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  »  New  Problems with horns: upper bass ..  Must it be about loading?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     109  1130393  03-25-2005
  »  New  Barn Conversion - James' Project..  The vintage vs. contemporary compression driver....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     28  353250  02-04-2007
  »  New  About bass horns by Johan Dreyer..  There are lowest bass horns and there are not lowest b...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  91337  02-11-2008
  »  New  La Grande Castine..  Good luck...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     57  550378  09-07-2009
  »  New  The most promising “best” commercial speaker..  Munich High End 2023...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     192  1734939  12-06-2006
  »  New  European Triode Festival 2009 – good, bad and ugly...  Schröder, Walker and a weekend with Bernie...  Audio Discussions  Forum     10  28209  12-14-2009
  »  New  French Horns/drivers shootout (oops! S2 came last)..  My bad...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     7  70491  12-07-2010
  »  New  Where the Horns Light is shining from?..  Where the Horns Light is shining from?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  11256  12-09-2010
09-08-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 26
Post ID: 11697
Reply to: 11695
The second "best" commercial horn speaker?
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Marc HENRY wrote:
hi all,
thanks for your interest !
yes the frame is curved, HF and MF are //
yes there is a phase plug in the bass horn. This cover 80-300Hz.
there is a separate infra-bass section, covering 20-80Hz.
images of the bass phase plug and the infra-bass section are not available yet...

crossover is full passive, firt order. all driver are time aligned for a listening position at a distance of 3 meters and over.
much more details comming soon on our website...

Best regards,
Marco ---
http://musique-concrete.com/MC/Galerie.html#17

Well, Marc, what you said addressed all my concerns. The HF and MF are parallel, the upperbass is not. I think it might be OK in this case as your upperbass is dipole that would greatly mask out any phase anomalies. The upperbass is very narrow banded with 80-300Hz. That is a good range foe this topology of horn. I presume it it has a resonance somewhere around 80Hz and with a proper selection of driver it might work very well. The presence of the separate sub 80Hz section imidetaly brings this system from the state of stupid wishful thinking into a realm of very lucid design, my congratulations.

Looking at what you have done I think that the only “slippery” moment in this speaker is the high knee of the upperbass and lover knee of MF. If your MF driver goes down to 300Hz then it is very “pushy” I would say. That would require a good 120Hz -140Hz horn but your MF horn strike me as 170Hz-200Hz horn. I do not know you but let presume that since you did not make other mistakes then you know what you do and what you hear. Then you would not load into a 200Hz Le Cléac’h horn 300Hz compression driver with first order. Well, you might go for it if you need it and it you upperbass cannot go up enough but in your case, having the shallow upperbass horn and a phase plug in the upperbass, you have no necessity to kill the upperbass at 300Hz.  So, if to presuming that you know what you hear and that your speaker sounds good then most likely here is what happen in them. You most likely do not let the MF god all the way down to 300Hz. You might highpass the upperbass at 300Hz electrically with your “crossover is full passive, first order” but in reality a single coil would not stop those drivers. At 300Hz the inductance of those midbass woofers become co-measurable with the inductance of the filter coil, so you crossover point slips all the way up. I might presume that the actual -3dB from upperbass you have at 700-1000Hz that would mask out your lower knee of your MF channel.  So, the octave where your MF and upperbass work together you use as a virtual Macondo’s “Fundamental Channel”. This is might take how your speaker work if it sounds balanced.

Ok, to conclude the things. It looks like from what it presented now the speaker is done with no mistakes and even I can’t find a rational to bitch about them. I nominate this “La Grande Castine” as the second “The most promising ‘best’ commercial horn speaker” right after the Cessaro Gamma. So, how the La Grande Castine sounds? Since there are no strategic mistakes in the design then the speaker will sound as good as the drivers are able to.  I have no idea what drivers La Grande Castine use and it looks as then went into extend to hide the drivers identity. If the drivers are very good then the Castine might sound very promising.

When the information about the bass section become available then, please, post a note.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-08-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
KLegind
Posts 34
Joined on 04-03-2008

Post #: 27
Post ID: 11699
Reply to: 11695
HF channel - BMS 4540
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hello Marc Henry,

I am curious as to why you picked the 4540 driver for HF. I have no experience with this unit but it is interesting since the design claims to be of the "ring-radiator" type. This topology was invented by Steen Duelund for use in regular non-hornloaded tweeters, but BMS claims its a ring-radiator so it might be BS or it might not be...

The ring-radiator that I have heard was from Duelunds own hand and did not sound like a regular dome tweeter, but more akin to a good compression driver.
Now, what do you think about the Sound of this driver? And what does it offer that other drivers dont?

Sincerely
Kris

PS. I hope this question is not off topic.
09-08-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 28
Post ID: 11700
Reply to: 11699
Come on, French people! You can do it!
fiogf49gjkf0d
I think the most interning would be to learn what kind MF and upperbass drivers were used, particularly the MF. I hope they are not the German BMS drivers as it would be a major turn off. It looks like 2” throat, would it be possible that French folks made their own compression driver? I think it time for them to do it. Everyone trued to make them, even the fucked up in horns Russians did compression driver (by Lomo and Kinup).  How come that French never did compression driver? I think it is time to them to join the club…. With all French devotion to patriotism and since of cultural superiority I think it would be fun to hear a first French compression driver.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-08-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Markus
Posts 68
Joined on 03-07-2007

Post #: 29
Post ID: 11701
Reply to: 11699
Jumping to conclusions?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 KLegind wrote:
Hello Marc Henry,

I am curious as to why you picked the 4540 driver for HF.


The 4540 was used in the prototype described at the beginning of this thread. It is unknown whether the present version of the Grande Castine uses the same driver complement.
09-08-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
be
Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts 86
Joined on 02-12-2007

Post #: 30
Post ID: 11702
Reply to: 11699
Ring radiators
fiogf49gjkf0d
"This topology was invented by Steen Duelund"
Ah-hm, ring radiators where not invented or even re-invented by the Steen Duelund dude, just copied.
JBL used the priciple 40 years prior to that in: 2402-2403-2404-2405  and Fostex have been using them also: T90 T825 T925 T500.
The BMS is indeed a ring radiator.

Cheers
09-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Marc HENRY
Posts 6
Joined on 12-19-2007

Post #: 31
Post ID: 11707
Reply to: 11699
Drivers, bass horn, other
fiogf49gjkf0d
wow.
thanks for comments.
La Grande Castine will not be as expensive as Cessaro Gamma.

i am sorry but i cannot answer to all questions, for several reasons you can understand.
we have tested many drivers since the early prototype of La Grande Castine. BMS were the very first.
i am a bit surprised that anybody here recognize the brand name of the bass horn speakers :-)

As Romy mentionned, the electric cutoff of the MF is close to the acoustical cutoff of the horn. this is not so audible around 300Hz. i never do such a thing in the 600-3000Hz area !
even if the crossover is 6db everywhere, i confirm that the effective cutoff of the bass horn is really 300Hz. there is no MF pollution comming out of this horn. I am proud of this phase plug :-D

Best regards,
Marco ---
09-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
KLegind
Posts 34
Joined on 04-03-2008

Post #: 32
Post ID: 11708
Reply to: 11702
Ring-radiator
fiogf49gjkf0d
 be wrote:
"This topology was invented by Steen Duelund"
Ah-hm, ring radiators where not invented or even re-invented by the Steen Duelund dude, just copied.
JBL used the priciple 40 years prior to that in: 2402-2403-2404-2405  and Fostex have been using them also: T90 T825 T925 T500.
The BMS is indeed a ring radiator.

Cheers


The Vifa and Scanspeak ring-radiators are different. THey are a variation of dome tweeters working through controlled breakup - I was under the impression that the BMS 4540 was a novel design.

I would still like to know about its "sound".
09-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 11709
Reply to: 11707
The midbass merge and about the new environment.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Marc HENRY wrote:
La Grande Castine will not be as expensive as Cessaro Gamma.

i am sorry but i cannot answer to all questions, for several reasons you can understand.
we have tested many drivers since the early prototype of La Grande Castine. BMS were the very first.
i am a bit surprised that anybody here recognize the brand name of the bass horn speakers :-)

As Romy mentionned, the electric cutoff of the MF is close to the acoustical cutoff of the horn. this is not so audible around 300Hz. i never do such a thing in the 600-3000Hz area !
even if the crossover is 6db everywhere, i confirm that the effective cutoff of the bass horn is really 300Hz. there is no MF pollution comming out of this horn. I am proud of this phase plug :-D

Marco, price is not a mach of a subject at this site. If read around then you will see that quite a few horns systems or ideas were passing thought my attention but very few met any more or less favoriteable acceptance.

As now, there are 2 things that I would mention in context of your speakers.

First: do not be afraid to run your upperbass higher then 600Hz. I do not know how about the 3000Hz but the higher out of upperbass is not a pollution, even though your upperbass has angled axis with all time-alignment consequences. Even if your MF compression driver can handle confidently 300Hz and to produce interesting sonic result while doing it (that I doubt) then it does not mean that your upperbass mast stop at 600Hz. Let presume that you use woofers with copper caps that would control the inductance change (to a degree), even then there is no need to keep the 600Hz firm. (BTW, I do have an idea how you control low pass since you are proud of this phase plug – my compliments and I will go there for the reasons you proposed to understand.) Still, you might feel that in your situation the low-pass of your upperbass sound fine but it might be very much not the case in a slightly different room. An ability of the MF and upperbass to work an octave of a half octave together is a very good tool to control the weight of fundamentals. It would depend from the room and the listening distance. So, if I were you I would tap the coil that roll of your upperbass with 3-6 taps. Letting uses to set electric crossover point at let say 600Hz, 800Hz or 1000Hz. In your specific case (dipole and axis) you shall not worry about the timing problem that would arrive in other cases.

Second: As I understand you are moving from DIY environment to making a Hi-Fi commercial speaker. Respecting the time and money you have devoted to the venture I would like to give you a world of advice. The DIY and High-End commercial trades are very different animals. In DIY you mostly face extremely ignorant, low demand, cronyism driver audio-lumpenproletariat that would kiss you in ass during your diarrhea. The business  “success” in DIY environment is about to be mutually friendly, promise internal loyalty and telling to each idiot you face that s/he is “special”. The High-End commercial trade is very different. As in DIY trade the sound of your speaker is irrelevant. What is relevant would be the amount and the quality of personal you sight up to promote your products. Under the “quality of personal” I mean that you need to built a network of the dirtiest scams around the word, to collect the creatures who would fuck own mother for 3 easy payments of $19.95. Like it or not but those people, not you and not your speaker, will be something that assures the success of your business venture. I wish you sign-on to your projects the dirtiest and the most audio-retarded inhabitants of audio. Then your new acoustic system might get some momentum in this “hobby”

I wish you good luck with your new project. Please, when you finish uploading to your site all public information about the “La Grande Castine” then past a note at my site.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
RonyWeissman
Lyon, France
Posts 138
Joined on 05-29-2004

Post #: 34
Post ID: 11710
Reply to: 11707
(near) Paris Audition?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hello Marco,Nice to see you posting at romy's site.  I would very much like to come listen to your speakers when you are ready for auditions.  I am very happy with my 320hz Musique concrete horns, and am still sorry you didn't have the time to build the midbass horns for me, though now I realize why!  Good luck with the La Grande Castine, R WeissmanLyon, France
09-12-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Markus
Posts 68
Joined on 03-07-2007

Post #: 35
Post ID: 11714
Reply to: 11710
Enquiring minds want to know
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hello Rony,

have you detailed your set-up somewhere on this site? I'd very much like to know what you're using with Marco's horns.
09-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
RonyWeissman
Lyon, France
Posts 138
Joined on 05-29-2004

Post #: 36
Post ID: 11724
Reply to: 11714
Enquiring minds would be bored
fiogf49gjkf0d
HI Markus,Thanks for your interest but it is off-topic in this thread, and of no real interest.  My system, other than Marco's 320hz horns with Vitavox S2s, is completely commercial and mostly just slapped together.  Regards,R Weissman
09-14-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Markus
Posts 68
Joined on 03-07-2007

Post #: 37
Post ID: 11731
Reply to: 11724
That's fine.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Sorry, didn't mean to be inquisitive.
10-12-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 38
Post ID: 11955
Reply to: 11709
The write up about La Grande Castine
fiogf49gjkf0d

The 6moons put up some pastures and some details. Interesting that Marc refused to comment about the specifics of the driver and this use but the 6moons has published all information.

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/grandecastine/1.html

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-12-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
RonyWeissman
Lyon, France
Posts 138
Joined on 05-29-2004

Post #: 39
Post ID: 11957
Reply to: 11955
Grande castine website
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi romy,Have you had a look at the website recently (site address above in marco's mail), they have very detailed discussion of midbass horn with photos of phase-plug etc. unfortunately it may be only in french ...R Weissman
07-01-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 40
Post ID: 13901
Reply to: 6141
Srajan Ebayn, Sarah Palin and the “great Ronald Regan”.
fiogf49gjkf0d

As an update of his former article

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/grandecastine/1.html

Srajan Ebayn of the 6moomsposted the second part:

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/grandecastine/2.html

It looks like the Marco new revision of his speaks features new drivers, some kind of Titanium midrange and Cyrille Audio 15” cone woofers. I do not know – perhaps it is some kind of mental disorder in my head but I truly did not get what Srajan Ebayn was saying. It was some kind of cacophony of familiar buzz was but they do not form sentences in my head.  To me Srajan more and more sounds like Sarah Palin….

Anyhow, I need to let he Srajan Ebayn go – there is not need to trauma traumatized. Whoever are interested about Marco new revision of loudspeaker might reads the link above. I wish Ebayn would not talk himself but juts quote what was told to him – it would be I am sure less idiocy. I do not have an opinion about the Marco’s new design but there is something the I already very much do not like. Wherever Srajan Ebayn posts, of published elsewhere was signed off by manufacturer.  So, Marco and whoever works with him have seen the picture of Hugues Borsarello - “the concert violinist and electrical designer par excellence” sating with his erected violin next to the speaker.  I understand the Srajan’s motivations: the massaging cheap kitsch and cheese visual superficiality is his destiny. However, when the French guys inspected the article and signed it off for posting then didn’t they see that Hugues’ depicting with a  violin and the speaker is too tasteless?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-01-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Marc HENRY
Posts 6
Joined on 12-19-2007

Post #: 41
Post ID: 13902
Reply to: 13901
Srajan Ebaen opinion
fiogf49gjkf0d
I all,Perhaps there is someone here who can visit us in Cognac, to verify if Srajan Ebaen is right or not ?every music lover is welcome :-)Regards,Marco ---
07-01-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
skushino
Seattle, WA
Posts 93
Joined on 07-07-2004

Post #: 42
Post ID: 13905
Reply to: 13902
Upper bass driver
fiogf49gjkf0d
Marc Henry-

In the 6moons write-up, you mentioned the Altec 515 re-issue not being satisfactory for your purposes on the Grande Castine horn.  I presume the specific 515 variant you used was the 'g' type (designed for horn loading) rather than 515'b' type (designed for reflex enclosures), correct?  Would you share some of your reservations about this driver?  I'm curious if you were dissatisfied with tone, integrating with the upper bass horn, integrating with the mid range horn, or something else?  Thanks.

Scott
07-01-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Marc HENRY
Posts 6
Joined on 12-19-2007

Post #: 43
Post ID: 13908
Reply to: 13905
515-G/Cyrille Audio
fiogf49gjkf0d
Of course i used the 515-G. this famous speaker suited very well to our bass horn...as any other bass horn ! the only problem with the 515-G was a upper end a bit...noisy with our 6db crossover.
When we started with Cyrille-audio a project of a 15" for bass horn in 2007, it was mostly for fun. but in 2008  we were advised of some changes in GPA production (stiffer diaphragm for the 515-G). so this "fun project" became a "vital project" Our 15" is more "fast" than the best 515-G versions, with less "noise" around the 2000-4000Hz area.Regards,Marco ---
07-01-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
skushino
Seattle, WA
Posts 93
Joined on 07-07-2004

Post #: 44
Post ID: 13909
Reply to: 13908
Altec 515 hf 'noise'
fiogf49gjkf0d
Interesting experience - thanks for sharing.

Just yesterday I posted about this topic:

http://goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=13892#13892

I will first use a 6dB/octave crossover, but may need to go to a higher order slope instead.  I'm crossing lower than you (around 200hz) - this will help.

Nice work on your horns. 
07-01-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 45
Post ID: 13910
Reply to: 13902
Srajan vs. Ebaen
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Marc HENRY wrote:
I all,Perhaps there is someone here who can visit us in Cognac, to verify if Srajan Ebaen is right or not ?every music lover is welcome :-)Regards,Marco ---

Marco, it is good that you invite people but I do not think that to “verify Srajan Ebaen” is a noble task for anyone. Srajan’s travel and his audio advantage are well known in Europe and very many audio manufactures from Europe reports who he is and what he is after. Even this week I receive two emails (completely not solicited) from a small European manufactures who informed me what Srajan was after and how they sorry that they got involved. I personally feel that their “sorry” excuse is a lie as the Morons do read the Srajan’s pornography and as result help them to sell their products. However, here is where the difference between you and me lies. You do have publicity and exposure interest as you consider a commercial venture in audio. I do not and therefore the Srajan’s efforts of exposure and marketing are completely irrelevant to me.

Now, take a look what happen. You are manufacture who made a new revision of your speaker. You expose this speaker to a marketing clerk with anticipation that it will be a quality observation of your work. What you get instead besides the Larry King level journalism and Larry Flint level illustrations? In a way the situation not different with many today musical reviews. Read my comment below:

http://classical-scene.com/2010/06/28/thanks/

Anyhow, as in many other case in my cases I would omit the at this point the commentaries about your speakers but juts note the very primitive level of Srajan to talk an about your speaker and about audio generally. Partially I understand Srajan – he writes for idiots and he writes at a level to be understood. Does it mean that Srajan journalism shall not be called idiotic?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-02-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 46
Post ID: 13911
Reply to: 13910
Bred and Games
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
 Partially I understand Srajan – he writes for idiots and he writes at a level to be understood. Does it mean that Srajan journalism shall not be called idiotic?
The Cat
I think, we should change our view for High End.We (the customers, those who pay the bill) are always mad or frustrated about reviewers (Astor, Valin, and son on..) and this discussion was endless, is endless and won't change in future.
When we change our view to ourselves, I think, we don't deserve it any better (exception me, because I am one of the good guys), we want to read that. I don't think, the customer wants to read real information how bad the unit is he bought just a few weeks ago ("..I got a good price...")
All changed for entertainment and a writer has the most power, because he is in the first row to the manufacturer. The manufacturer needs him for the readers, he needs the manufacturer to write and to get paid for it. When he stays on the consumer side, what would happen?Would they say " thank you, that you wrote that this cartridge is so awful..". Hardly. Consumers can be a real pain. They want all, know nothing and want a good price for it.
It is like in the old Rome: "Bred & Games"



Kind Regards
Stitch
07-02-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 47
Post ID: 13912
Reply to: 13911
The missed opportunity. Did you mean Bread & Circus?
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Stitch wrote:

I think, we should change our view for High End.We (the customers, those who pay the bill) are always mad or frustrated about reviewers (Astor, Valin, and son on..) and this discussion was endless, is endless and won't change in future.
When we change our view to ourselves, I think, we don't deserve it any better (exception me, because I am one of the good guys), we want to read that. I don't think, the customer wants to read real information how bad the unit is he bought just a few weeks ago ("..I got a good price...")
All changed for entertainment and a writer has the most power, because he is in the first row to the manufacturer. The manufacturer needs him for the readers, he needs the manufacturer to write and to get paid for it. When he stays on the consumer side, what would happen?Would they say " thank you, that you wrote that this cartridge is so awful..". Hardly. Consumers can be a real pain. They want all, know nothing and want a good price for it.
It is like in the old Rome: "Bred & Games"

Stitch,

Sure, we can convert this thread into another bitching about reviewers but it was not my objective. My objective was to express a frustration about one more missed opportunity that Srajan facilitated. His observation about Grande Castine was the observation about nothing. Srajan converted the subject of audio into “America's Got Talent” TV shows where retardation and compliance with movie “Idiocracy” become a virtue.

What we learn about new Grande Castine? That the people who do it live where good wine is made, that some of them have a wife who love big speakers and that Srajan Ebayn, most likely with his wife made a whole-paid off trip in there. Oh, year, we learned that Srajan made many remarks about audio so uninformed that he clearly demonstrated that he shall not be in a position of public speaking.

Well, Srajan of cause is not the true subject. The true subject is the new Grande Castine and their new LF section. What was told about them? Absolutely nothing valuable! Did you get any impression about sonic capacity of the Grande Castine? Oh, yes! Srajan felt that they were better then ….. Avantgarde Duo! What a fucking revelation!

My point is that in today audio manufactures do not have voice, unfortunately. If they try to develop own manufactures voice then the voice get substituted by sales force voice (BAT, Magico). There is absolutely nothing wrong with an independent person visit a manufactures and post his observations. Srajan went to France to see the Grande Castine makers. The makers took him fishing for 3 days. Srajan honestly described what kind fish he caught and what the temperature of water in that French lake was. The Sound interests and sonic capacity of the Grande Castine went very far outside of the Srajan viewfinder…. From my perspective it is very unfortunate.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-04-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 48
Post ID: 15696
Reply to: 6119
Assholes, learn from Grande Castine
fiogf49gjkf0d
It is what I usually say – most audio people horns-wise are just Morons and the design ideas of their playbacks are a pure evidence of it. You have seen many installations where horns, drivers, and channels are pile brainlessly. The Morons do it then then they write long opuses about sound of this and that vintage driver. I hate those idiots. It is the same as to seam in a pool of liquid shit and to pitch about delicate perfume.
Anyhow, the reason I write is because it might be different. The resent advancement of Grande Castine is a case to point.  I was referred today to the new image of the Grande Castine and to their new brilliant frame

NewGrandeCastine.jpg

Image from http://hornloaded-audio.blogspot.com/2011/02/grande-castine.html

It is very not expensive, very simple, very elegant and superbly smart way to organize horn frame for final found drivers. I love it and with all appear to be simplicity it takes years and years to experimenting with horns to come up with something like this.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-09-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 438
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 49
Post ID: 25688
Reply to: 15696
Au Revoir Grande Castine, Bonjour KornHent
Well, it looks like this beautiful speaker did not get the traction that it deserved. Musique Concrete is no more BUT Marco Henry is offering most of what the Grande Castine was on line for only 14000 Euros. Check this out:https://www.kornhent.bzh
The beautiful frame is unfortunately gone.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
11-09-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 50
Post ID: 25689
Reply to: 25688
The "Market" for Good Sound
Now as ever in hi-fi there seems to be no economically viable model for developing, producing, marketing and servicing  good sounding equipment. As ever, it remains for the end user to find and develop their own equipment from whatever happens to be available at the time. On the other hand, as ever there are still ways to do this, despite the demise of any given commercial product line. People in this forum seem to forget that horns don't sound better than other topologies but they are simply more efficient than other speakers, which opens the door to certain power options that are not honestly viable with other types of speakers. However, it's not about the topology, and it's not about the thickness of one's wallet, and it's not just about the ears but mainly what's between them. We can't just wait for "manufacturers" to do the job for us, and we certainly can't count on The Public to Support Good Sound. One of the most frustrating things for me has been that even at the level of drivers it seems to be almost entirely random in terms of real world result not just in terms of topology or even one line versus another but also driver to driver, down to individual units. Feh!


Paul S
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