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04-11-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 126
Post ID: 7182
Reply to: 7179
"I'm jealous!" Don't be.
Anyway, where did I say "consistent"?

And that is "how they sell what they have." What's the problem with that?

clark
04-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 127
Post ID: 7293
Reply to: 7182
Hot (Damn)
Too hot to get hi-fi today, and I ran out of patience trying to to find the music.

I'm pissed off enough to just spew right now, so here goes:

Being in Southern California, my local power station happens to burn natural gas.

Think hydro-carbons, think money.

The last time I got great electricity was a day when high temperatures were predicted, but it wound up staying at normal temperatures.

I am saying that I am supposing that the power sations/switching/whatever "anticipate" our electrical "needs", and that if they are "doing their jobs", than we may never get decent electricity again.

Pissy and a half, right?

Well, that's what I think.

What was that about Shunyata, again?

Bell towers?

High-powered rifles?*

Paul S


* see Kurt Vonnegut (Hocus Pocus)
05-14-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 128
Post ID: 7395
Reply to: 2931
FM and electricity, sources and electricity

 Paul S wrote:
I wonder how many cities have good FM programming and broadcasting?  Los Angeles was great, back when I lived in Venice, with interesting stuff going on around the clock.  San Diego is quite limited, and I get Bupkis from my place up against the hills.  Well, that's not altogether true...  I do get crappy electricity...

 I do not know if it is “FM and electricity” or juts the septic of my tuners and electricity but I can testify that FM. for whatever reasons, is the very last that dies when electricity turns bad.

When electricity turns bad then here is the list of my devises that got affected, listed the worse affected first and the least affect the last. In all cases all equipment is driver without any power treatment and plugged in the row dedicated mains.

1)      Bidat D/A
2)      Lavry D/A
3)      DAW machine
4)      Placette Preamp
5)      None Melquiades amps
6)      Pacific D/A
7)      Phonostages
8)      Melquiades Powers Amps
9)      A/D converters
10)   Tuners
11)   Reel (buttery powered)

I found that the order of the list is very interning.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-29-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 129
Post ID: 7694
Reply to: 7395
Just when you think
I can't remember the electricity EVER being any better, since I first got my system "good enough" for bad electricity to fuck it up.

On the one hand, I am very encouraged by what I heard today, which was very enjoyable music pitched right where I'd hoped it would be, sounding clear and interesting as ... Music.  Great bass,; great dynamics; All Good.

Oh, if it would only stay like this...

OTOH, I have some ways to go and no known way to get there to get the Happy Sound when the electricity is Bad (as it usually is).

Bottom Line, for those keeping score:  Paul, perhaps 7; Electricity, about 1, 874, 639


Paul S
08-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 130
Post ID: 7963
Reply to: 7150
The freaking Power Strip!!!

What do you know: the APS PurePower regenerator is back. Since last December, when I returned the  PurePower unit #5 because it did not sound right and had some objective defects the APS were working on something and now the PurePower Version 6 is here. The preliminary results are favorable, those like any other this with this regenerator it is not without the issuers. I will share my observations about it in future.

What however is interesting that is that I came across a problem that I did not expected. For the way how I configure my system I need the PurePower unit to drive a Power Strip with 13-14 receptacles. I was looking a good power strip with any peripherals on it and I was not able to find any. I need a compact, black 15-20A strip with no filters, no fuses, no switches, good sockets that not wired but bridged, no surge protections, or no anything else. While I was looking I have seen all possible the Power Strip, even for a few thousands dollars but I did see what I needed. I never thought that a regular power strip might be a problem to find. I even thought it make my own power strip in a way I want it but this proposition sounds too ridicules to me. Come on, I might be so stupid that I would a couple hundred dollars for a no-nonsense power strip. Somebody, please, sell it to me…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
glaesemann
New York
Posts 22
Joined on 12-18-2007

Post #: 131
Post ID: 7965
Reply to: 7963
Naim Wiremold AC strip
I think it is Wiremold part number L10320. At least it used to be.

It has no filters, no switch contacts, indicator lights or passive protection devices and uses hospital grade outlets.


"I'd rather know than believe." - Carl Sagan
08-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 132
Post ID: 7967
Reply to: 7965
Where the juice comes from.

Yep, thanks.  I bought it yesterday as well I bought yesterday the new revision of PS Audio Juice Bar II.

 The Juice Bar II looks like a right devise but it need 2-3 of them.

http://www.psaudio.com/products/juicebariimoreinfo.asp

The Wiremold devise is OK but it is the same as Niam devise (I think Niam re-branded it) and I am a little afraid it. The Niam dealers advertised that the Niam’ power strip use have a “luxury” to moderate the sound of their equipment by changing the outlet on the Niam’s power strip. They claim that all outlets sound differently – I am sure it was a “benefit” for them but I recognize it as idiocy.

Anyhow, with a deficiency of anything better I will use the Juice Bar II and the Wiremold but I do not like both of them juts on specks. The Juice Bar II look more attractive but it is kind of too big to have 2-3 of them. Perhaps PS would do modules that would allow binding Juice Bars II together? It would be a good solution.

Rgs, The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 133
Post ID: 7971
Reply to: 7150
The power saga, another round

 Romy the Cat wrote:
I did not say how my saga with APS Pure Power regenerator finish but it never finished. Since the end of the last year the regenerators is sitting in my closet and I have sent the unit’s main board to APS people for the “revision” as I do not feel it was useable. I still feel that the direction that APS are trying to go hugely perspective and I wish they found how to do the Class D regenerators to be stable, and producing right sound.
It looks as the APS has revision of their board that might fix the problems that they had. I do not have a lot of hope but who knows they might did it accidently. The dilemma that I see is that the APS engineers do not work on the specific sonic problems that I pointed them out but they works against one list of improvements. It is valid list and they might do good job with this improvements but they are completely clueless about the sound of the units and the main purpose of this unit. The Chinese guys who as I understand are responsible for ingenerating aspects of the unit do not even acknowledge that problem with the unit. It is very frustrated as the only contact I have with APS is via the Canadian Director but he does not look like have enough pull (or desire) to address the problems with sound as long the unit is being sold well. So, that hope I have so far that the Chinese folks doing their planed modification might accidently to fix the problems that cause of the APS generator to have sonic aggravations.

I have the APS PurePower regenerator #6 for a couple days and today I dedicated the morning to found of what is does, and how it screw up or now my sound this time. If you just start to read this there just now then go a few pages back – I have a history of love hate with this regenerator and with its results. Anyhow here is the dairy of my later findings. Generally the result is positive BUT the solution itself still has more questions then answers…

The unit that returned to APS last December has a number of sonic “issues” (well coved in my comments) and one objectively bad problem that I feel was a fault of assembling and I feel that sonic problems were deriving from it. The regenerator #5 has a huge voltage linkage between neutral and ground. It is not a symmetrical devise but it had 67V between hot and ground and 53V between neutral and ground. It had very far off sound and what I got my current regenerator #6 the very first think I did was checking the propones of AC polarity and absents of voltaged super-linkage. This time the PurePower unit had 120 on Hot and 1.1V on Neutral . The  1.1V is slightly high, I would like to see 100mA-300mA but it is not an end of the worlds and considered that the problem with voltage linkage was resolved.

The unit also sound much softer and with much more polite “Super Structure” then the regenerator #5. In fact it was quite good out of box. (The unit is keep running for the last 3 days). From my past experience I knew well what the PurePower regenerator, so I quickly run over all my all familiar configuration confirming that the this unit #6 has no own “issuers”. The results are following: Bidat D/A,   Lavry D/A, Lavry A/D,  DAW machine,   Placette Preamp, CEC TL0 transport, Sansui TU-1X and REL tuner are very nice on APS power. The Pacific Microsonics Processor and Rohde & Schwarz tuner and the “End of the Live Phonostage” break up sinusoid very unpleasantly. The sound of Pacific and Schwarz get worse with PurePower. The sound of the Phonostage does not get worse even the sinusoid get twisted. Whatever it worth: the Phonostage has input filter, the Schwarz and Pacific do not. I did not even try to use my power amps: the APS folks and I mutually agree that my power amps are a taboo for this regenerator.

I ran the system from the regenerator connected to a power meter. Exactly like before I confirmed that the PurePower unit shell not be loaded more then with 200W for sonic consideration. My regular load was 100W and it looks like was even better then 200W. This unit #6 has an experimental feature that allows manual adjusting the depth of regenerator’s feedback with regard to the specific load. This is VERY good and very smart functionality as with class D amp feedback is something that set the stability of regulation and it effectiveness certainly affected by load. Experimenting with different loads I was able to see how the change of feedback’s depth changes the stability of the wave’s summit. However, I was pretty much in the same corner of feedback attenuator. Perhaps it is because I did not run the unit in the very different load conditions… like 70% or 90% of load. Also, I did not detect a whole lot of sonic changed with change of feedback. I changed the load from 50W to 150W that the regenerator might recognize as the “same load”. I presume that if I change the load from 50W to 900W then the feedback attenuator and observing the wave shape change with load might be more affective.

The most ugliest but partially relevant features that all APS units had still exist in my current regenerator. The PurePower returns back to the source power line a LOT of noise. I was not able to use PurePower on my dedicated lines as it craps it out inhumanly power for the rest components that are not connected via the PurePower regenerator. The cure is to plug the PurePower in house utility line, keeping the dedicated audio lines free from the PurePower’s returned noise. If not to do it then this noise is EVRY much visible on scope and it is very nasty.

OK, everything was fine and I might do into the sonic nuances of the PurePower unit. The PurePower drives a lot of switching nose from output. It has the filters but they help only partially. Adding capacitance to the PurePower’s output minimize the noise. In the past I bough specialty for this task some high-frequency-optimized caps and I put them in the game. The PurePower filter has CLCLC filter with 1uF caps. Adding 6uF kills all noise. However, it also softer bass and eats dynamics. Experimenting further I concluded that approximately .5-1uF extra capacitance does OK and it looks like doe not crap dynamics too much. Then I discovered something even more interesting. The PurePower use some ferrite chokes on the cables between the units sections. However, it uses ferrite bagels on both wires suppressing the HF noise across common mode. The differential noise between the hot and neutral wires is not suppressed. I have a lot of ferrite left over from my Tuner/DAC project.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=7851

 http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=7949

…so I put some of them on the individual wires – the result was very-very positive – I did not expected even how effective it would be.  So I went to extreme and load the each inch of the free output cable in the unit with a LOT of ferrite suppressors. In fact there is a lot of empty space in the PurePower unit and am planning to order a twice-trice longer cables (between the generator and output filters) and put there insulting amount of ferrite, both in common and deferential position. With what I did load with ferrite the init was very nice with practically no need to add caps to the output. The ferrite kept the “super texture” but took the edge out of it – very nice and gentile effect. I need more ferrite… where this damns cheap Russian surplus suppliers where one you can barter a railway train of ferrite cores for a bottle of vodka…

I was listening and I kind of like what I heard and I decided to finish up any further experiments and let it to be. I unplugged all cables, suck doe the regenerator, picks it up and dumped it in my closet – where I was intended to sit driving the system via the extension cables. I installed the PurePower and without even connecting any input of output cables I stated the unit from own buttery. Well, it was the last time when I saw it working. The unit started, in 2-3 second it heard a click insider the unit’s chasses and in a few seconds the air of closet begin to fill with the small of coked electronics. What the fuck!!! The unit went down, it was restated but there was no voltage at output – so it looks like the output stage was burned. I have to tell you that I was so disappointed that it hard to explain. I was trying to call to APS folks, it was Saturday and they were not there. It was kind of good as I was so pissed off that I could tell them something that we both were not be happy later. Why this fucking regenerator keeps blowing up? This is 6th unit and 3 of them ended up in flames!!! Is it cursed or it is just faulty designed? I do not know the answers.  If my 2nd  PurePower unit blew up what it started my power amps then the unit #4 and #6 blew up totally without any explanations! From one side the APS people are fine and cooperative dealing with this type of problems but the downtime and the annoyances with shipping and replacements are …. the annoyances. Not to mention that since the last June when I started experimenting with PurePower I did not have even a whole week of a properly functioning APS regenerator in my room. Is it too much to ask?

I truly do not know what to do now. It looks like the PurePower idea might work but it must work persistently in order to be usable. The APS folks admit that under specific conditions the PurePower might blow but they connect it only with exercise in-rush current. In case of my unit #4 and #6 I had no in-rush current, in fact the unit #6 was not even connected (!!!). What I need to do next – to fix it and to pray that it will not blow next time? The APS people claim that their new 2000W regenerator immune to burning out. I do not know if I feel comfortable to believe to it. The reason this damn regenerator is blowing is because there is insufficiently designed protection.  How difficult in case of any problem to shunt the regenerator with 100-150A diode? The diode switches at nanosecond sped that would take a fraction of cycle – and solid state device will not have time to get overheated… Anyhow, I do not know what to do now. I know that I would like to USE the PurePower unit in my system, not to spend my time to write the stupid post at my site about the damn regenerator’s flames. It begins to annoy me… The second summer is coming through and I still stupidly waiting for the PurePower’s freaking miracle….

The pissed, Romy the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 134
Post ID: 7972
Reply to: 7971
Some salt for those wounds
OK, I admit I have been waiting with crosed fingers all along, hoping to gravy-train; it fucking well figures...

And now that you're on to the damned cross contamination, I fear there is No Hope.  If you only got 1.1V commom mode, that is actually great, BTW.  Try the house lines with and without stuff plugged in, on and even "off".  Some of those stupid digital "clocks" never shut off unless you unplug them.  For that matter, to really freak out, try measuring the "silent" dedicated ground.  Where's Tesla when we need Him?  Anyway, summer sucks.

Meanwhile, I keep going back to the electric motor turning the generator...  put a nice big cap across the motor; run the generator "raw"; total star grounding...

Sorry to be Not-Green about it, but apart from the inefficiency, it seems like this would work, given enough power driving a large enough good-qualiity generator.

No Music for a week now...

Best regards,
Paul S


08-03-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 135
Post ID: 7975
Reply to: 7971
The APS PurePower ++

 Romy the Cat wrote:
OK, everything was fine and I might do into the sonic nuances of the PurePower unit. The PurePower drives a lot of switching nose from output. It has the filters but they help only partially. Adding capacitance to the PurePower’s output minimize the noise. In the past I bough specialty for this task some high-frequency-optimized caps and I put them in the game. The PurePower filter has CLCLC filter with 1uF caps. Adding 6uF kills all noise. However, it also softer bass and eats dynamics. Experimenting further I concluded that approximately .5-1uF extra capacitance does OK and it looks like doe not crap dynamics too much. Then I discovered something even more interesting. The PurePower use some ferrite chokes on the cables between the units sections. However, it uses ferrite bagels on both wires suppressing the HF noise across common mode. The differential noise between the hot and neutral wires is not suppressed. I have a lot of ferrite left over from my Tuner/DAC project.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=7851

 http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=7949

…so I put some of them on the individual wires – the result was very-very positive – I did not expected even how effective it would be.  So I went to extreme and load the each inch of the free output cable in the unit with a LOT of ferrite suppressors. In fact there is a lot of empty space in the PurePower unit and am planning to order a twice-trice longer cables (between the generator and output filters) and put there insulting amount of ferrite, both in common and deferential position. With what I did load with ferrite the init was very nice with practically no need to add caps to the output. The ferrite kept the “super texture” but took the edge out of it – very nice and gentile effect. I need more ferrite… where this damns cheap Russian surplus suppliers where one you can barter a railway train of ferrite cores for a bottle of vodka…

Socrates once said that non- examined live not worth to live. Well, I ma trying to look “examinatly” at my recent experience with the PurePower regenerator, trying to get out of it what I feel was interesting. Yes, to behave like the “Challenger” and the tendency to blow up is highly unpleasant inclination of the PurePower unit but before it went to flame there was positive and educational experience.

I discovered that further capacitive filtration hurts sound, I observed long time ego in Melquiades section of my site that any capacitors on primary side is infinite evil for dynamics and bass. The PurePower is it looks like have a right balance of carrier frequency filtration and sound. Sure it the PurePower run the sampling rate not a couple dozen kilohertz but a few hundred kilohertz (like most of audio class D amps) then all problems with 50Hz fundamental would go away as the filter would be too far. In case the PurePower however, the out tilter is set fine for whatever the carrier frequency is as it looks like it do fine sonically. It is a very little on the aggressive side of HF range but my late experiments with more ferrite in common and deferential setting indeed help and the it is possible to deal with it and having no negative impact to bass/dynamics as the caps would do.

So, what I would like to try if the damn PurePower ever will work and do not blow? I would like to have a very powerful external high inductance ferrite filter. I can envision it like this: the PurePower is running, producing the audio-capable sinusoid.  All PurePower load is connected to externals powerstrip plugged into PurePower unit. The cable between the PurePower regenerator and powerstrip however is going across a box with very heavy inductive filtration. I can see large 5”-7” diameter ferrite rings with power wires very tightly winded around it, both wires and individual wires. Let to drive non-interfering inductance up and the filter down – we need juts 60Hz fundamental anyhow… Perhaps something like this have already available commercially and juts might be just adopted for use with PurePower? If not then it would be very simple to build the HF suppressor like this. A set of 6-8 large ferrite rings cost around $30, all the rest is just to wind and to fix the cables around them. If my PurePower unit ever will work again I would certainly do something like this.

Rgs, Romy the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-03-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 136
Post ID: 7978
Reply to: 7975
Double Dip
Looking around quickly, it appears that it takes about 2 hp to generate 1,000VAC.  Around these parts, this probably means a 3-phase 220V electric driver motor, which would totally pollute the entire house electrical system that drives it, at least as it relates to hi-fi, H-T, etc.  This in turn means that one is +/- forced to look at the practical maximum wattage generator on the in front and trying to isolate components on the back end,  perhaps splitting the 220 and perhaps isolating 2 neutrals...  Although I have run a record player off a generator a few times, and I know the effects of running large-ish motors off house lines, I know nothing about "feedback" from components back to the generator, and/or whether/how this sort of noise spreads, and/or what, if anything, viable can be done about it without turning the AC to mush.

I have no true hi-fi experience with gas/diesel generators, but in my experience a small portable system sounded even more tinny than usual driven by the gas generator (albeit there was no attempt to optimize it).

Paul S
08-04-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
peter foster
Australia
Posts 40
Joined on 02-16-2006

Post #: 137
Post ID: 7984
Reply to: 7975
Power supply
Dear Romy, your adventures with PurePower appear to be frustrating.  As an alternative, have you considered contacting the equipment maintenance department of a local hospital to discuss equipment that they use to ensure pure power to instruments that can cost millions of dollars.  They may even have some surplus or used devices [e.g., using pulse-width-modulated (PWM) electronic voltage regulation (aka EVR) + isolation transformer unit] that you could obtain for little cost that may supply better result than devices targeted to the audio market.  With best regards, Peter Foster.
08-04-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Lbjefferies7
Southern California
Posts 49
Joined on 01-11-2008

Post #: 138
Post ID: 7985
Reply to: 7975
Electron Microscopy Power Solutions
In addition to Peter Foster's idea, you might find someone who knows about electron microscopes.  I know almost nothing about them but would imagine that power would be critical to their performance.  I think Xiaowei Zhuang is the ramrod around Harvard U with the mega-resolution optical imaging stuff.  Just a thought...

Rgs,
LBJ


I'm not interested in having an orchestra sound like itself. I want it to sound like the composer. Leonard Bernstein
08-05-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 139
Post ID: 7986
Reply to: 7985
Surpluss equipment : Power supplies
You might try contacting this eBay seller... esssurplus

Looking at what he has, one would suspect he may be able to find equipment that corresponds to your requirements.

This, item N°: 230277113008, may not be appropriate, but it does give an idea of pricing.

jd*



How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
08-05-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 140
Post ID: 7987
Reply to: 7984
The unpunishable filmmakers syndrome.

Yep, guys, thanks, I hear what you saying and it is true - the possibilities of the power devises in commercial and industrial world are endless. Even among regulators there are dozens and dozens companies that DC-AC inverters. Some of them might be less inclined to fault or even better sound then APS, who knows…

The problem that I see is not the luck of opportunities but luck of a comfortable framework that would allow approach those regenerators. We do not need a “good power” in audio we need a properly sounding power. I am not necessarily know what is difference but nether those people who produce the power devises. Get for instance the PS Audio Power Plant – it is a perfect power sourse but with a lot of sonic problems…  So, the advantage that I see in the Audio-centric power companies that practice the accommodation of different industrial solutions is that they (presumably) optimize the commercial product to best yield from audio perspective.  It is obvious the APS device was started as some kind of UPS unit that APS folks are trying to adapt foe audio use. I am very fine with it and I do not mind to pay more if all dirty work of getting better sound out of the power devise would be done by the company in house and the final products would have a guaranteed default audio performance. This is how it shell be but it is unfortunately not how it is.  What is the alternative: to chance zillion commercial products and to see which one would work out for audio?  I do not think so.  The companies like APS (and others) are sort of brokers between the army of UPS units and consumers who would like to employ the class D regenerators. I just wish the APS have more qualified engineers in stuff and more serious ability to evaluate sonic consequences of this products performance. But what makes the APS different from many other audio companies? The APS units erratically blow; the ExectPower units have 2kHz bandwidth(how stupid could it is)  - I can go on and on.

As in anything else I see the fault in all of it the QA department of audio industry – the reviewing whores who embrace and sell anything letting the companies to produce anything. Pretend that any film as soon it made has default exuberant acceptance by media and nominated for 25 Academy Awards, 15 Oscars and so on….

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-05-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
peter foster
Australia
Posts 40
Joined on 02-16-2006

Post #: 141
Post ID: 7988
Reply to: 7987
Taking ultrasound as an example
Dear Romy, taking ultrasound equipment as an example, there would appear to be much in common in the operation of ultrasound equipment as with a sound system.  There is analog signal send/receive, conversion of analog signal received to digital form and then conversion of digital signal to analog for both video display AND audio (i.e., where you can hear the heartbeat of a foetus).  My suspicion is that the devices used to supply power to such equipment must be rigorously constructed and would be optimized to a much higher standard for both audio and video, avoiding sonic problems and reliability problems of the poorly constructed equipment you are currently testing.  Power supply equipment used for electron microscopes, presumably, would be of even a higher quality.  There are second hand supplies of these equipments available on the markets so cost should be less.  Even better, probably, would be the power supply equipment for submarine echo radar system (ping) where operators can distinguish craft and sea animals by sound.  Perhaps one could obtain such a power supply equipment (second hand of course) from a dismantled submarine.  With kind regards, Peter Foster.
08-10-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 142
Post ID: 8009
Reply to: 7967
PS Audio. Actually….
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Yep, thanks.  I bought it yesterday as well I bought yesterday the new revision of PS Audio Juice Bar II.

 The Juice Bar II looks like a right devise but it need 2-3 of them.

http://www.psaudio.com/products/juicebariimoreinfo.asp

... the PS Audio Juice Bar II tuned out to be VERY nice. I might got a wrong impression from the picture. They have agreeable size and do whatever they need to do. I will take more of them….

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-10-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 143
Post ID: 8010
Reply to: 2931
The Mozart’s Flute concerto and electricity

Today BSO and André Previn played all Mozart program in Tanglewood with Elizabeth Rowe leading in Flute Concerto No. 1:

http://www.bso.org/images/program_notes/mozart_flute_concerto.pdf

It was quite good program, though I am not a huge fun of Flute concertos at open air but what was practically interesting today was the sound. I was listening/recorded the live broadcast from WGBH and can report the audio sound was horrible.  The broadcast was fine, the reception, the tuners were fine but the electricity was a nightmare….

Well, the flute players during the time of bad electricity die first. A flute is very complex instrument for audio and bad audio projects flute to the background of rest sound, however in reality flute shell glide over music and not to be related to the space of sonic presentation.  A flute is like out of phase monster that shell be everywhere BUT it shell be ALSO well-defined if a mind wants it to be. The crappy electricity messes it all – it converts a tree-dimensional and not restricted by boundary flute to bas-relief of upper range frequencies – very very disgusting…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-13-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 144
Post ID: 8020
Reply to: 2931
The electricity and 88/24 FM recordings.
Last night local guy stopped by to listen my last year changed in Audio. I proudly played to him a record on my “End of the Life Phonostage”… it sounded like crap. The electricity was not very good and I hardly was toleration when the record was over – it was almost painful. I detected before that my FM recordings are way less susceptive to the electricity nastiness and I flipped to play my 88/24 files. It was not perfect but the music from my DAW was much less hurt by bad electricity. I am wondering why it would be so…

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-25-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 145
Post ID: 8099
Reply to: 2931
Debugging Romy’s playback: how it works


This weekend a friend of mine visited me to listen my playback and there was a very illustrative occurrence. We listening my audio and everything was like it should be in the program. He was visiting my last time in 2002-2003, before the Macondo was complete and before Melquiades were even conceived, so it was fun for him to listen 8-feet-tall 6-chennnal installation… from 6.8feet (!!!) that acts like a single driver transducer.

What I heard the playback in my view did not do specifically well this day (I always blame electricity) but I played mostly FM recordings and it was near-tolerable. Then there was in interesting development. We were listening a live BSO broadcast from Tanglewood and then, when the concert was over he asked to play the recording of this concert. I did and he commented on the difference between the live transmission and the recorded track. I replied that he shell not hear any differences. He disagreed…

I have to make know that my visitor (his name is David) is not one of the Yahoos who love to hear audio and run mouth brainlessly. He actually hears the things, have well bread discrimination in audio and have quite advanced listening culture. – I do value his opinion and his judgment. We not always agree and do have differences in opinions but what I greatly appreciate about David is that when I ask him about specifics about our disagreement then never fails to go into all necessary depth to make his finding demonstrable and comprehensible. This is a very rare quality among audio people. Most of the audio people, I called them idiots, have no opinion but the juts recite the pre-fabricated for them cookie-cutter micros judgments and when I hear then open this mouth about audio subjects I developed a sudden temptations to vomit. It was like a month or so a big time industry person (he asked to keep his “famous” name private) visited me and informed me that my playback has honk sound. I, knowing that Macondo has ZIRO honkines, insisted him to point me a single and specific sound or tone that in his view would be honk-associated. I proposed him to play as much music as his wish and I challenged him to “show me the honk”. He was not able but still insisted that Macondo sounded like a honky horn system. Since he made those accusations but was not able to point a single tone that would call “honky horn sound” I terminated the listen and sent him out.  I concluded that he was just an idiot who do not deserve my attention. David is very much not like this. He is very much not BS person and besides having much more exposure and taste in audio then most of “big name” players David is always very explicit in his assessments rational.

I have to say that when people visit me I try do not listen my own playback. I know how it sound more they anybody else and I more interesting to head my playback by the ears and awareness of my visitors. Some people are locked-in, not-communicative and do not offers this chance. Some are more extravert-listeners and give a great privilege to expose own listening awareness to others. So, when David claimed that my FM recorded tracks were different from live broadcasts I was alerted that something is going on. I know that difference and it was not the one that David reported and it was alerting. I took note. Then, after some listening, I asked David what kind problems he heard with playback. He said that if he would go nut-picking then he would point out the “narrowish” amplitude of the colors that my system uses to portray sound; it was identically narrow with digital in analog souses. That, as I feel, was a major blow in my view about my playback accomplishments.

I did not become defensive and “insulted” as most of the audio cretins usually do. I did not behave like that fucking idiot from Oswalds Mill who kissed my ass before and who “flipped” after I visited him and informed him that his playback sounded horrifying. The poor thing was so scared and so panicked that he did not even ask me specifics about what and why the things were wrong with his sound. Now this idiot is running among his crones - the idiots similar to him - telling them the tale that Romy the Cat is the Osama Bin laden’s conestoga wagon driver…

Anyhow, I did not become defensive but I very much disagree with David’s assessment that my playback is palette-challenged. I said literally the flowing:

“David, it is not the ego trip by my very objective and very un-implicable view that color palettes that Macondo-Melquiades are cable to produced at very wide margin more advanced then anything I am familiar in audio. So, (considering the dynamic range at 110dB sensitively and harmonic integrity Macondo-Melquiades are able to support) the amplitude of colorful details iwith Macondo-Melquiades is absolutely gargantuan.  I do challenge you to name any other configuration of amplifiers and speakers that in your view has wider spectra of corrects colors then what Macondo does”

David names a few configurations. I know them. I also knew that I specificly was looking in those named configurations for the color-power and I know that Macondo’s results are so advaonced that Mocondo is even very remote from any competition with the named examples. So, I know that something was wrong I should not have disagreement with David in THESE issues. I proposed him to debug my playback to go to the bottom of the “colors deficiency” disagreement.

I made a number of know to me adjustments in Melquiades operation points and in Macondo setting. David did acknowledge them but the changed were not in the direction of the colors amplitude. I proposed to David to hear my play via headphones driven by my preamp. He reported that the problem did not go away. So, the room the amps and the acoustic system were out of accusations. Then, since my digital is two-box (sourse and external D/A) I switched to phonostage. The colors were not there. At that time I have only phonostage and prams in signal path. I know that phonostage was not the problem. The “End of the Life” phonostage has as enormous color power, as much as it is possible to have in sound reproduction. The preamp and electricity were the only thighs that left to blame.  David insisted to hear his own “super” headphone; we went to his car and got them. “It is identical - no colors result” – he commented even though he was very surprised to discover that overall sound I head in his headphone was very identical to the sound the whole Macondo had in my room…

I have means to run my preamp from DC power and it was what I did. David, sitting in headphones reported that there was no diference in colors when I went with buttery supply on my preamp. Well, the only thing left is phonostage and I figured that it is electricity fucked it up.  I went to my closet and among an army of different power devises I pulled the 1936 RCA-made 100W isolation transformer that I sometimes use when power go notoriously south. I plugged the phonostage to the isolation transformer and… David suddenly began to laugh. The sound was instantaneously fixed with the whole spectra of the colors coming back to the duty. We pushed the sound back via Macondo and it was a day and night. David was pleased and told me that he would like to by this RCA transformer but I told him that this fix was working nicely at this specific case ONLY because some king of specific problem took place in power lines and the isolation transformer was an accidently good fix. “Another day, with another defect of electricity,  –  the same transformer” – I told –“  would kill bass and compress sound”. Another day with the damn electricity….

Rgs, Romy the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-25-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
serenechaos
lost alamos
Posts 86
Joined on 12-01-2007

Post #: 146
Post ID: 8101
Reply to: 8099
On Methodical De-Bugging
Excellent. 
This is why this has become the only forum I still read. 
This is how everyone learns from how someone actually,methodically, troubleshoots problems. 
When the sound in one's head isn't what is coming out of the speakers. 
Sometimes it takes me days...
Sometimes I don't know what's wrong with sound, and just keep trying... 

Have you ever tried just using two large industrial transformers, wired back-to-back? 
Sometimes that works for me... 
Sometimes the old military surplus isolation transformer/filter/regulator works...
Robert 
08-26-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 147
Post ID: 8102
Reply to: 8101
The interesting time migh be coming... the 495th time.

Yes, Robert.

I do have/had different isolation transformers, industrial and specialized - they do not work. I mean they do help and in some cases they help a lot but they have very instable and irregular results. Upon the specific problems that the mains have at the given moment the isolation transformers might ether help, or partially help but screw something else (most of the time), or just plain to destroy sound. I relay do not look forward each time I tune the system on to evaluate how effective my isolation transformers at the given time. I expect from electricity not only a better absolute level of sonic quality but also a stable level when the “quality” of electricity does not drop below a certain acceptable level.

At this point I think I do have a very good sense of actions what I might do with electricity. Fist thing is that I decided to go for the larger 2kW PurePower unit. I know, I know, after 6 1kW unit not working properly it sound irrational but I do like some aspects of the PurePower and the PurePower’s people claim that their 2kW is more stable. The second this is my own regenerator might be hatched in a month or so. It will be VERY interesting devise – like nothing available in existence yet. Still I have no idea how my “brilliant solution” will sound – it absolutely not tested sonically.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-26-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 148
Post ID: 8103
Reply to: 8102
That darn AC Supply
Since all audio folks know that the wall gives us highly variable power (voltage being just about the least important aspect), it occurs to me that a way to measure it that includes all the various parameters would be highly desirable. It further occurs to me that possibly someone in industry or research already has developed such a device, without suspecting its audio application.

So I'm looking for suggestions on where one might look.

clark
08-26-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 149
Post ID: 8104
Reply to: 8103
The dead end of electricity.

 clarkjohnsen wrote:
Since all audio folks know that the wall gives us highly variable power (voltage being just about the least important aspect), it occurs to me that a way to measure it that includes all the various parameters would be highly desirable. It further occurs to me that possibly someone in industry or research already has developed such a device, without suspecting its audio application.

So I'm looking for suggestions on where one might look.


Well, Clark, this is the question that I keep asking for years but I am not sure that the answer is out there. It would be similar to have a devise that objectively and accurately indicate a right polarity of Absolute Phase in any room and any playback. Sure it would be nice to have such a devise and even to build an algorithm around it that would automatically set a right Absolute Phase but I would argue that it is possible. The same is with electricity. I might know what would be the required parameters to have electricity to sound properly but in so many instances electricity has own mind and I never was able to detect any pattern with a certain level of predictability.

Unquestionably the distortion of the sinusoidal waveforms is one of the keys. The waveforms distortions are the result of present in sinusoid any other micro-sinusoids. A stable and free from distortion waveform of voltage is the very much essential. Running a distortion analyses on AC fundamental I think that the waveforms that have less than 1% distortion looks like good enough for audio. Then we have a current waveform. It is very useful to view voltage oscillogramm right along with current oscillogramm off a current probe. Interesting that if in voltage oscillogramm must be perfect in vertical and horizontal demission then it looks like current waveform are not so critical in time domain but they are very critical for amplitude in relation to voltage. The current waveform might very corrupted in time domain with no impact to sound but as soon we have clipped  current waveform then sound goes to toilet. Running a wide spectra spectrum analyzer and trying to see noise in lines at hundreds kilohertzs or megahertzs level is also very useful… However there is a catch in there. The presents of high distortions and noise are the assurance of bad sound, nonetheless the absent of distortions and noise are unfortunately not the assurance of good sounding electricity.

I have seen as my system powered from clipped sinusoid sounded very good. I have seen as adding another power treating device changed nothing measurable but improved sound. I have seen as perfect waveforms (from PS Audio regenerator for instance) did not do well sonically. In other words… go figure.

I would be less paying attention to the “industry or research” and those people operate by objective data and they hardly know anything about sound and nature of objective sonic evaluations. The best that they can come up with are their idiotic double-blind test – the crutches for the Morons who have no idea what to listen while they are listening. So I do not see that the “industry” would even address the problem of bad sounding electricity.

There is another two factors why I think the sound of electricity enigmas will never be addressed at institutional level. The first factor is the fact the electricity is different at each zip code and different part of the day or each hour – so we basically shoot at very moving target. The second factor is that there is no real need to “industry” to resolve this problem. The cry of a few hundred of isolated freaks that their power lines do not sound good is really nothing for the industry’s interest. It would be fun if some kind of “Columbia Pictures” or “Warner Music Group” file a Class Action Law Suit against power industry for supplying “bad sound electricity” – but to fantasies about it is similar as to have a fantasies that someday US public offices would have a mandatory IQ test to qualify to do their jobs…

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 150
Post ID: 8105
Reply to: 8104
Target this
Tonight I listened in my truck to the "local" classical station playing a Mozart piano concerto I did not recognize ibefore I lost it.  As I got closer to home, there was the familiar ghosting and then adjacent station override.  The reason I bring it up is because despite the obvious problems, the Sound was there until the end, and the music delivered, with the proper "ringing" from both the piano and the massed horns.  Basically, the signal-to-noise ratio was simply better than what I usually get from my CD or LP playback, and I wound up with a musical fix almost as good as I get from my house system with LPs on a typical weekend.

I mention it was my truck because this radio and speakers are TERRIBLE, absolutely beneath consideration for a house system.

What I wonder is how does the FM shrug off such very-obvious problems, while the LP(for example) gets so bogged down?

Yes, the electricity is very much a moving target, all right; but what is it about FM that somehow punches through?

Best regards,
Paul S
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