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02-08-2016

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xandcg

Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #:	1526
Post ID:	22473
Reply to:	22445

Battery.

For people who are waiting for Tesla PowerWall, an alternative: http://sonnen-batterie.com

Think for yourself, do not be sheep.

04-07-2016

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scooter
Posts 161
Joined on 07-17-2008

Post #:	1527
Post ID:	22596
Reply to:	22473

Audio power regenerator company looking for engineer in Japan

I saw Kojo Technology is looking for an engineer relating to audio power regeneration:

http://kojo-seiko.co.jp/recruit.html

Run the posting through google translate if you are interest in job and don't understand Japanese. I own some Kojo stuff but don't have any connection to the company...

06-10-2016

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	1528
Post ID:	22651
Reply to:	2931

Stromtank - a German PP.

Another, this time German product that reportedly designed for audio use:

http://stromtank.com/

It looks like under 1KW unit, class D regenerator.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

06-11-2016

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xandcg

Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #:	1529
Post ID:	22653
Reply to:	22651

Stromtank: production pictures.

Here are some pictures of the Stromtank production:

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/06/stromtank-production.html

And here says the creator is the founder of MBL:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/HIGH_END_2016/Stromtank/

Think for yourself, do not be sheep.

07-14-2016

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JOHNR
Posts 24
Joined on 10-12-2015

Post #:	1530
Post ID:	22678
Reply to:	22443

Follow up on the core issues on tube SMPS

I did not follow up on the issues relating to improved performance on small smps when used on filament and DAC power supplies.

Here goes:

The first is that the source impedance of this type of supply is very small e.g. less than one ohm. The speed of the output is 500 kilohertz and the energy storage is held in a very small inductor.Because this technology creates noise spikes between five and twelve megahertz, the output requires a number of common mode chokes. Capacitors do not help because of their self inductance. My circuit uses three cm chokes to absorb this noise and they serve a dual purpose in that these also keep other sources of radio frequency noise out of the load.

Surprisingly, the removal of such noise from a tube filament gives a very large reduction in background noise and gives the impression that the tube is sonically much quieter and faster.

Technically, common mode noise has no real power since it is only a pulse however, it becomes mixed with wanted signals and disrupts the sonics. The only way to control it is with a ferrite based inductor arranged in series with both legs of the power feed pathway.
The absolute perfect power system would use one choke per power supply to each active device but except for small circuits, this is not practical.

When we come back to the importance of the 500 kHz operating frequency, small polymer capacitors are used to control the residual noise so that we can obtain an almost perfect d.c. supply. These have very limited ESR and ESL which is quite important.

Whilst developing this circuit, I found that any common mode noise fed to a filament will appear on the tube output amplified by a factor of 1 (tube physics). By using a single supply on the small signal tubes, sonic improvements can be obtained.
This also applies to the 45, 2A3 and 300B power tubes as well.

In the case of a dac using either one supply (ESS series) or dual supplies (1702 series), the sonics show a very large improvement. Background noise is no longer an issue giving much improved silence between notes.
Hope this helps.

WRT smps based B+ supplies, the same rules apply but the circuit is more complicated so I will deal wth that some time in the near future.

In the past, when discussing the use of common mode chokes, it has been stated that one choke kills the bass. I counted the chokes in my personal system and it comes to 54. I guess it has something to do with how they are used.

JohnR

08-16-2016

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	1531
Post ID:	22711
Reply to:	2931

How they do it....

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/power-trip-japanese-audiophiles-go-to-extremes-to-get-pure-energy-2016-08-14

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

08-16-2016

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xandcg

Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #:	1532
Post ID:	22712
Reply to:	22711

May be possible in US too.

I know in US business like recording studios can have exclusive transformers installed by the electricity company, but do not know if it is possible on residential buildings. It still do not warrant you will not have problems from noises coming from neighborhood, but the good is any problems will be sorted out by the electricity company.

I heard about a studio in US whom was a exclusive transformer and still got noise from outside, but that seems to be sorted out by the electricity company using three telemetry trucks. IIRC, and the story was true, the noise come when they use a printer on the next building.

Although, it will not be cheap to have, and certainly they will charge extra money monthly.

Think for yourself, do not be sheep.

08-21-2016

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1533
Post ID:	22732
Reply to:	22230

Reinventing the line

Sorry for posting a bit of kindergarten trivialities but maybe someone without a dedicated line yet will find it motivating.
I've finally connected my dedicated lines which took me ages. The lines are connected right behind the power meter
and have their separate safety breakers. All the grounds are star connected in the distribution box and then with is
a single 16mm2 starnded wire to the houshold ground of my apartment (again right at the power meter). I'm in an apprtment block
so no chance for a dedicated ground.
I also have a 6mm2 solid core available for grounding which will be tested.
My EAR834RtC is connected to one line,
Stax amp to another and TT motor to the ordinary household socket.

The sound impressions
are probably best described by the Romy's picture in the very first post which has started this thread.
In particular: the sound became generally less ear f*cking, most of the artificial edges and hallos are gone, more liquid,
musical lines are much easier followed; headstage is wider and deeper, better separation both stereo and of sounds, e.g. vinyl surface noise does not amalgamate with some passages of music into an unpleasant mixture; better macro dynamics, the feeling is that the system plays louder
string musicians finally sound like they play music and not try to saw their instruments in halves.
Very addictive change actually. LP's pass one after the other Smile

Cheers,
N-set

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

08-22-2016

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	1534
Post ID:	22733
Reply to:	22732

25%-30%

Yep, this is a common reaction. If everything works fine then you have to “lose” your tweeter. Many people with better electricity complain that they have no HF extension anymore not understanding that what they had was not HF extension but HF nose. Well, wait what you put properly working PurePower generator on your dedicated line... My estimation that a dedicated line gives 25-30% of benefits that comes from good electricity.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

08-22-2016

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1535
Post ID:	22734
Reply to:	22733

There is no HF in nature

Romy the Cat wrote:
Well, wait what you put properly working PurePower generator on your dedicated line... My estimation that a dedicated line gives 25-30% of benefits that comes from good electricity.

This is very encouraging as the effect so far has not been marginal by no means and I totally agree that "there is no HF in nature". In my circumstances HF has been prob the weakest point of the chain (I'm blaming the ss amp) giving me unpleasant artefacts which I call halos (similar to moon halos). While other big improvement - vibration control - has given a better articulation (like if somebody stopped lisping) it obviously could not solve the halos. The line has. Also the presentation of small details is better, not that I hear more details, but they are more reasonably presented, not creating some chimeric amalgamants with surface noise and/or the rest of the musical material.

Cheers,
N-set

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

08-22-2016

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	1536
Post ID:	22735
Reply to:	22734

It is tweeter time.

Well, I do not agree that “there is no HF in nature. The subject of HF in audio is complicated in in many instates when I see a playback installation that is flat to 20dB I feel that this installation was rather a mechanism to malice people. If you sit in symphony hall in your 10-15 row then you have good -20dB at 15kHz but you do not hear complain about HF, even if you factor in the ears non-linearity curves…. Anyhow, if you feel that you get rid some of your HF noise then you can start to work on your tweeter.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

08-22-2016

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1537
Post ID:	22738
Reply to:	22735

No tweeter

Romy the Cat wrote:
Well, I do not agree that “there is no HF in nature. The subject of HF in audio is complicated in in many instates when I see a playback installation that is flat to 20dB I feel that this installation was rather a mechanism to malice people. If you sit in symphony hall in your 10-15 row then you have good -20dB at 15kHz but you do not hear complain about HF, even if you factor in the ears non-linearity curves…. Anyhow, if you feel that you get rid some of your HF noise then you can start to work on your tweeter.

That's more or less what I meant - we dont have natural sources of 15kHz (save for bats and dolphins) other than in the attack/decay and related sound characteristics. All that high-kHz ability of a system is needed not to mimic bats or dolphins but to properly reproduce some of the natural sound characteristics: space/air, microlocalization, attack/decay, etc.

I listen on electrostatic headphones so no tweeter to work on.

Cheers,
N-set

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

08-22-2016

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	1538
Post ID:	22740
Reply to:	22738

This is exactly what I disagree.

We do have natural sources well over 15kHz and it has nothing to do with bats and dolphins. I do feel that for sound reproduction we need an upper limit to be reproducible up to let say ~100 kHz. They should be not at 0dB of cause but well into the depth of … noise. A proper 20Kz shall be somewhere at – 10dB, and 100Khz will be way below. Anyhow, what we talk about HF calibration then it is very shadow territory as there is nothing that is properly calibrated in there. The microphones, the amp, line-level electronics and etc. are very distorted and non-linear at 20kZ, so what we “measure” in there only God knows.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

08-22-2016

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1539
Post ID:	22741
Reply to:	22740

100kHz yes please

I should perhaps give it more thought as I thought that instruments do not go higher than some 5-6kHz in their vibrational modes.
Here are for example beautifull laser holography pictures and spectra of vibrating cymbals Smile

http://www.lutins.co.uk/cymbals.html

What I definitely agree on is 100kHz capability, but probably for different reasons.
Cheers,
N-set

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

08-22-2016

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steverino
Posts 367
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #:	1540
Post ID:	22742
Reply to:	22741

Theory vs practice

In theory wideband electronics with very gentle HF slopes are optimal. In practice I have never liked them. For the same reason I detest the 6922 tube vs the 12A series tubes or most less well known. As Romy notes, linearity and measurements in this area are difficult and I also feel this super HF region is more susceptible to line and radiated noise. The ribbon tweeter or electrostats are able to fake a natural treble air unlike anything else I've heard. It is a coloration but a pleasant one. But audio systems are just going to sound more closed in than real life. The question is how much that bothers you and what steps you feel necessary to mitigate but not eliminate it.

02-20-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1541
Post ID:	22989
Reply to:	20531

Power cords mania

Paul S wrote:
fiogf49gjkf0dWe do have a cable thread somewhere on this site that might be better for cable-specific posts. As far as purely electrical "issues", in the end, better sound is still the main consideration. Shielding power lines is not only very difficult to do, in practical terms, but it is not in any case a perfect solution, since any reduction in noise by shielding comes at the cost of reduced quality of "remaining" sound in the end. God only knows why this is so. My own experiments show that crossing (braiding) power cable wires also introduces sonic "issues" even as it serves as an imperfect RFI/EMI "shield", probably by reducing inductance. I presently use braided 12 gauge magnet wires for power cords to my amps, where each of 3 wires is sleeved with soft polyethylene tubing, and the ground wire "floats" only on the component end, serving as a "drain" to ground for parasitic noise. These power cords "work" better in aggregate terms than other expensive cords I have tried, but they don't address surges or other on-line noise issues at all. Sadly, the "high quality" surge guards I've tried have been bad for sound, so I just take my chances. I have to confess that where I live, lightening is rare; but there is a LOT of noise "in the air" and on the power lines, which are, after all, perfect "antennas".

Back to lightening, it takes many forms, another study, in itself.

Paul S

At a risk of being stoned to death for bringing power cords here: Paul, what power cords have you tried and with what results?
I never thought I'd ever come to that topic in my life, but since every cleaning on the power line side did bring
a positive audible effect, I started to think if perhaps more advanced power cords can make a dfference too.
Now, opening Pandora's box must have been a child's play compared to opening the subject of "audiophile power cords",
so I'm looking for some reasonable suggestions of what to try. I looked at the Audioquest and PS Audio entry level
products (NRG-2 and AC3), as both companies seem to put at least some effort in what they do (e.g. cold welding, multiple conductor geomtries etc).
AQ seems to be unshielded, basing noise rejection solely on the geometry.
I could DIY like you but honestly have more serious things to do so would prefer some good, off-the shelf solution to try.

Cheers,
Jarek

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

02-20-2017

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	1542
Post ID:	22991
Reply to:	22989

Power cords my ass.

Power cords is the most ridicules subject that I have seen in audio and they define all rules, would it be stupid rules or sensible rules. There is absolutely no difference in power cords construction, built quality, price, material use, insolation, conductor type of purity or anything else for that matter. All of power cords sound different and I have seen from some minor incremental Sound improvement or worsening to VERY fundamental Sound change only after changing a power cord. It would be easy to describe power cord influence by type of PS, the type of filtration used, power entry used, grounding schema, type of transformer wounded but the really is a bit more complex. The very same power cords with very different components work very differently and in most of the cases not repitable. A one specific power cord could do marvelously with my preamp in a good electricity day but do very badly during other days. So, my rule is to have many different power cord and to try. When I trying to catch what cord would be the best I do not go for “best sound” but rather for “steady sound”. What I discovered that the cord that do spectacular do not do well all time but rather cords that do just OK have a tendency to maintain this OK status for a long time and under any condition.

Now, do not even ask me to explain why power cords matter. I have absolutely no idea and with 3 kids under roof I am not planning to spend next 20 years of my life to discovering it. It is not necessary because “kids are better” but because with kid you know the result. With the damn power cords I very much assure you that even in 20 years no one will understand why they change sound so much very much as no one can truly understand how bad electricity impacts sound.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

02-20-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1543
Post ID:	22992
Reply to:	22991

Off The Shelf Power Cords

Jarek, please re-read my previous post, also Romy's recent post on this subject, carefully. I'm afraid you are in for it once you start effing with power cords, for all the reasons we've listed. Here in the US we have a company that sells used cords and cables "on approval", meaning you basically rent cords until you find some you like. I think there's a UK company that does something similar; not sure.

https://www.usedcable.com/

I am NOT endorsing these guys, just putting it out there, as an idea. My own "findings" and "conclusions" are just as I said previously, and I am still using the DIY cords I described, for the same reasons. I think of all the ready-made cords I tried, I still have a Sonic Horizons cord that is my only cord with ferrite rings on it. I use this on my CD transport. I did not mention it, but I also use pure Ohno copper plug ends, for whatever the hell that's worth. Good luck finding these on any ready made cords at any price. Believe me, I would never have made my own power cords if I had been able to find acceptable ready-mades! Probably no need to tell you, do not get too excited when you find something you "like", since it takes time to be sure any "benefits" hold with the changes (apparently) brought by varying electricity and various loads. I presently think this might be a case where you could make and try one of "my" cords and hear how that works for you over time, then go from there. I have to say, I'm not sure you can "save time" by "comparing" ready made cords. In a perfect world, you either won't hear significant differences, or you will soon find what you think are great cords.

Best regards,
Paul S

02-20-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1544
Post ID:	22993
Reply to:	22991

Hope one can always hope...

Romy the Cat wrote:
When I trying to catch what cord would be the best I do not go for “best sound” but rather for “steady sound”. What I discovered that the cord that do spectacular do not do well all time but rather cords that do just OK have a tendency to maintain this OK status for a long time and under any condition.

This sounds like a very sane methodology, thank you for sharing it Romy!
As far as I could understand from the vast writings on the subject,
cords also seem to need a very long burn in of 200h+.

Paul, would that be possible for you to uppload a picture of your braid?

Thank you,
jarek

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

02-20-2017

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clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #:	1545
Post ID:	22994
Reply to:	22993

Romy and Paul are both entirely correct

Must add that there is also a "break-in" phenomenon with power cords, as there is with other cables, further contributing to the confusion.

Borrowing pre-owned cables from some place may be a good idea, but one doesn't know how long they've been used.

Finally, Romy wrote that it would take twenty years to figure this all out. I think it might take even longer to create a taxonomy of power systems and cords because, where's the money in it?

02-20-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1546
Post ID:	22995
Reply to:	22994

A Photo of "My" DIY Power Cord, FWIW

OK, Let's see if I can still do this:

02-20-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1547
Post ID:	22996
Reply to:	22995

Got it!

Thank you Paul!
Very clever idea with the noise drain wire (I saw it also in of the Belden cables, 19634)
Unfortunately in my case I have to ground via the power cord
(no chance for a dedicated ground).
Tried to locate Ohno Cu plugs to no result, will pick sth else.
Cheers,
jarek

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

02-20-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1548
Post ID:	22997
Reply to:	22995

Your braid looks poor

I found some crazy braidings techniques, no idea what they are worth. I put it here
FYI: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6242689.pdf

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

02-20-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1549
Post ID:	22998
Reply to:	22997

Counting Wires

In my case, there are only three 12 gauge wires in each AC cord. I only connect a hot and a "neutral" (circuit ground) at both ends. The "safety ground" wire is "lifted" at the amp (or whatever; it runs short/is not connected to the component-end plug), but it does connect to the plug (and therefore the safety ground) at the outlet end, thence to the service ground. I use more complicated, Litz braids for my IC (6 wires) and speaker cables (9 wires). I do use annealed POCC magnet wire for IC and speaker cables. Again, I use a good quality, soft Cu magnet wire (not POCC) for the AC wire, and something like shown in the link for un-plated, POCC plugs.

https://www.vhaudio.com/connectors-ac.html

Again, the only way to know what "works" is to try it over time. If you find something that works for a given component, leave it there. As I mentioned somewhere, I use di-electric grease on the plug blades.

Best regards,
Paul S

02-21-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1550
Post ID:	22999
Reply to:	22998

Thank you

Those crazy braidings I posted were a bit of a joke Wink

I'm a bit uneasy with using bare copper (oxidation) so would rather go with plated (Ag to have less potential difference to nickel in my sockets). I used Deoxit throughout all my dedicated power lines.

Cheers,
Jarek

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

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