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ArmAlex
Iran
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Joined on 02-15-2009
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24545
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 Romy the Cat wrote: | | ArmAlex wrote: | Dear Romy,
Try EAR 312. it may help. |
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There is a very little info about the EAR 312 and I do not know if it is “stronger”.
Wherever I looked I was not able to find the output impedance numbers. It looks like the preamp use transformer-coupled
SS outputs, I am not sure why it does so. To keep the noise out? That will be strange…
Unfortunately I can't lend it for a listen, I'm too faraway! The system in which 312 is being used is quite different with yours of course. But what i know is when I used more than one set of output many pre amplifiers kind of die. Not this one, even using 2 sets of long interconnects it's very stable and no sound degradation. That's why I thought it may be powerful enough. I can send you some pics from inside if you are interested.
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Romy the Cat
Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004
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I think it will be no 312....
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When you use more than one set of outputs in a pream many BAD
preams will die, but this is also would be depending of the power amps’ input impedance.
If two sets of long interconnects caused
sound degradation then it was not bad preamp but VERY BAD preamp. Generally, a high current, DC coupled preamps
should have the lowest output impedance and it looks like your 312 is the
topology as above. I am not sure what the “psychologically healthy Paravicini” made in his preamp putting there
output transformers. Anyhow, it does not
look as it is a common preamp in my part of the world and I do not think I will
be able ever to evaluate it. Even if I
did I am not sure I would use it as I do not want Mr. is to “build his reputation
on my bones”.
"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Romy the Cat
Boston, MA
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The new room is officially open.
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Today is a first day since we moved to the new house last June
when a local audio guy comes on over to do some listening as I feel that the
room and playback setup is over. It is kind of important to me to have this introvertial
milestone, to know that my playback is up and running and to feel that this
part of my comfort is… comfortable. It is funny as when we were hunting for a
new house then to have a good listening room objectives were very deeply sited into
our requirements. We did not like the house initially but I did feel that this listening
room had a good potentials and it was something that made wify to see and to examine
the house during second showing. She did ask me how long it will take for me to
setup the listening room, and she did imply in that time to rebuild my midbass
horns. We were expecting the twins then and I told her that it will take 3-4
year to open the new listening room for business. So, I am running 1.5 year
ahead of schedule…
There is a tone of thing that I still need to do in my
listening room: organize the CD/LP/Video/tapes alphabetically as it used to be,
find somewhere 3-6 extra DB volume, figure out how to use video and DAW with Larry
Gold at the same time, try to put in ULF use the lest channel extra 2 scan
speak drivers and so on… but the intrinsic bones of the playback Room/Macondo/Milq
operation is already setup and I am content with what I getting here.
"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
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I'd only try to move the computer screen out of the way of the tapestry.
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ArmAlex
Iran
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I'll willingly give away a bottle of 25 years Armeninan cognac and a box of Cohibas to spend an hour in this enviroment.Dear Romy enjoy this "fruit" which you got by spending a lot of time and most importantly a lot of knowledge.
Armen
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Romy the Cat
Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
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24590
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Headphones sound from playback
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I have a local audio guy coming to my room recently and he hive
me an interesting feedback. He said that my playback sounds like a headphone. I
had years back, when I lived in Boston apartment somebody told the same things.
There is a point to comparing the sound of my playback with headphones. One of
the objective that I always had is that listening a playback installation at
the listening position with and without good headphones should not make any difference.
For sure it will be a difference in term of space, imaging and a few other
aspects of presentation but overall balance, the unity of sound, proportion dynamics
across octaves, tonal aspects should be generally the same or even better. Headphones
do allow mentally focus of this of that aspect sound of music, a playback
sound do the same. It is important to note that association of sound of playback
with sound of headphone has absolutely no indication of musicality of playback.
But is does serve a good technical listening starting point.
"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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kodomo
Posts 69
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I heard the same not just from one but from a few guys for my playback as well! I think it is because of the all encompassing effect and the strength of the stereo image. Most people have never heard that strong of a phantom centre, or an orchestra actually laid out in front of them in 3d sound like that. However the visceral feeling you get (not talking about the bass thump) not just from your ears but from your whole body is something I really miss with headphones. You can not feel the dynamics, which means you miss a lot of feeling as that is one of the most important ways one conveys feelings through their instruments. They have incredible clarity, good balance. Great to spot little things and I used them for checking my mixes and after tracking instruments for any problems back when I was recording. They can be like a microscope. I have some stax, and had some other good headphones (akg etc) from studio days but I can never get into them for listening pleasure.
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Romy the Cat
Boston, MA
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Sound in a head vs sound in space
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| kodomo wrote: | | I heard the same not just from one but from a few guys for my playback as well! I think it is because of the all encompassing effect and the strength of the stereo image. Most people have never heard that strong of a phantom centre, or an orchestra actually laid out in front of them in 3d sound like that. However the visceral feeling you get (not talking about the bass thump) not just from your ears but from your whole body is something I really miss with headphones. You can not feel the dynamics, which means you miss a lot of feeling as that is one of the most important ways one conveys feelings through their instruments. They have incredible clarity, good balance. Great to spot little things and I used them for checking my mixes and after tracking instruments for any problems back when I was recording. They can be like a microscope. I have some stax, and had some other good headphones (akg etc) from studio days but I can never get into them for listening pleasure. |
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Kodomo, I do not think that “all-encompassing effect and the strength of the
stereo image” is something that make people to associate your playback with
headphone. The strength of the stereo image is something that headphones do not
have it in my view. There are headphones-focus community in audio who might
feel that I am a fool and they would violently disagree with me and they spent
a lot of efforts to get the imaging via headphones. I would not argue. I am not so advanced in the
headphones world but my experience with headphones, whatever it is, advises me that
there is no imaging with headphones. A properly set playback should be way more
advanced in term of strong of a phantom center or orchestra laid out. If somebody
feel that a playback images like a headphone then it would be in my view a
great insult. The headphone do “sound in a head” and this is very different
from normal playback that should do “sound in space”
"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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kodomo
Posts 69
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Romy you take it from the wrong end. Of course the image is vastly different as the sound is in your head with the headphones and not laid out in front of you. But a centre image is exactly at centre (not in front but centre, a phantom inside your head), everything is separated precisely from centre to sides and have their own 3d locations. The difference is one is in your head in 3d, the other is in front of you in 3d.
I did not take it as an insult as it was not. If I could actually figure out a reproduction system to sound exactly like headphones and somebody told me that, that would still not be an insult, that would be an incredible breakthrough and would mean I have found a new way of reproducing sound 
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martinshorn
Germany
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Sounds like an insult to me
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hi Romy
Confusing description this headphone alikeliness. I heard couple of strong beaming horns and noticed despite the good resolution (equivalent to dampened room) also a very narrow stage. Especially the center usually being like a meter or two closer to me. I was describing it joking as „spitting to my face , like a headphone „. I want distance, like in the philharmony, realistically far away. Its of course not all in head like a real headphone (which i don’t like either) but still, wide dispersion speakers or dipoles especially electrostatics have the air and space i want. So, in your system, u refer to the resolution only, or the stage is also very narrow?
Cheers Josh
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Romy the Cat
Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
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Well, probably too much looking into to the word “insult” made
the focus of it a bit off the target. I
do not know what makes the headphones to have bad imaging devise. There are zillion papers written about it, whoever
care about it might look among the headphone people. I never care about it, even though I use headphones
a LOT, being a software engineer I do work in headphones in office.
Horns are usually are bad for imaging. Different topologies
can throw much better imaging then horns. Still, there are reasons why horns do
not image as good as some other topologies and is to take care about the reasons
(time alignment, horizontal surface, back reflections etc…) then it is possible
to get a spectacular imaging from horns. Not a lot of peoples know how to get
there.
I still feel that direct radiators conceptually have advantage
over the horn’s imaging.
"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Romy the Cat
Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
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Some odd pleasure with no memory.
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Last Friday I have some time free from work and kids and I
sat in my listening chair, put some music in spend nice few hour to listen
music. The playback sounded very nice. Not nice in audiophile sense but rather
very none-conflicting and musical all together. It was very pleasurable and I had very nice
time.
In two nights I woke up during the night for some reasons and
the memory of the pleasure I had listening my music come to me. They the strange
things happened: I did not remember what music I played. A few days past and each
day I am trying to refresh in my mind what music I played that day and I just
do not remember what was it. I have had it before…
"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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steverino
Posts 367
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| Romy the Cat wrote: | Last Friday I have some time free from work and kids and I
sat in my listening chair, put some music in spend nice few hour to listen
music. The playback sounded very nice. Not nice in audiophile sense but rather
very none-conflicting and musical all together. It was very pleasurable and I had very nice
time.
In two nights I woke up during the night for some reasons and
the memory of the pleasure I had listening my music come to me. They the strange
things happened: I did not remember what music I played. A few days past and each
day I am trying to refresh in my mind what music I played that day and I just
do not remember what was it. I have had it before… |
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Do we really need to explain this to you?
Anyway your set-up looks relaxing and pleasing (apart from that monitor stuck up there) and I hope you enjoy your time spent with it. I think the surrounding decor is an important adjunct to enjoyment of a nice audio system. Enjoy the holiday season. Best wishes. Steverino
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Romy the Cat
Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
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24776
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I was listening a few days ago the first crescendo of the
Bruckner 9 by Vienna and Giuliani. I was listening probably 20 times in row and
was always feeling that I was missing something. The Bruckner crescendo are different
then most of the crescendos in classical music. Bruckner always lives some space
in “there”, it was goes laud, large and with his typical “gravitas” but it has
some very interesting “loudness space”.
I do not care how many ‘f’ in the Bruckner score. The celebrated
5f in famous music or even the Ligeti‘s 8f cannot be projected to Bruckner
in my view. The morons like Mahler is trying to get gravitas by dynamic range
but Bruckner does not do it by pure loudness and by many other things. In my
former listening room I was able to get some Bruckner crescendos in the way how
I like it but in my current listening room something in missing in my view. The
sound-wise it is fine but it has in my view it has slightly shallow philosophical
meaning.
I have been thinking about that “philosophical meaning” in
the Bruckner’s reproduced crescendo for some time. Sound-wise and texture-wise
the crescendo fine. I think that the crescendo in my current listening room are
lacking info-sound. The info-sound in reproduced music does not give only “weight”
to bass but also alter “meaning’ of that weight.
I am thinking how to inject the sub 20 Hz bass in my room. I
do have space to do and means to do it but I am slowly contemplating for more
elegant way to do it…
"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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steverino
Posts 367
Joined on 05-23-2009
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I am thinking how to inject the sub 20 Hz bass in my room. I
do have space to do and means to do it but I am slowly contemplating for more
elegant way to do it…
Why are you trying to get sub 20Hz in your room in order to play Bruckner's symphonies or anyone else's? The orchestral bass goes down to the mid 30s Hz limit nearly an octave above 20Hz. The only exception would be large pipe organ
where the lowest note is 16Hz. Bruckner's crescendos are weighty not only because of the massed forces but also the relatively low frequency range of the trumpets he used (in F not C) and the way he orchestrated the brass and strings. The lower range instruments have more overtones in the audible range and therefore fill up the soundfield. The slow tempos also help increase coherent reverberations. Mahler and Richard Strauss use the brass and horns in more varied fashion and are more contrapuntal in the scoring.
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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
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Yes, it seems like these "crescendos" should have something under them for "support" and "seriousness", and the something should be the size of Valhalla. My ceiling is only 8' and it seems "too low for Bruckner". Mark's higher ceiling works better for the "atmosphere", but I'm not sure a larger room alone is enough because no matter the size of the room it must be "fully charge-able" FR for a shot at "complete" Bruckner. Although most conductors do not try to blow the doors off with Bruckner, there must always be "portent".
Paul S
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steverino
Posts 367
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Paul,
You do raise an issue I was unclear about from Romy's post. If the aim is not to hear the music accurately but instead to be overwhelmed by it then some kind of sensory overload is the goal. This would be like putting an amplified band in a small club or letting the Velvet Underground turn up the amps in the recording studio while performing the songs on White Light White Heat. Listen to that record for how it sounds when you are not inside that room. But inside the room it sounds well uhh overwhelming.
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