joaco wrote:

I think the amp is "immune" because of the nice circuit design ; condensator , choke and rectification (filtering) .

joaco wrote:

We have here in Chile some guys calles "Fernadez&Fica" who build and sell to the USA and other countries some very nice productos , they are concentrating in resolving all kinds of failure on the ac wave and using very good quality material . I do not know if in the USA , (but I think that yes) some people have experienced with the very high end labs that manufacture medical filtering/protection/correction devices I have my hope on them rather than on the audio high end manofacturers . Im trying to contact these guys to see what they think , but im a little afraid they could give me their points of view only as engineers . We haven´t those kind of electric storms or heavy snowing , but I firmly think there could be a solution in some other field .

scooter wrote:

Indeed, this is a reference to how important electricity might be. After last night, I almost feel as though my equipment is a much less important factor and takes a backseat to everything else. At this stage, I am thinking it makes sense to park my other audio projects for now and really focus on getting the electricity consistently as good as possible.

Ok, you got it. I felt this 15 year back but during all that time I was not able to find any solution.

scooter wrote:

Goal is to remove volatility and raise overall level to last night's level. Next week I meet with a retired power plant engineer from GE who does a lot of tinkering and I will pick his brain.

Please keep me updated but I do not have high expectations. I did speak with number of people from those fields in past – they do not recognize the categories by which we, the audio people, understand the quality of electricity.

Now I would like to bring a bigger picture...

Two days ago sound was spectacular, last night no so good. Mind you that both of the days have absolutely identical wave forms in the wall and identical amount of distortions. Explain that!  A reader of my site wrote to me yesterday:

“…. there is an obvious big factor at work. Most of the problems with utility power quality are caused by industrial and commercial users and their equipment - plus the utility switching and generation adjustments to accommodate them. Big snow and ice storms = dramatic reduction in industrial activity. Even industries still operating have reduced shifts and reduced processing.”

I am not sure that I agree with it as there was no change of distortion of waveform when electricity sounded good and sounded bad. Also, I do not know how in his country but in US I did not see that industrial slow down during the snow storms. I think the explanation is in more favoriteable transitions condition for electoral wires, but this sound as ridicules as  explanation that   industry got to halt what  there is 3“ or snow on the ground.

This problem with electricity need to be addressed as the electricity problems have deeply imbedded itself in all audio evaluations. Just before the snow storm, what electricity was not so good I visited local guy who show off his playback with new MF drivers. He played to me own FM recordings. It was amazingly horrible. Then I played attention that the name of the files was no mine but he added to my name. I asked what he did with filer and he explained that he used one of those horrible digital toys that extend dymick of the files.  I asked to play the original file, the sound was instantly fixed but as many FM it was very dynamically compressed.  Just for fun I was playing the same “compressed” file 2 days back, when the electric was spectacular. The file still was dymickly compressed but auditable experience was at absolutely different level – it was 10 times less auditable compressed then it was before storm and it subjectively sounded truly more dynamic then any CD we played before the storm. Interning that the guy does use the PP2000…

The mistaken concussions that we make about sound of audio that in fact the sound of electricity are enormous. Last night a sire reader sent me email:

“I have had the exact same experience you and scooter described.  This evenings listening was bad compared to a few days ago.  I am glad to read your post because all evening I have been adjusting VTA/VTF, thinking this was the reason everything was off.  All the adjustments did not help.”

How idiotic is it what a person hear bright sound begin to fucking up with VTA/VTF? Incredibly idiotic but what would you propose to the person to do if he knows that he changed nothing and that a day before he has absolutely different sound? Mind you that the person does use PP2000…

The two examples that I brought are related. First of all I do not know what version of PP2000 they have and if this units operate properly. What I said that last night it did not sound so goof I did not mean that it sounded as bad as my November wrecked regenerators sounded. The November PP2000 was unlistenable. My new PP2000 I described last night as “sound not as good” but it was in comparing to a day before when electricity in the wall itself was truly stunning. The sound was “not as good” but acceptable and not “unlistenable”.  I am sure that if I did not run PP2000 then it would be much-much worse. Still, it look like PP2000 do inherent partially the sound of the original power lines. The PS audio power plane did the same but it fucked up sound on it’s own, the PP2000 looks like provide better result but not the ultimate result.

So, if we presume that Pure Power will fix two my remaining PP2000 to the level of my current one then where I see the refocusing efforts might be? The PP2000 has already a small 470uF caps bypassing this battery. That is very good but might not (or might) be enough. I would try 60000-120000uF and will see if it makes any difference. To run one regenerator after other might be a good idea, and I would like to have option to have second regenerator not switching one. I need to reinstate my efforts and to rebuilt the Avicenna - it is linear devise and it will not have problem to work before or after the PP2000.

The biggest problem however is the testing procedure as whatever you test you are not familiar how today the electricity sound. I can say it by ears but I do not know what to measure in electricity to associate the auditable with objectively measurable. What I think however is absolutely necessary is PurePower to take their hand out of pocket and to give to us a bypass switch. The bypass switch has already existed in the unit and it works very nicely. All that is necessary is to run a two wires from the element that control this switch to a jack on the back of the unit (did I said the button on the front of the unit?). Only God knows why PurePower did not do it already. The people who sell PP2000 will have a good demonstration tool about PP2000 effectiveness. We do need the bypass switch on Pure Power.  The bypass switch will allow to monitor the quality of electricity in the wall and to build correlations. Having all my gear plagued into PP2000 I have no way to do it besides to re-plug everything. This is ridicules!I need a bypass switch on PP2000!

I think it would have to do more with power lines conductivity under low temperatures than with industry pollution:

"Even among the materials considered conductive, there can be vast differences in how much electricity can actually pass through. In electrical terms, this is called resistance. Almost all normal conductors of electricity have some resistance because they have atoms of their own, which block or absorb the electrons as they pass through the wire, water or other material. A little resistance may be useful to keep the electrical flow under control, but it can also be inefficient and wasteful."

"A superconductor takes the idea of resistance and turns it on its head. A superconductor is generally composed of synthetic materials or metals such as lead or niobiumtitanium which already have a low atomic count. When these materials are frozen to nearly absolute zero, what atoms they do have grind to a near-halt. Without all of this atomic activity, electricity can flow through the material with practically no resistance. In practical terms, a computer processor or electric train track equipped with a superconductor would use very little electricity to perform its functions."

http://www.wisegeek.com/how-does-a-superconductor-work.htm

Or it might just be the full moon!


I live in Mexico city, so no freezing here (which is good)  I have a friend with a very good sound system that lives in one of the most populated areas in the city,  he has no power conditioning of any kind , after having tested a lot of them, he likes his power directly from the grid!  His system does sound pretty good even at daytime.  I live in a suburb where there should be less comercial and indsutrial power lines pollution and my electricity is useless during the daytime. 
We do have a lot of sun....hmmmm

Lx_ wrote:

Those recent posts of yours are making me wonder whether my PP2000 unit is really faulty, as PurePower acknowledged on this very forum. After all, you are starting to recognize that PP is sensitive to incoming electricity in your own units. This makes several cases where we have strong suspicion (if not actually convinced already) that wall electricity still has an impact on Sound, even though PP is supposed to filter it.

Lx, it is very difficult to correlate notes about sound over internet. Yes, I begin to recognize that PP is sensitive to incoming electricity but it is all about degree. It looks like my unit now is properly operating (dose it?) and I do sense that there is SOME degree of sensitively to incoming electricity. Sound get a bit better or worse but it all still in more or less acceptable form. The November 3 units that I had were in very different scale. They sounded not a bit better or worse but unlistenable horrible, converting all sound into boring, gray monochromic unitone. So, I guess the faulty or not faulty is about the degree of being a bit worse vs. to be the worst. As you understand it is hard to convey over internet.

Lx_ wrote:

In my case, difference in Sound is not outstanding, but once you know what to listen for, you can easily say when Sound is fine (no appliance on) or not. Also, I have appliances drawing several kW, and this leads to a reduction in dynamics, as well as adds micro-level noise that makes timbres a little less accurate and phrasing tends to disappear. Overall Sound is a bit more dull.

Lx, I like how you describe Sound. Yes, what you describe are both characteristics of faulty unit and none- faulty unit, the key point are degree.  The faulty unit will have subdued phrasing and eaten dynamic contact even with best electricity. It will be colorless. It will be like a TV with max out brightness but with turned off saturation. Knowing what was wrong in the faulty unit there is one test that you might easy perform. Play a loud orchestral crash with bass drum.  I for 15 years use is my reference Swan Lake crash that I feel is juts perfect for me. If you feel that playback clip or sag under the crash then your PP is faulty. Make sure that it is NOT your amp or speakers are clipping however. The properly operating PP2000 shall keep your cash very clean to the very moment what the voice coils will fly out of your woofers.

There is another very easy test: the sound of bassoon-like instruments. Lasted the overtones of those woodwind instruments. The sophistication of HF overtones while they do their basic notes shall instantly give you the snapshot of the health of your PP2000.

Lx_ wrote:

Could each of you tell me if they are using dedicated AC line to feed their PP? If not, can you hear a difference in sound when 1-2 kW are drawn by appliances in your house (typically heaters at this time of year)?

I have a dedicated lines but I use one half of my utility lines. It sound the best among all 3 chooses I have. I have no explanation for that.

Lx_ wrote:

This episode of fantastic electricity gave me excellent dynamics and oooh, so good phrasing. It reminded me of the recent test I did when running on battery. Now that test was very short, because my battery is now almost 2 years old and cannot hold longer than 10-15 minutes, so I cannot be certain. But if PP on battery is indeed as good as fantastic electricity, it means that at least PP does not add noise to incoming AC. This is new for me, I suspected the charging (or some other) stage might leak into output. Of course it also means the PP is useless in case of fantastic electricity (which almost never happens for me). Now PP filtering should be improved so that input noise is removed and output sounds as on battery or with fantastic electricity.

Yes, the PP from battery is fantastic. The PP from AC most of the file is very close to what is from  battery. I might be that later prodaction of PP are more sensitive to electricity then before. I it very difficult to make a definitive conclusion.

bernie_f wrote:

Did you ever have a walk in fresh powder snow in the countryside? The zillions of crystals of water are doing a perfect job of damping noise - at least in the audible spectrum. Even big cities like the one i am living in are turning very quiet. One effect could be the lower noise-floor our gear has to fight against during playback. So decays and harmonics could have more chance to reach our ears without interference by ambience noise. Also don't forget what this silence and relaxation does to our mind and our capabilities to relax and let the music flow directly into our soul... Peter Belt did a lot of research in that field. We should accept that the simple molecule of H2O in all his variations can do a lot of things scientists never thought possible. Maybe snow crystals lying around can even do something with all the hi-frequency noise filling the air and landscape surrounding us and our gear.

bernie_f wrote:

fresh powder snow in the countryside? The zillions of crystals of water are doing a perfect job of damping noise - at least in the audible spectrum.

joaco wrote:

bernie_f wrote: fresh powder snow in the countryside? The zillions of crystals of water are doing a perfect job of damping noise - at least in the audible spectrum. but the point is that there are so many variables out there that can make 2 equal equipment sound different and that those variables im afraid we cannot measure .

joaco wrote:

Last year while I was in the search for my actual DAC I came across lossless site ... and now I rememeber on their dac they are using batteries as a an alternative mode to ac . Also I found very interesting the concept that they use in their cables trying to avoid the skin effect . I do not know from my experience what implies filtering with capacitors , but from their point of view , the dielectric is the primary limitation . Beyond that has anybody prove their theory about their cables/skin effect ??

Romy the Cat wrote:

… The sound still a bit harder then I would like it to have…  I do not find any sensible explanations.

Paul S wrote:

Joaco, all this will probably be moved back to the "Electricity" thread, which is not really an APS Forum, as it has appeared for a while, now. Paul

Paul S wrote:

You do not mention the manufacturer's name, although I see that the screen you pictured bears its legends in English rather than Spanish, albeit 230V is not the USA standard, unless we are talking about "balanced" input. Paul

Paul S wrote:

I hope you will also explain about the batteries you use, how you charge and re-charge them, and if the batteries charge while the power supply is in use for hi-fi, or if the unit is "unplugged", running only on batteries, when it is used for hi-fi.Paul

Paul S wrote:

Please also tell about the system "capacity" in Watts and the useable running time (Amp hours...).Paul

unicon wrote:

Joaco But Can you mention the name of the product too ? The manufacturer Site is in Spanish and I could not find out which one is it. Another question is do you reckon that they will ship single unit outside usa too ?

Paul S wrote:

Lots of these units make for "blacker backgrounds" and a "wider soundstage", however this has in the past come at the expense of the essence and substance of the music, according to various other audible defects brought on by the "regenerator"; typically, broadly, there are problems with dynamics and tonal variation.

Paul S wrote:

I suspect that none of these units so far have really been designed from scratch for hi-fi, rather I suspect that most of the "hi-fi-specific" units are +/- minor adaptations of prior technology with "added features" and marketing aimed at audiophiles.  Most of the "prior technology" seems to be along the lines of somehow manipulating oscilliscope traces to show nice shapes, and "audiophile" versions typically offer some ways to play with the things while they are in use.

Paul S wrote:

Since you use your unit directly from wall power and you like the results, will you also tell what sort of speakers you use and what sort of music, at what sort of volumes, you like better with the unit engaged?