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  »  New  Bruckner Ninth and the War...  The lovable Romy...  Musical Discussions  Forum     21  129023  04-07-2006
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  »  New  The Bruckner 5 by Benjamin Zander..  Defective Bruckner 5th...  Musical Discussions  Forum     6  54927  04-16-2008
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  »  New  Thinking about Bruckner harmonies...  My Bruckner?...  Musical Discussions  Forum     9  79449  04-16-2011
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  »  New  Those experiences. Early birthday...  BIRTHDAY BOY...  Playback Listening  Forum     1  24069  07-02-2011
  »  New  2011 Brucknerathon..  East Coast Brucknerathon came and went....  Musical Discussions  Forum     1  31194  08-12-2011
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  »  New  Easy Bruckner for Beginners...  Take me with you....  Musical Discussions  Forum     2  28550  12-01-2011
03-30-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 26
Post ID: 7051
Reply to: 4765
The new interesting Bruckner 7

It was 2 days ago – I opened my mails box and found a gift from Yoshi with a few very interesting Japanese CDs.

It was September 17, 1986. The ending his career Eugen Jochum takes Royal Concertgebouw to Japanese tour and plays in Tokyo Bruckner 7. It is recorded “live” and Altus Label released it on ALTO15/6 in their series “Tokyo Live”. What an interesting performance, particularly the first movement

There are many problems here and there in the Concertgebouw play under that Jochum, the second part of Adagio the sections were chasing each other and almost off the tune. But the Concertgebouw is one of the very few orchestras who can play slow and they in the first movement demonstrated a tour-de-force of slow play. There is some very freakish confidence with which Concertgebouw roles to own notes. It hard to explain: it is not really a tempo but a very idiosyncratic prolonging of notes before to collapsing them to the targeted pitch. Very, almost physically pleasant!

The Jochum opening thyme of the first movement has also one of the best ever introduction of the cellos among many others, not to mention that this cellos opening has a specials meaning to me…

After listening the Tokyo performance I decided to learn what else they play during that Japanese tour. To my big surprised I discovered that the entire performance was videotaped and… available on you tube.  God bless that Japanese Island and God bless the internet! Here is the first part, follow up the rest parts.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpvvzwbcSPo


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-31-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JANDL100


Forest of Dean, UK
Posts 71
Joined on 09-27-2007

Post #: 27
Post ID: 7052
Reply to: 7051
More great Jochum Bruckner 7 on DVD

I have an EMI DVD of Jochum conducting Bruckner 7.  Orchestre National de France, played in the Theatre de Champs Elysees, Paris, France, on 6th February 1980.

The performance is very special.  The opening especially is pretty much perfect!
You can buy it very cheaply on eBay here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Eugene-Jochum-Bruchkner-Symphony-No-7-DVD_W0QQitemZ370037872974QQihZ024QQcategoryZ2288QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

It's coupled with Wagner Tristan & Isolde excerpts from 1964.




Jerry
04-18-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
yoshi
Jefferson (MA), United States
Posts 69
Joined on 05-04-2005

Post #: 28
Post ID: 7245
Reply to: 7052
Jochum in Tokyo on DVD
Actually, the entire performance of Jochum in Tikyo on Sep. 17, 1986 is available on DVD.

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/2582492

I have one but it is area coded and I can only play on my computer.

Yoshi
09-04-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 29
Post ID: 8154
Reply to: 4765
Happy Birthday, Anton Bruckner!

It is 184 years…. Here is a funny renderation of Happy Birthday tune in Bruckner estimable style. The file is courtesy to John Berky of www.abruckner.com

http://www.abruckner.com/Data/editorsnote/happybirthday/birthday_bruckner.mp3

Rsg, the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-21-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 30
Post ID: 9855
Reply to: 8154
Solti/CSO: Pause and Effect
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LondonCSA 2216 (stereo), 1966

Given a work as monumental as B7 and an orchestra as mighty as the 1966 CSO, how do you play it?

While Solti is too smart and experienced to pull out all the stops, I can't shake the picture of someone driving around town in a Lamborghini.  Basically, there's no way to hide all that horsepower, and in this case it becomes a matter of always having far more on tap than you need.  Solti does crank it up when appropriate; way up, in fact.  And IMO it is durning the grandest fortissimos that this version fares the best, because this group can do it with such flair and control.  Solti obviously realizes it, and he patiently waits to invoke this special effect, while working some other inter-sectional effects that the orchestra also handles with aplumb.

I love the first movement of this symphony, and I like the 2nd half of the Addagio and Scherzo, and the Finale.  It's not that I dislike this version of this symphony.  I just can't help but believe it could be presented in a more coherent fashion, musically, even by a less-powerful orchestra.

London actually delivers on their "ffrr" wide frequency response claims; yet they must still ride the gain knobs.  Although they are a lot more subtle about it than others, I can say that hearing the 1966 CSO live was a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

BTW: This was a "sessions" recording.

Paul S



02-21-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 31
Post ID: 9858
Reply to: 9855
I hate it!
fiogf49gjkf0d
I now, this play, I do nit remember details now but I true was not able to listen - it was so bad and off the mark…


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-22-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 32
Post ID: 9876
Reply to: 9858
The Picked-Over Banquet
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I own another Solti/CSO ffrr (CSA-2228, 1970), this one the Mahler 5.  I thought about the B7, and I put these two album boxes together and immediately got a mental picture of the aftermath of a great, complex banquet where the guests had come and gone, the great hall was empty, and the bounty of food was pretty much untouched.

This Mahler 5, like this B7, is another "perfect" studio recording that displays absolute mastery on the part of the musicians and absolute communication and control from Solti, all to the effect that both the symphonies, though well done,  wind up unfinished.

Best regards,
Paul S
06-19-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 10840
Reply to: 4765
First Annual East Coast Brucknerathon
fiogf49gjkf0d

The First Annual
East Coast Brucknerathon!

Friday & Saturday, September 4 & 5
 
Hosted by John Berky &  Ken Jacobson at Ken's home in Simsbury, Connecticut
Tentative Schedule
 
Friday, September 4 (Windsor Locks, near Bradley Airport):
Cocktails and Dinner at a local restaurant (walking distance from airport hotels)
 
 
Saturday, September 5 (Simsbury):
 
8:00AM: Symphony in F Minor
Dong-Ho Lee / Jeju Philharmonic (Korea) (Orch. CD) (2008)
 
 
9:00AM: Symphony No. 1 (1866 Linz / Ed. Carragan)
Georg Tintner / Scottish National Orchestra (Naxos CD)
 
10:00AM: Symphony in D Minor
Gennadi Rozhdestvensky / USSR Ministry of Culture Orchestra (BMG CD) (1983)
 
11:00AM: Symphony No. 2 (1872 Edition / Ed. Carragan)
Herbert Blomstedt / Montreal Symphony Orchestra (2007)
 
12:15PM: Symphony No. 3 (1874 version / Ed. Carragan)
*** By special permission from Delta Records ***
Akira Naito / Tokyo New City Orchestra
 
1:30PM: Symphony No. 4 (Korstvedt Ed.) 
Stephane Deneve / Scottish National Orchestra (Edinburgh, 2006)
 
2:45PM: Symphony # 5
Eduard van Beinum  / Concertgebouw Orchestra (1959)
 
4:25PM: Symphony No. 6 (Hynais Edition)
Ira Levin / Norrlands Opera Orchestra (Lindoro CD)
 
5:35PM: Dinner Break
 
6:00PM: Symphony No. 7 (DVD)
Eugen Jochum / Concertgebouw Orchestra (1986 - Tokyo) (Altus DVD)
 
7:15PM: Symphony No. 8 (DVD)
Takashi Asahina / Osaka Philharmonic (2001) (Exton DVD)
 
 9:45PM: Symphony No. 9
Mvts 1-3: Fabio Luisi / Dresden Staatskapelle  (Sony CD)
Mvt. 4 (Carragan Completion): Akira Naito / Tokyo New City Orchestra (Delta CD)
 
11PM: Conclusion
 
 
Our playlist will be guided to some degree by the distinguished guests who are planning to attend. They include Benjamin Korstvedt, William Carragan, Fanfare reviewer, Robert McColley and KUHF Station Manager, John Proffitt.
 
COST: $25.00 per person to cover cost of food and refreshments. Transportation to and from Simsbury will be provided unless you arrive late and/or leave early.
 
Bradley International Airport (BDL) is located just 10 minutes from my home.  Several nice, but economy hotels are located nearby on Route 75 (Ella Grasso Turnpike). They include the Fairfield Inn, La Quinta Inn, and the Doubletree Hotel. Friday dinner will be within walking distance of these hotels.
 
Questions can be addressed to: john@abruckner.com




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-07-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 34
Post ID: 11694
Reply to: 4765
It was a bit over two years ago…
fiogf49gjkf0d

My Grandma died. She was in her 90s…

The funeral was next morning. I learned about Grandma in the beginning of the day but a lot of little pathetic errands did not allow me to leave for Philadelphia right the way, not to mention that there was already no reasons to hurry… I got free from all my routine obligations at 11PM and decided to drive from Boston to Philadelphia over night. I left at 2AM and there were 340 miles ahead of me. I did not take any music with me in my car, I am truly would like to be alone, to think about Grandma…

It was a hot and damped New England summer, middle of the week and the roads were empty. I was driving a convertible with top down, it was night, it was dark and it was in a way free for anything superficial - the only wind was heard… I was thinking about my Grandma… I am not exactly what might be called family-oriented person, but the memories about my Grandma were the most colorful my feelings about relatives who are able to be unconditionally-devoted. I kind of remember from my childhood my Grandma more then I even remember my parents…

I was driving fast, much fasted then might be considered sane. The BMW 330Ci is a dead car performance-wise but when it run over 100 miles per hour than it cares road very nicely. If you were insane enough to drive a convertible Beemer with top down over 130 miles per hour then you know how wind sounds… I was looking for some loud sound that would make prevent hearing myself crying…  There were practically no cars on road and if I saw any I passed them with 40m/h gap. I was gloriously-alone on that Connecticut highway, only wind and the patches of fog….

Somewhere approaching NY I recognized that I need gas; I exited the Route 95 and was searching a gas station. While I was pumping the gas I went to the store to get something to drink. The first thing that I saw in the store was a large shallow cardboard box with mount of used, broken and very anti-hygienic CDs and a big sign “$1.99  each”. On the very top of it, right in my face there was a box with Bruckner 7 Symphony. When I was very little and my Grandma cooked cookies I was always asked her which cookie shell I take. “Take whatever cookie is looking at you…” my Grandma always told me…

I left the store with the Bruckner…

I had no idea who it was. The conductor was Franz Welser-Möst. I never hear about the guy but he conducted at this performance the Proms and the play was quite good. Still the Seventh was hardly audible as NY was closing, I drove 135m/h and the surface noise, wind as and the car noise were much louder then Bimmer’s stock radio might play (that car had sport package that comes with very low-profile but noise at some surfaces tires). I recognized the Seventh only by the fractions of notes, what was kind of enough for me….

It was 4.30AM, it was a dozen miles before the Hudson, it was insanely fast and insanely loud.  Here and there the clouds of fog cover the RT95… I was not suicidal. I did know the road very well, the car was handling very good, and there were practically no cars on the highway. I need to admit that self-destructiveness is a part of my personality but the very cognitive self-destructiveness.  I was not suicidal but I was subconsciously testing the boundaries of Reality. The Reality as I knew it – with my Grandma living somewhere – was gone and the new World Order was coming:  I was “testing” how much I might go away in this New Word….

The few last miles before the George Washington Bridge were particularly “dramatic”. There were some road workers with caps here and there and I each second was expected that I will be arrested. The Route 95 right before the Bridge turned to be a semi-tunnel, the noise from the road and from the zillion puddles sounds like a cannonade. I floored the Bimmer pedal as I saw the ramp for the Bridge’s upper level.  The car jumped at the last puddle like an agonizing animal, the CD skipped and from wherever it was it defaulted to the first track. I broke to the George Washington Bridge’s upper level and suddenly the surround noise stopped. The highway surface was different, the reflections from the road are gone, I felt that it was almost a silence. The Bridge looks stunning: the upper side was covered with dirty fog with the Bridge’s lights trying to break through. The road was leading up and the end of the road was losing into the fog and darkness. The caring towers of the Bridge, the roads between them and the total darkness ahead were like the mouth and jaws of a mythical beast. I was 110m/h and the car was climbing up to the Bridge’s top.

Suddenly it happened. The opening cellos of the Bruckner Seventh got loud enough and then what the whole orchestra kicked in heard that roaring harmony of fate and destiny with witch Bruckner opens his symphony. The Seventh, the mythical jaws of the Bridge behind which use to “be” my Grandma were functioning as a  great counterpoints acting very harmoniously and very sensually .  The new life, the life with Grandma, was beginning and I understood that I will be a different in the New Jersey…. 

Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-07-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 35
Post ID: 12639
Reply to: 4765
There is a new 7th out there....
fiogf49gjkf0d
Carlo Maria Giulini and Berliner Philharmoniker from 1985.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Testament/SBT1437

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-21-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 36
Post ID: 13197
Reply to: 12639
Solti/VPO, 1966
fiogf49gjkf0d

London ffrr, CSA2216,; stereo LP

I have always found the first movement of this symphony to be the most musically satisfying part of it, and nothing in the cited performance has changed this old bias.  I have to give Solti credit here, however, for enough insight and patience to almost pull this thing together for me.

But let's face it, this symphony does not get really "pulled off" very often, for all the obvious reasons.  It is "Big", it's "Complex", and it's barely coherent for long stretches at a time.  Yet everyone concerned has to get it and render his own part well as part of the whole getting it well to really get it right.  It's got to be frustrating for a musician, to try his best and feel he's "done well" only to hear the playback and wonder where the hell that noise came from, that he'd been thinking all along was a symphony.  And I imagine that this happens more often with Bruckner's 7th than it does with, say, Beethoven's 3rd, or Dvorak's 9th.  Although I tend to be tougher on conductors, I would suppose that they are probably at least as likely to wind up wondering what just happened.

This vintage of the Vienna Philharmonic can play pretty much anything, and they can do it pretty much like any conductor would want.  In this performance, Solti needs only a light rein on the very attentive VPO, and he does not torture them.  He is very patient, but I don't sense he's testing the musicians; rather he is giving the very discursive 2nd, 3rd and most of the 4th movements time to "develop".  He does this as well as any version I remember, given the limits of his reading, and it does serve the symphony, well enough.

In audio terms, this recording is one of the better London ffrrs I own.

Paul S

03-23-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 37
Post ID: 13220
Reply to: 13197
Volkmar Andrae
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I'm (re)discovering this cycle, the only one performed by an Austrian orchestra. The Seventh is grand!

clark
06-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
dady
Posts 4
Joined on 07-28-2005

Post #: 38
Post ID: 13748
Reply to: 5444
Did you listen the Celibidache's Bruckner 8th?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I seriously recommend sir...
Best Regards
Esteban Bikic (Spain)
06-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 39
Post ID: 13749
Reply to: 13748
Celibidache with whom?
fiogf49gjkf0d
If I am not mistaken he records it with a few orchestras. I have Danish Radio, Munich and Stuttgart. In fact I think I have a box set with symphonies with Stuttgart. Which one you refer to?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 40
Post ID: 13750
Reply to: 12639
Bruckner 7 from Minnesota
fiogf49gjkf0d

Minnesota orchestra under button of Osmo Vanska played Bruckner 7 and the performance is available to download for free at:

http://www.minnesotaorchestra.org/musicondemand/

It is unfortunately in 256kbps, but it is what it is. The play itself is a bit not in my taste - they play Bruckner too dancey, but it is what it is as well….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-15-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
dady
Posts 4
Joined on 07-28-2005

Post #: 41
Post ID: 13756
Reply to: 13749
Yes, you right...
fiogf49gjkf0d
He stop of make recordings from the 1950 because he considered that the quality of them was insufficient for the music. He restarted of make them later. The version i have is the munich one of EMI but the other is from DG and is a little bit wrong. The tempo of this director was lentisimos but very detailed and with emphasis. I will get the danish version but probably its before 1950.
Best Regards
Esteban
08-05-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 42
Post ID: 14186
Reply to: 10840
12th annual Bruckner Marathon, California
fiogf49gjkf0d

Join us on Saturday, September 4, 2010, to celebrate Bruckner's 186th birthday in Carlsbad, California.  This year marks our 12th annual Bruckner Marathon and we'd like to share some good music with Bruckner lovers.

As in previous years, we'll play the numbered symphonies (incl. the "Nullte") and two shorter works in an informal setting, with intermissions between works and plenty of food and drinks to keep us going.

As in previous years,  we offer a combination of noteworthy live and studio recordings.  Special features include a DVD of Sawallisch's performance of the Second symphony, a live Van Beinum performance of the Fourth, a nice remastering of Furtwängler's incandescent wartime performance of the Fifth by Opus Kura, a live performance of the Sixth with the Gustav Mahler Youth Orchestra under Ingo Metzmacher, a wonderful remastering of Matacic's classic Seventh with the Czech Philharmonic and a live Ninth with the VPO from the orchestra's tour last year under Mehta.

As before, a pamphlet with notes on each recording will be provided to attendees. In addition, we will continue the tradition of the annual Bruckner Quiz, whose winner will be the proud owner of a surprise gift.

Here's the playlist in the sequence we will play it:

- Overture in G minor: Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken Radio Symphony Orchestra (Oehms Classics, 2001)
- Symphony No. 0: Inbal/Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra (Teldec, 1990)
- Symphony No. 1: Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra (Decca, 1995)
- Symphony No. 2: Sawallisch/Bavarian State Orchestra (live, Private Label DVD, 1985)
- Symphony No. 3: Young/Hamburg Philharmonic (live, Oehms Classics, 2006)
- Symphony No. 4: Van Beinum/Concertgebouw Orchestra (live, Private Label CD, 1950s)
- Symphony No. 5: Furtwängler/Berlin Philharmonic (live, Opus Kura CD, 1942)
- Adagio from String Quintet: Blomstedt/Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra (Decca, 1997)
- Symphony No. 6: Metzmacher/Gustav Mahler Youth Orchestra (live, Ludwigsburg, Private Label CD, 2005)
- Symphony No. 7: Matacic/Czech Philharmonic (Supraphon, 1967, Japanese XRCD)
- Symphony No. 8: Asahina/Tokyo Metropolitan Symphony Orchestra (live, Fontec, 1998)
- Symphony No. 9: Mehta/Vienna Philharmonic (live Musikverein, Private Label CD, Feb. 2009)

When: Saturday, September 4th, 2010
Where: 3267 Madison Street, Carls
bad, California, 92008
Starting time: 9 AM

Please feel free to bring your favorite food and drinks (especially Bruckner's favorite beverage) to share.  Contributions will be taken towards lunch and/or dinner.  For directions and more information, contact Ramón Khalona at RKhalona@hotmail.com or Dave Griegel at DavidGriege@FairIsaac.com.

We look forward to seeing you.
Ramon Khalona and Dave Griegel
 



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-05-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 43
Post ID: 14187
Reply to: 14186
All the News That's Fit to Print
fiogf49gjkf0d
OK, I no longer keep my finger on the Arts Pulse here in (greater) San Diego; but the Bruckner thing has got to be worth a traffic jamb or two, even if it sounds pretty "quaint", at best.

And how odd that I am advised of the event by an e-note from Boston.  FYI, this has not created so much as a blip on local "cultural radar"; I've seen/heard nothing from NPR, local "classical" radio or the main SD rag, so far.

So, thanks for the tip, Romy.  I'll keep my eyes peeled for greater Boston events...

Best regards,
Paul S
12-15-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 44
Post ID: 15200
Reply to: 4765
Another great pre-war Bruckner 7
fiogf49gjkf0d

Somebody posted at Symphonyshare a great recording that I been enjoying for 2 days. It is Eugen Jochum leads Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra. Among all the Bruckner 7 that Jochum recorded I think this is the earliest I hears and it is very very good, probably with exception of the third movement. The first two movements are beyond reproach. It was recorded by Telefunken in May of 1939

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VB310AKE

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
zako
Posts 85
Joined on 05-25-2008

Post #: 45
Post ID: 15204
Reply to: 6220
Bruckner
fiogf49gjkf0d
After listening to Bruckner many many times,,  And professionally recording his compositions,, I am compelled to make this auwfull statement,,, I feel that he is a second rate composer,,,He,s done a large body of work,,But his overall statement,,,TO ME is repitisially boering,,,  I sat there looking at his score " the V11" (while recording) and thought he missed a good oppertunity,here, to rephrese and pull this symphony around and make it great,,,But he slips into his bad habbit of repitionally sliding back into the Bruckterian muck,,, I,m not trying to offend Bruckner followers here,,But just expressing my feelings,,,I wiil go down stairs and again audition The Sym,V11 today,,as a pennence. 
12-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 46
Post ID: 15205
Reply to: 15204
“Us” and the external rating of our stimuli.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 zako wrote:
After listening to Bruckner many many times,,  And professionally recording his compositions,, I am compelled to make this auwfull statement,,, I feel that he is a second rate composer,,,He,s done a large body of work,,But his overall statement,,,TO ME is repitisially boering,,,  I sat there looking at his score " the V11" (while recording) and thought he missed a good oppertunity,here, to rephrese and pull this symphony around and make it great,,,But he slips into his bad habbit of repitionally sliding back into the Bruckterian muck,,, I,m not trying to offend Bruckner followers here,,But just expressing my feelings,,,I wiil go down stairs and again audition The Sym,V11 today,,as a pennence. 
Trust me: the Bruckner followers would not be offended.  Why to be offended and why to consider the statement auwfull?

Yes, in way I agree that Bruckner is a “second rate composer”.  The common thinking in here is that Bruckner did not compose his 14 symphonies but composed one symphonies 14 times. The similarity of expressionism of cause is there. Still, I do not approach to stratification of my expressionism base ups the irrelevant rating. What does it mean the “second rate composer”, I mean we understand what it means but what benefit this knowledge has to us, to me to you? I can give you a long list of 8th rate composers that did something that I consider was brilliant and love endlessly. I can look at some music of the “first rate composers” – I would put Mahler in there for instance – that might not touch me as much as some other music might.

When I was young I was in love with a girl next door and I was running to date with her on n bicycle, I was inspired. Then, years later, I was dating women to whom I was driving the expensive BMW but I did not experience even a fraction of that enthusiasm. Does it mean that bicycle is better transportation then BMW?

I am sure that you know the answer. The answers are within us. The rating of composers according to their composing, expressive and orchestration power is a fascinating thing to do but it hardly makes any dent on my listening preferences. Bruckner IS the second rate composer but I truly can’t not get enough of him. Does it make me the second rate listener?  That is something that I absolutely do not care. One of the greatest accomplishments that I did in audio is my realization that the only person to whom I need to prove anything in audio (in audio?) is myself. The second rate? Who cares!

BTW, taking about great Brukner. Listening now the Volkmar Andreae’s Bruckner with Vienna Symphony Orchestra. To all Bruckner fans - here is a phenomenal Xmas gift:

http://nubespartem.blogspot.com/2010/12/bruckner-symphonies-1-9-te-deum-volkmar.html

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
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Posts 74
Joined on 10-14-2009

Post #: 47
Post ID: 15206
Reply to: 15204
Bruckner fantasy
fiogf49gjkf0d
 zako wrote:
After listening to Bruckner many many times,,  And professionally recording his compositions,, I am compelled to make this auwfull statement,,, I feel that he is a second rate composer,,,He,s done a large body of work,,But his overall statement,,,TO ME is repitisially boering,,,  I sat there looking at his score " the V11" (while recording) and thought he missed a good oppertunity,here, to rephrese and pull this symphony around and make it great,,,But he slips into his bad habbit of repitionally sliding back into the Bruckterian muck,,, I,m not trying to offend Bruckner followers here,,But just expressing my feelings,,,I wiil go down stairs and again audition The Sym,V11 today,,as a pennence. 



Zako you are absolutely right ... I even consider him worse than second hand composer.
Playing Bruckner I never can figure out which symphony I am hearing 1,2 ..7 (beside the symphony no 3, 8 lll)
He just went on making it a routine. you need to be in your good routine daily life while listening to it and you need some bottles of wine
and think about nothing.
anyhow I do not consider anyone like Brcukner as second hand listener.
but I definitely consider it too painful repeating some of his works , it is like being in audio hell introduced by Bruckner himself.

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12-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 48
Post ID: 15207
Reply to: 15206
Why people don't like Bruckner
fiogf49gjkf0d
I think this relates to the diminishing popularity of baseball. Yes. Baseball is "America's National Pastime"... and called that for good reason. The operative word is "pastime". Baseball properly speaking is not a sport (nor is cricket for that matter) -- sport being that where action happens -- but rather a way for people to spend fine time together in a leisurely manner. Dreadfully old-fashioned, old chap!

Modern life demands speed and variety and short segments. None of that, in Bruckner. Granted you can find those aspects in many great composers, but few besides Bruckner dare to forego almost entirely the crowd-pleasing calisthenics.

Go, Anton!

clark
12-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 49
Post ID: 15208
Reply to: 15205
Bicycles vs. BMWs
fiogf49gjkf0d
Great story... and analogy.

Happy to see you have found Hr. Andreae. His Bruckner set is as good as it will ever get (as a set by one conductor) and moreover represents an inheritance of decades of original Bruckner performance, although it was made late in the conductor's life (early Fifties). Not only that, but several of the symphonies are the first recorded performances by a Viennese orchestra.

Next I recommend Georg-Ludwig Jochum, whose Bruckner was pretty much superior to that of his brother Eugen -- although I've never stacked up an Andreae vs. G-L. Jochum comparison. I do know that one time when I was confined to bed and had just acquired the G-LJ box I listened to his Fifth three times in a row,

clark
12-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JANDL100


Forest of Dean, UK
Posts 71
Joined on 09-27-2007

Post #: 50
Post ID: 15210
Reply to: 15208
The Sesame Street generation?
fiogf49gjkf0d

Two minutes for a self-contained sketch ... then onto the next hit!  And then the next ... and the next .... Whoa! - exciting stuff.
But Bruckner isn't like that - he is in it for the long haul, for the gradual deep development.  The spaciousness and spirituality of the vaulted cathedral rather than the snappy excitement of the discotheque.

Yes, as you may have guessed by now, I am a Bruckner fan.  Perhaps my favorite composer?  Certainly and without any doubt indespensible to my happiness in life.




Jerry
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