and highs, the highs with bad electricity are the first ones to suffer, it seems like your 800 dollar tweeter transform into cheap garbage and start hissing and getting disconected from the music...
About Bass and this sort of line conditioners, it is more of a mistery for me now, it seems SS gear is more prone to loose bass than tube gear, and it also seems no matter what conditioning I put, with bass, I can never subsitute good electricity from the grid. I do have SS sub amp for bass...hhmm

If I was dooign this all over again I would put al least two different transformers, one for signal gear and one for amps, it seems the same system can push garbage into the line, so isolating gear among each other is a good idea...

03-25-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	803
Post ID:	15848
Reply to:	15847

Mani, are teasing me?

I do not know folks, I never was happy with isolation transformers. Perhaps I did not have the right isolation transformers but what I had was not good enough. Perhaps we have different electricity problem in my and your countries…. Whatever I had made sound like pale paint and it always ruined bass. Perhaps one my say that I am a product of PP2000’s dynamic bass anaphases but I am so accustomed and so on love with that PP2000 bass (of the PP2000 not faulty) that I could not live with something that do not do it for me. It is not able the “emf” effect but rather some strange feeling of Dymick the goes all the way into very ULF region, literally infinitely low. I do understand that PP2000, with all that switching nose that it creates, is basically a radioactive waste that is sitting right in the middle of my playback but unfortunately I did not see any other solution that in my view can measure up in Sound to PP2000. I wish I did, I would be gladly get rid of the PP2000.

There is another thing that drive me nuts in isolation transformers. Yes, they shall be filtering anything at HF but in reality they are not. If you put a scope with 20kHz noise on primary then you will have the same noise on the secondary – did it many-many times. I do not mention the wave deformation – a clipped sinusoid is still clipped in secondary.

Still, I am very interested that Mani’s report that his transformer sounds like PP2000 from battery (he has apparently broken PP2000). Mani’s did you really means it or you just teasing me?

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-25-2011

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manisandher
London
Posts 158
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #:	804
Post ID:	15849
Reply to:	15848

Teasing, who me?

Romy, no not at all. I'm listening to music right now and prefer running directly from my new AC mains rather than from the PP2000 battery. But it's so soon after my dedicated mains system has been installed that maybe I should just wait a while before reporting anything else about the sound.

But I want to make a couple of things clear.

1. When I said "connected to the mains inlet to the house", I meant as close to the inlet as my electicity company would allow me to go, i.e. right after the meter. The isolation transformer has a dedicated isolation switch and consumer unit (with MCB) In this respect, I seem to have a similar setup to Jorge.

2. (You will have to forgive me now because there may be a number of factual errors coming - I'm not an EE, and not particularly good at electronics.) I am NOT using an isolation transformer to try to reduce noise, or at least, this is not the primary reason. I'm using it so that I can truly isolate my dedicated ionic grounding system (http://www.erico.com/products/ChemRod.asp) from the house's grounding system. It seems to me that if the house's Neutral is bonded to the house's Earth, then the only way of truly isolating a dedicated grounding system is to use an isolation transformer and bond the Neutral of the primary to the Earth of the house and the Neutral of the secondary to the dedicated grounding system Earth. If an isolation transformer is not used, then surely the house's ground would contaminate the dedicated ground through the fact that both need to be bonded to a shared Neutral. I'm really basing this on the approach used to stop metal-hulled yachts from corroding. I'm pretty certain that the improvement in sound comes mainly from an ultra-clean <5 Ohms totally isolated grounding system more than anything else.

In any event, I had an objective - to match the sound of the PP2000 when running from battery. I've achieved this, and in my opinion, exceeded it. As proof, my PP2000 is already up for sale.

Mani.

03-25-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	805
Post ID:	15850
Reply to:	15849

To employ ground heavier?

Hm, Mani, you have with your isolation/grounding techniques the same electricity result as from PP2000? If it so then I do envy you even those I do keep my certain level of disbelieve.

The ionic grounding system that you link is interesting. I do not have near as sophisticated. I have 15 feet copper rod driver into the ground and the soil around the rod I soaked with alkaline. Then I have 2ga wire running right my playback. Frankly I did not hear any tangible advantage of my ground vs. to what I have in the wall.

Nevertheless your report gives me some inspiration and I will make one more attempt to play with my ground. It is kind of hard to do it with PP2000 as it has no bypass and no centralized ground lifting. Anyhow I will see what I can go to employ ground heavier then what I do now.

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-26-2011

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manisandher
London
Posts 158
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #:	807
Post ID:	15852
Reply to:	15846

15KVA transformer

Romy the Cat wrote:
Instead of simply fixing the PP2000 you decided to try isolation transformer way.

With all due respect Romy, you of all people know that applying the term "simply fixing" to the PP2000 is ridiculous. I don't have the patience you've shown to get just one of your PP2000s working to your satisfaction. How long have you been messing around with the PP2000? Certainly longer than it's taken me to get a dedicated AC circuit installed. Also, I would have to send my unit back to the retailer in Scotland and not directly to APS, adding an extra layer of complexity. In any event, I strongly suspect they would say there's nothing wrong with it.

Romy the Cat wrote:
Can you provide more details how you made your 15KVA isolation transformer?

It was made for me by a UK company who makes isolation transformers for yachts. (PM me if you would like their details.) I attach a picture of the transformer (260 pounds weight) with a CD placed on top to give you an idea of size.

Mani.

OK, can't seem to attach a 140KB image...

03-26-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	808
Post ID:	15853
Reply to:	15852

Getting more inparation to deal with ground.

tuga wrote:
A local audiophile - who works or worked for the Public Electricity Supply System - has optimized his domestic installation by lowering the circuit impedance to insure a high Short Circuit Current.
In his words, the Short Circuit Current has a similar effect to an engine's flywheel in an internal combustion engine: it absorbs transients and stabilizes operation.
It might be an interesting subject to investigate.

OK, I had it, I will go today to a store and will buy 25 cheating plugs, completely isolating my playback ground from PP2000 ground an use my own ground. Let see what happens. I wonder what to attach my own ground to playback. Since it is single-ended system and negative terminal is basic lay is ground I think it will be the preamps chassis…

manisandher wrote:
With all due respect Romy, you of all people know that applying the term "simply fixing" to the PP2000 is ridiculous. I don't have the patience you've shown to get just one of your PP2000s working to your satisfaction.

Yes, it is a bit daunting, I agree but to me in relationship with PP2000 important not process but result. If I have another solution that delivers the same sound as PP2000 then I would not use PP2000. Unfortunately there is nothing from what I know even approach the PP2000’s sound. In my case in addition to sonic qualities that PP2000 does I do use the PP2000 AC regulation. This is very important to me as some of the design decisions I made in my amplification imply to use AC stable voltage. I certainly do not care if you use or not PP2000 but it is convenient to have a common reference of the same regenerator what we are talking about sound of electricity. By once again, doing that we need to be sure that your PP2000 and my PP2000 has identical sonic performance. As we understand it might not be the case.

manisandher wrote:
OK, can't seem to attach a 140KB image...

This is strange, I have limit of 12meg or something like this. Send me the image and I will attach it for you.

THe Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-26-2011

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manisandher
London
Posts 158
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #:	809
Post ID:	15854
Reply to:	15853

Cheater plugs vs. isolation transformer

Romy the Cat wrote:
I will go today to a store and will buy 25 cheating plugs, completely isolating my playback ground from PP2000 ground an use my own ground.

Well this is what I was struggling with. Will cheater plugs truly isolate your playback from the PP2000 if the Neutral is still shared between your playback and the PP2000? Of course, if your own ground is not bonded to the Neutral, then yes they should. But is this a safe thing to do?

My feeling was/is that to do this properly, one needs to employ an isolation transformer. In which case, it may as well be a 'massive' one to keep the overall system impedance to a minimum (I agree with tuga here - this would equate to the highest short circuit current. Here in the UK running at 240V, my short circuit current is >50A).

But as I said before, I'm no EE...

Mani.

PS:

03-26-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	810
Post ID:	15855
Reply to:	15854

Neutral shall not be lifted!

manisandher wrote:
Well this is what I was struggling with. Will cheater plugs truly isolate your playback from the PP2000 if the Neutral is still shared between your playback and the PP2000? Of course, if your own ground is not bonded to the Neutral, then yes they should. But is this a safe thing to do?

Or course my neutral is still shared with PP2000. I am not following what you are saying. Are advocating a scenario to use Neutral bout to ground and to use external ground as external neutral? This will works fine electricity-wise but it is incredibly dangers, not only you will but bur, literally insincere you playback but you will insincere all electrical appliances in a few blocks around you. Neutral must not be removed from not and much not be interrupted. This is why no one ever put fuses on Neutral. If your electrician tells you anything opposite to it then immediately fire him, immediately shut down whatever he did and fin somebody else to redo it. I am not kidding: Neutral must not be lifted from source under any circumstances.

BTW, my properly sounding PP2000 has 0.457V between ground and neutral. The voltage between the same neutral and my own ground is 0.55V. So, my wall ground looks like effective and this might explain why I do not hear a lot of difference between my wall groud and my own ground.

The Cat

BTW, you did not make those comments about electricity by listening of that Jeff Buckley, did you?

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-26-2011

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manisandher
London
Posts 158
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #:	811
Post ID:	15856
Reply to:	15855

Neutral NOT lifted

Romy the Cat wrote:
Are advocating a scenario to use Neutral bout to ground and to use external ground as external neutral?

NO, NO, NO, NO. I'm not advocating this, nor have I done anything remotely close to such craziness.

I'm actually not advocating anything to you Romy. I'm just asking whether you are bonding your dedicated ground to Neutral. If so, I can't see how cheater plugs would help in your situation - your dedicated ground and your house ground would still be connected via the Neutral. In which case, what's the point of a dedicated ground???

To understand my thinking overall, just look at how things are done on a metal-hulled yacht. Here, they have to get true isolation, or else the metal hulls would corrode over time in the sea water.

Mani.

PS. Using a 'star' grounding system, I have pretty much 0V between all the components in my playback... and also the Neutral.

03-26-2011

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	813
Post ID:	15858
Reply to:	15857

"Mains Ground"

The "mains ground" is not necessarily worth a crap, electrically; it is just whatever ground system happens to be attached to the main service shared neutral/ground bus. In fact, some older systems may yet use the dreaded "floating" ground. I have seen and dealt with this, myself.

As for changing the "mains ground", the "combined" ground might be safely re-located, possibly even to good electrical advantage. Also, depending on system-specific ground scheme and routing it might be useful to add a "dedicated ground" just for the hi-fi, to bleed off local "standing" current. This is no silver bullet, however, since "redundant" grounding may exacerbate or even cause system-specific ground loops, which can ruin any hoped-for sonic advantages.

Generally, to lift the neutral is not simply unsafe but it results in an open circuit, so sound goes from bad to zero. Making things electrically and sonically more complex, few electrical systems feature truly separate, unbroken nuetral and ground wires that run their separate courses all the way from the main service box to the appliance in question. The usual/almost inevitable mix/mosh of ground and neutral wires throughout a typical system is the generally-overlooked and often-ignored source of plenty of audible garbage, including noise that "starts on the hot line". This separate routing and isolation would be the first thing I would tackle if I owned the house I live in; and I may just do it, anyway.

Best regards,
Paul S

03-26-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	814
Post ID:	15860
Reply to:	15856

I still have my doubts….

manisandher wrote:
I'm actually not advocating anything to you Romy. I'm just asking whether you are bonding your dedicated ground to Neutral. If so, I can't see how cheater plugs would help in your situation - your dedicated ground and your house ground would still be connected via the Neutral. In which case, what's the point of a dedicated ground???

To understand my thinking overall, just look at how things are done on a metal-hulled yacht. Here, they have to get true isolation, or else the metal hulls would corrode over time in the sea water.

Mani I did try different scenario with my dedicated ground, completely insolated, capacitor couple and a few others. I did not see a lot of difference. I did not connect my own Ground to neutral as it creates ground loops. The idea to look at the metal-hulled yachts is good one but I would like to note that in yachts and what we are dealing with in Audio there are a bit different objectives.

I still doubt that you were, by the virtue of insulation transformer and ground, able to get what PP2000 gives but as you understand there is no ways, or even needs, to address my doubts. I just would propose to monitor if the result change with time. At least with my electricity I was not able to see my insulation transformers worked all time. You might also to discover with time, that the problem in the mains will change as time goes by and the insulation transformers might be less effective, again, who know what you have in main in US and what make electricity to sound one day better and another day worst.

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-27-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	815
Post ID:	15865
Reply to:	15860

The lifted ground

Reading today about Mani’s Star Ground idea I was thinking that in context of playback we do not truly know the extent of “Star-ness”. If we do not know how each particular component use ground and we can’t not be 100% sure that our primaries and front end of components are true star jointed by ground.

I run all completely single-ended playback. I have a few balanced components but I used them in single-ended mode. Up to two years back I ran my entire playback with completely lifted ground, I mean there was no reference to ground of any kind. I do not need your posts about dangers of this application, I know it. Be comforted with the fact that I was doing it got 8 years and I am still alive. Abound 2 years ago when I sensed my PP2000 was a bit loosing I switched t a configuration to run all everything directly connected to PP2000, including the grounds. At that time I felt that it was better.

Today I lifted grounds on all element of my playback and lifted them in more or less Star configuration – each individually. I have now PP2000 outputs just Not and Neutral and nether wall or PP2000’s ground used. The ground of my playback is completely floating now, having 2.2V between PP2000’s ground and playback’s single-ended ground. I do like Sound now, in fact better then before. There is a very fine touch of “glassines” that got removed from upper range; the upper notes got a very minor addition of texture, texture but no brightness – a positive sigh indeed.

Interesting that if I am trying to add any reference to my playback ground then I pick up some upper frequency loop – it means I have some path somewhere to ground that I need to find. I think it is via the network cable that is connected to my DAW. I would like to have one “explicit ground” but it will it be all depending the sonic consequences it will have. Let see how it goes.

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-27-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	816
Post ID:	15866
Reply to:	15865

Eventually!

Eventually I got electricity-wise what I had in my old listening room. It turned out that the last straw that I was missing was Lavry ADC that was connected to ground of my remote switcher.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/LatestPosts.aspx?ThreadID=8015

I as under impression the since my IP switcher box has lifted ground then whatever is connected to it shall not have ground lifted. I was not the case and until I individual lifted ground on each individual piece of equipment I did not have good result. As I did removed ground on each individual piece of equipment then I lost my HF loop and was able to use my own dedicated ground. So, I have no the same configuration as I had 2 years back only now I can ground my playback. There is not a lot sonic difference that I hear between floating ground and grounded ground, the only disadvantage with lifted one is that I pick up some static discharge on my finger tips sometimes… I said that there is not a lot sonic difference as there is some very minor difference, with advantage of floating ground, but it is so minor that I find it practically negligible. What I connect my own ground to playback I do it in single location – the preamp chassis.

So, what sonic benefit I got with absolute abandoning of Ground would it be wall ground, my own ground or PP2000 ground. I have redaction of HF “extension” and more characteristic MF. My MF is very idiosyncratic, it is YO186-colored MF and I do feel that grounded electricity dilute the YO186 colorations. The no-ground electricity removes some gloss from HM, making upper range drivers more idiosyncratic and more distinguishable. I like it a lot, in fact I feel that now my upper range a bit more colored then I need, thanks fully it is very easy to adjust.

Interesting that use of second PP2000 still exhibit an addition of brightness, even though I feel that without use of any grounds the effect is much smaller. Well, it is not smaller in amplitude sense but rather less devastating. With common ground two PP2000 are just zippy. With absolutely eliminate common grounds Sound with second PP2000 is brighten but not zippy. What I am taking about eliminated ground I of cause am taking about the load side of PP2000 not the source side- the wall’s side of PP2000 is running from normal wall ground.

The only problem that I see in my current configuration is that cheater plugs are too flimsy and the contact can get loose. The 3 point plug is much firmer contact, particularly with heavy power cables. I would like to have custom cheater plugs gone. The cheater plugs that I would like to have would be the 3 pins contact but the ground just disconnected internally. I mean the female ground contacts shall be there as it holds the center ground pin of power cord very tight but the female ground contact shall not be connected to male ground contact of the cheater plug adapter.

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-27-2011

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manisandher
London
Posts 158
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #:	817
Post ID:	15867
Reply to:	15860

A re-evaluation.

Romy the Cat wrote:
I still doubt that you were, by the virtue of insulation transformer and ground, able to get what PP2000 gives but as you understand there is no ways, or even needs, to address my doubts.

Yes agreed, there's no need to address your doubts. But I know you have a canny way of being right a lot of the time, and because of this I've have spent pretty much the whole day listening and comparing AC from isolation transformer (IT) vs. PP2000 regenerated vs. PP2000 battery.

The conclusion is that I must have had pretty good electricity when I first tried the IT on its own at 1am a couple of days ago. The IT now has a typical 'isolation transformer sound' - sorted of HF-filtered and a bit hazy. It gives the impression of deeper bass, but I think this is more down to low-end smearing than anything else. Certainly easy to listen to, but not very musical.

In comparison, the PP2000 in both modes sounds more alive and rhythmic. The real surprise for me though is that the PP2000 now sounds really nice in regenerator mode! This is the first time I can listen to it and actually enjoy the sound from it. There's a lot more HF information coming through than with the IT. But it's the LF that I really like - very tuneful. Not as full as the IT, but I think more accurate and musical. The only explanation I have as to why I didn't like the sound when I first heard the PP2000 a couple of days ago with my new mains circuit is that I did not wait long enough for the PP2000 to warm up before I started listening in regenerator mode. Who knows?

But contrary to what APS might say, there is still a difference in sound between regenerator and battery modes. The very pleasant surprise for me is that I like the sound of regenerator mode at least as much as I like the sound of battery, and in some ways more - it sounds more dynamic and the bass is more tuneful.

But it's worth pointing out that the PP2000 never sounded this good running from my regular house AC mains circuit. The guys at APS told me that my new mains circuit (with very large IT and dedicated grounding) would help get the best out of the PP2000, and it seems they were right. Needless to say, my PP2000 is no longer for sale!

Mani.

03-27-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	818
Post ID:	15868
Reply to:	15867

The show will go on.

Mani,

I did find it was strange that you were getting from insulation transformer better result then from PP2000. They are very different devises with very different results. The difference is like to play a CD from an audio output of a consumer $50 CD/DVD player and from CEC TL0. TL-0 has some much more of everything that it would not be even polite to mention the differences.

As I told before all your observation about PP2000 work deferent from battery and from grid are due to the fact that you have no properly operating PP2000. It is what my November units did and I have no idea how long before it PurePower made faulty units. BTW, there are reasonably simple tests to verify that your unit does or does not have the problem that my November units has, the testing procedures you will need to get from PurePower.

I do not exactly buy the notion that “your new mains circuit would help get the best out of the PP2000” That fact that regenerator might be improved by insulation transformer before it in fact is an evidence that the regenerator is faulty. Your grounding idea is very fine but they work on the load side and if the regenerator own ground is separated from load. If a regenerators is faulty, if it clips or provide asymmetrical wave then no one insulation transformer or grounding will help. If you truly would like to know how your insulation transformer sounds then run your playback from PP2000 and THEN put the transformer after the PP2000. You will see how much Sound your transformer will eat.

Still, your experiment is interesting in my view as it raises a question if sound of PP2000 might be stabilized by use of insulation transformer before it. I discard your experience as you have difference between battery and grid operation. I discard my own experiments as well and what I did those experiments in November/December I had busted PP2000. Now I have perfectly operating PP2000, moreover with added HF capacitance on buttery. I do recognize the fluctuation of electricity quality but near not as dramatic as it use to be – put in this way – I did not have any truly bad electricity day since my PP2000 was fixed. Now I have grounds addressed and how I might try to put an insulation transformer before the PP2000 to see it helps to stabilize the last minor fluctuation of quality I still observe. I will be posting the result. Warn you that I do not look for or expect any improvement in quality but I rather will be looking improvement in sound stability and grid decompiling.

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-27-2011

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manisandher
London
Posts 158
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #:	819
Post ID:	15869
Reply to:	15868

Sorry, I mis-quoted

Romy the Cat wrote:
BTW, there are reasonably simple tests to verify that your unit does or does not have the problem that my November units has, the testing procedures you will need to get from PurePower.

I will certainly look into this. Thanks.

Romy the Cat wrote:
I do not exactly buy the notion that “your new mains circuit would help get the best out of the PP2000” ...

Actually, I re-read the email that Damian sent me quite a while ago when I had just received my PP2000. I had asked him a question about the noise that the PP2000 would inject back into the mains and he suggested that this would be minimised by having a large isolation transformer and a low impedence ground. So not quite what I thought he had said.

But right now I'm very happy with the sound I'm getting. If it transpires that there is indeed something wrong with my PP2000, and that once fixed the sound improves further, I'll then be extremely happy.

I'm interested in hearing how you get on with "stabilizing the last minor fluctuation of quality".

Mani.

03-28-2011

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	820
Post ID:	15872
Reply to:	2931

The OTHER SIDE the Sound of Electricity.

I wonder if the Super Electricity Days hide another side in themselves. Remind you that the Super Electricity Days in the magnitude of sound quality are way beyond of what any devises including the PP2000 are able to furnish. I might explain the OTHER SIDE of Sound of Electricity but you need to some mental preparation in order to get it.

I am well informed that majority of people who read intent audio sites, including mine, are looking for motivation to run and to buy another piece of gear. I fight this tendency to a degree but unfortunately I still mostly have readers who are mostly looking for wrapped up solution instead of stimulators. This post about OTHER SIDE would give zero solutions and might just invite someone who are not dead to open your mind a bit about Sound of Electricity. Ok, let dive into abstraction a bit…

Let pretend that we have a fine operating playback driven from let say PP2000 that is immune from any event in power grid. Let pretend that we put 20403 insulation transformers between PP2000 and the wall or drive 5 PP2000 in consecutive chain. Let pretend that we have some kind of good sound. Then we have the Super Electricity Day and the sound goes over the roof.

Let analyze what happens. There are only two options:

1)   There is some kind of unknown to us X-Force in power lines during the Super Electricity Days and that PP2000 is still transparent to this X-Force.
2)   The improvement of sound quality during the Super Electricity Days has absolutely nothing to do with electricity that is running in power grid.

This second option or the proposal the improvement of sound during the Super Electricity Days has nothing to do with Electricity as we are accustom it understand is the subject of my post.

This is a subject that I expensively discuss with a friend of mine. Pretend you have the PP2000 running from buttery. Then we have the Super Electricity Day and Sound get 10 times better. You can’t blame the PP2000 as you are not connected to grid at all, even via ground. So, if it happens then what might be the factor? Let go to the pure realm of fancy and to pretend that during Super Electricity Day the electricity in power line did not get improved but instead power lines become to care some kind of X-Force that creates in our home some kind X-field. That X-field visa own unknown to use X-Radiation make out brain to perceive Sound in very much different way, of on out case to recognize the Sound Improvement.

I know it is a fantasy but if you look a bit deeper and with more attention to your own senses then it would not be too far from reality. Here are a few facts:

1)   During the Super Electricity Days the sound of my playback got improved even if PP2000 runs from buttery
2)   During the Horrible Electricity Days the sound in my car(!!!!) exactly follows the sound of electrical misery that have in my home if I do not use PP2000.

So, I do not know how about you but I do see in all of it some kind of biological dependency and it is very possible that in search for ultimate solution for best for sound electricity we do not need to use only oscilloscopes and distortion analyzers but also some kind of active good-filed transmitting antennas.   There is absolutely no research in this done by hi-end companies. By the venture of this post I would like to tip them to look in the direction of Biological Modulators. I understand that it might be very lucrative filed for high-end audio companies who accustomed to make money of any imaginable idiocy of own consumers and to propose to them to research Music Room Biological Modulators as like proposing a convicted child-molested sex offender to babysit your child. Still, with all my understanding the great possibility to abuse the concept I do feel that the direction is very perspective. It is very possible that we do not need any power regeneration at all and all that we need is to have some kind of transmitter and antenna in ours rooms that would make us do not register the electricity problems.

This is a huge area of absolutely not explored territory and no one look into it. Unfortunately…. It is very possible that we need less engineers but more doctors and physicians to understand what bad and good electricity does to us.

Rgs, Romy the Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-28-2011

Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree

Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	821
Post ID:	15873
Reply to:	15872

Atmosphere?

We have long spoken of the "electrical" event as something that is +/- "routed" by cables rather than being "contained" by the cables.

Whatever the "source" or "nature" of the electricity, the gear does use it. Sometimes "conditions favor electricity" that we manipulate for hi-fi.

Maybe the PP2000 somehow conditions either the electricity or the immediate "atmosphere" such that it "resembles" "favorable conditions"; or maybe the PP2000 does something to or with the electricty or atmosphere that makes it "less vulnerable" to "degradation" under "less-than-optimal" conditions?

Judging by the almost endless permutations of sound wrought by "electricity", it seems likely that there are several factors at work that result in the performance we "recognize". Clearly, a "perfect wave form" is no guarantee of what we audio-psychos accept as "good electricity", even though perfect waves" have not been shown to be a sonic problem, either.

I have long thought that humidity and atmospheric/ionic charge were factors, although I have not done anything empirical to delineate or connect either of these "factors" to signiture sound(s), with and/or without other "electrical" considerations. Shouldn't be too tough to take some readings and keep a log...

How these "external factors" may affect our listening is anyone's guess at this point, although the relationship between atmospheric/ion charge/"count" and "mood" has been reasonably established, I think, and I believe these are also under consideration in establishing super-conductance and super-vision and super-listening connections; anything where "optimal conductivity" is desired.

Paul S

03-28-2011

Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree

Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	822
Post ID:	15874
Reply to:	15873

The SOHO data?

Taking about the external events I more inclined to look at SOHO data and to correlate it with sonic results – probably it is what I need start to do. SOHO is the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory an international project studies the Sun’s solar wind. They publish dally data of Sun’s solar speed and density

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/

http://umtof.umd.edu/pm

http://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Technology-WS-2811OAK-Professional-Weather/dp/B0034VP5W0

It might be a good idea to have a chart of sound quality and to correlate it with chart of solar activity. If there is a direct coloration then it would be a phenomenal discovery, worth a Audio Noble Price, which is equivalent of two free Patricia barber 350g LPs….

So, boys, next time you note some especially bad or especially good Sound then hit the SOHO data and see what is doing on.

Rgs. Romy the Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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