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   Home » Didital Things » A CD player of today… 20 years after TL0 (33 posts, 2 pages)
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  »  New  Myth of CD clocking = True/False..  Clock cables...  Didital Things  Forum     15  143295  02-24-2006
  »  New  CEC TL0 3.0 trasport..  CEC TL0 3.0 vs Audio Note CDT Six...  Didital Things  Forum     2  26026  07-07-2014
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Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 26
Post ID: 25460
Reply to: 25459
Still in progress...
John, I am not sure that I can talk in generalities on the subject as for a quite few years I stopped to monitor the market as attentively as I did years back. It is very possible that something new come to existence last 10 years. Also, there a huge array of new options to rip CDs and play files from different streamers, some people claim that it is the way to go. My limited experience with ripping and streaming CDs demonstrated to me that TL0 beats anything I was trying to stream and I found that the people who supported ripping were uninformed. But it was my own experience from past and I am not sure if the conclusion still holds ground today. I still use TL0 with Bidat, that I found to be a unique combination. The massive, overwhelmingly massive details of TL0’s output in my view are very well compensated by lower Mid bloating character of Bidat. I find that TL0 ability to accent the rhythmical inflictions are so stanning that only this characteristic made me in past discard any other CD solution contestants. The TL0 also has the best lower bass of anything I have tried, even though the Bidat does not. 
 
So, as my TL0 dies it was quite a tragedy to me. I did fine a laser at eBay; they are quite available and they cost $40. I have my local technician to put the new laser in and it has… no impact. Bummer! Ten my technician asked me why I made him to replace the laser, I told him that because it is what get worn. He retook the unit and measured everything and informed me that I was wrong and the problem with my unit was not laser but the spindle motor. That thing was had to get and we got not the right replacement but something that he was able to fit in there. This fixed the problem. The unit still have some occasional random “loosing” but generally it is operational. If I do find the right spindle motor, I will replace the one that it being used now.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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tokyo john
Narashino, Japan
Posts 36
Joined on 01-31-2006
Post #: 27
Post ID: 25461
Reply to: 25460
TL0 forever then
Romy, thank you for the very useful info. You have given me hope! When I contacted CEC in Japan a year or two ago asking to let me buy replacement lasers (as many as I could) they said no (they did say they will repair the unit if it ever fails - if you need me to help you get that spindle motor replacement please let me know if I can help - I can call them and I have contacts in Japan plus I go there twice a year). My local audio repairman (who is authorized service center for many famous non-US high end brands but not CEC) told me he has customers who are selling their TL0s before they break down. Finally, people in the Japanese hifi industry told me audio equipment that need IC chips and lasers all going to be un-repairable, which was shocking but also funny that it seems that all the CD promises were false and simple vinyl was the most robust long term medium to enjoy music. I think with potential changes in software/hardware even ripped music and files may  become obsolete one day? So your story of how you brought your TL0 back really made my day - at least while our ears last we can enjoy CDs played on the CEC. I agree with you the TL0 is stunning - my day to day system is basically a table top radio, but every once in a while when I play the TL0 through big amps and speakers it is like as if I went from a kitchen faucet to a fire hydrant hose! 
PS - the ebay replacement lasers are not originals but it seems it had no impact on the sound for you, which is really good news
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steverino
Posts 367
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 28
Post ID: 25462
Reply to: 25461
Disappearing digital players

I agree with Romy that unfortunately playing files from the computer (regardless of how they were produced) is sonically worse than playing disks through high quality players' transports. I have no idea why that is the case and it seems counterintuitive. But it is not just me.

Finally, people in the Japanese hifi industry told me audio equipment that need IC chips and lasers all going to be un-repairable,

This has been going on under the radar so to speak. Audiophiles incorrectly generalize from TTs to CD players. A TT (without tonearm) can be built at home with only a few tools and a commercial motor. Lasers and IC require expensive and complex manufacturing. Even in the heyday of CD players, audiophile companies were not manufacturing their own custom lasers and ICs but fiddling with analog outputs, power supplies and vibration control. It was only the recent collapse of Oppo that has woken up some audiophiles (not that I think Oppo was much good sonically but many did).
06-09-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 29
Post ID: 25463
Reply to: 25461
So far I am still with TL0
John, my technician, his name is Dariusz, tested the original laser and the aftermarket that we got from eBay and he insisted that there is no difference and there was no need to change it at all, at least in my case. You can contact him and ask more about it. His site is qaudio.com, his contact information is at the bottom of his page. Honestly as my TL0 got bracken I was very upset as it would means to embark to a journey to find another good CD transport. It looks like nowadays they do not care about 16-bit transports anymore and I feel that if I need to do it again it will be painful and pricy search.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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tokyo john
Narashino, Japan
Posts 36
Joined on 01-31-2006
Post #: 30
Post ID: 25464
Reply to: 25462
The vulnerable TTs
Based on what the engineers tell me, the direct drive TTs and the belt-driven ones with very fancy motors (controlled by an IC chip) are guaranteed to become useless. I hope those 100k turntables (like Techdas) have been designed for eternal repairability given their cost Smile
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tokyo john
Narashino, Japan
Posts 36
Joined on 01-31-2006
Post #: 31
Post ID: 25465
Reply to: 25463
Things do not always get better with time (at least with audio)

Thank you for the kind intro to your technician.  Yes, replacing the TL-0 will probably be a heartbreaking exercise. Just like there are people who own a few vintage Jaguars to cannibalize parts from one to the other, it is crazy that we are forced to consider doing the same for CD transports. Another bad alternative is to record the TL-O playing music onto open reel; talk about back to the future Smile
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steverino
Posts 367
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 32
Post ID: 25466
Reply to: 25464
Outboard TT drives
As long as the belt TT motor can be driven externally after IC failure then it shouldn't be a catastrophe. The direct drives are more problematic and I am not sure the effectiveness of workarounds. Nevertheless old DD TTs do seem available on the used market from time to time so maybe something can be done with them short of a TI factory getting involved.  Do most buyers of really expensive TTs hold on to them for 20 years? That's an honest question but it seems to me the answer is no as they seem to gravitate to the next super TT. Maybe someone here knows.
06-09-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 367
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 33
Post ID: 25467
Reply to: 25463
That would be good news
 Romy the Cat wrote:
John, my technician, his name is Dariusz, tested the original laser and the aftermarket that we got from eBay and he insisted that there is no difference and there was no need to change it at all, at least in my case. You can contact him and ask more about it. His site is qaudio.com, his contact information is at the bottom of his page. Honestly as my TL0 got bracken I was very upset as it would means to embark to a journey to find another good CD transport. It looks like nowadays they do not care about 16-bit transports anymore and I feel that if I need to do it again it will be painful and pricy search.

That sounds encouraging if your inexpensive 3rd party laser replacement (from Ebay) tested the same as the original laser or close enough. I have been wondering about that for my Marantz Bluray player as the laser is no longer obtainable from Marantz itself.
Page 2 of 2 (33 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Myth of CD clocking = True/False..  Clock cables...  Didital Things  Forum     15  143295  02-24-2006
  »  New  CEC TL0 3.0 trasport..  CEC TL0 3.0 vs Audio Note CDT Six...  Didital Things  Forum     2  26026  07-07-2014
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