Romy the Cat wrote:

Also, in DHT the electrons flow dispatched not from uniformed nice cathode but from many 3-D wires that make the arriving to anode not… time-aligned and more unsystematic. BTW, this is one of the reasons why many DHT people prefer the 50-60 years old tubes – older tubes have more “hanged” cathodes that got longer by gravitation and consequentially have more room for “shaking”. If to look at the subject slightly deeper then it would be obviously that some things might be “done” with it. I will be doing next weeks two very interesting experiments that might tune out to be very promising.

Well, I have to admit that I feel that those conversations about the “soul” of the vintage tubes bring conversation and actions absolutely to nowhere.  Yes, I have to admit that there was a special magic riding a horse pulled wagon but we for very strange reasons use today the air-conditioned contemporary automobiles.  I have to also admit the ascent in air balloon has a very special feeling but we chose to travel by airplane.  I have to also admit, and a I know that many people will not like it, that any of my own exposure to the practical achieved sonic result of the people who not just used the DHT but expressed in absolute importance of DHT lead to me walking out of their listening room literary laughing.  Interesting that laughable it was not as much Sound itself but rather the absolutely idiotic in my view faulty premises that they used to built their playbacks.   Did I witness interesting Sound with DHT-stressed applications?  Well, my problem was that I did not witness any serious objectives in the minds of the DHT-stressed system owners and that is my problem.  I certainly do not associate the primitivism of playback objectives with admiration of “soul of vintage tubes, I juts report what I was exposed to. I still would like to experience as serious installation with explicit use of old DHT that would me more then exercise of the syrupy paranoia.

Saying that I would not denying the presence of a special character of sound with some older DHT, the question is: are we playing to the “special character” or we are willing to creatively use this character without our own special objective for sound reproduction?

I personally more inclined to have “accurate” sound and word accuracy is more implies to a playback accurately and fatefully render the essence of musical events. Pay attention – not accurately play the input signal, not accurately play “what the microtones heard”, but rather the accurately play what I feel shell be played and what I recognize is important in given played material. In many way to do so I need to start with impartially of playback and then to enable playback to do what need to be done. In many ways I feel that “specials character” of DHT tube might be an obstacle, lucrative   and “profitable” but still obstacle. Perhaps I did not hear a properly implemented DHT, that why I was inviting the DHT people to show me off what is possible out there. It is much possible that I shell not have worries about DHT at all as not DHT person year point me out that my own inhalation has a specific aspects the might be improvised by DHT application. Well, this is the subject that I am researching…

Anyway, there is thing that I am concerned, well, not concerned but rather am thinking about and I was implying it in my question to “nl” above. The way in which I used the DHT that I had last week was what I feel is “right” way. It was not DSET but it was multi-amp where I was taking out of the DHT the only very limited bandwidth where DHT is not too much compromised. Let also pretend that the DHT in this limited bandwidth did (for whatever reason) its “timing randomness” trick that I also described above. (lest for the sake of illustration pretend that the randomness is a properly of the DHT topology)

Now, we are multiamping the system complimenting the MF-only DHT with IDHT LF and HF channels, of like Guy does with 845PP amps (let pretend that 845PP does not have this “timing randomness”). So, will the DHT’s randomness manifest itself in this application? The “timing” marks might be very much defused by IDHT’s timing in this case. My theory is that the “timing randomness” is the specific collapse or a specific build up of particular harmonic pattern right before or after the signal changes it’s dynamic pointer. Would the presents of other channel that does not comply with this “specific collapse or a specific build up of particular harmonic pattern” be a wrecking the effectiveness of “timing randomness”?

drdna wrote:

Romy the Cat wrote: So, what I am talking about is ability for an amp to have some kind of inner-algorithm that dynamically and actively “color” or better to say “dye” signals, still maintaining general color-neutral tendencies.  Since I kind of formulate this concept in my head I would like to name it and will refer it in future as Active Pigmentation. I think you must be careful to be seduced by the idea of adjustable color, to avoid going down the road that Bob Carver did with the adjustable Sunfire amp or Mark Levinson did with Cello Pallette preamp. It should be more like a knob to fine tune the station rather than a "loudness" button.

nl wrote:

I am interested that Romy has found some interest in But, if I wanted "neutral" I would use a gainclone-type amp. DHTs can be among the lowest-distortion amplification devices ever made. However, most DHT users like the funny addition they make to the sound, and tend to emphasize this aspect.

nl wrote:

In general, DHT amps are lacking in power, dynamics and bandwidth.

tuga wrote:

nl wrote: In general, DHT amps are lacking in power, dynamics and bandwidth. Would this be the result of poor implementation or rather a feature of such technology? If the latter is true, then it might only make sense to use DHT for Injection purposes...

Romy the Cat wrote:

I personally more inclined to have “accurate” sound and word accuracy is more implies to a playback accurately and fatefully render the essence of musical events. Pay attention – not accurately play the input signal, not accurately play “what the microtones heard”, but rather the accurately play what I feel shell be played and what I recognize is important in given played material. In many way to do so I need to start with impartially of playback and then to enable playback to do what need to be done.

Romy the Cat wrote:

Now, we are multiamping the system complimenting the MF-only DHT with IDHT LF and HF channels, of like Guy does with 845PP amps (let pretend that 845PP does not have this “timing randomness”). So, will the DHT’s randomness manifest itself in this application? The “timing” marks might be very much defused by IDHT’s timing in this case. My theory is that the “timing randomness” is the specific collapse or a specific build up of particular harmonic pattern right before or after the signal changes it’s dynamic pointer. Would the presents of other channel that does not comply with this “specific collapse or a specific build up of particular harmonic pattern” be a wrecking the effectiveness of “timing randomness”?

drdna wrote:

The VERY INTERESTING idea is that the introduction of noise as a dithering element for the analog signal (for our brain to decode) can be helpful in increasing the retrieval of information vital to conveying the Sound. Perhaps different types of noise would be helpful for different types of information: a regular repeating noise to improve rhythm, a repeating amplitude noise to improve dynamics, etc. Well, I am just thinking out loud now. But the idea that we can introduce specific types of noise or signal into a system to enhance capacity for information retrieval is very interesting. We only need to figure out what kind of noise to accomplish the tasks to do the experiment. Adrian

In fig.12, the low-frequency sidebands indicated with a gray "5" lie at the ±75Hz subcode frame frequency; the ones indicated with purple numeric markers lie at ±17.6Hz and its harmonics. These sidebands appear to be associated with the 4716 transport. When I used the 4716 to drive other processors, these sidebands appeared in their analog output spectra; if I drove the 4715 with my usual PS Audio Lambda transport, they disappeared from the 47 Lab's output spectrum (though the data-related sidebands were as strong as before).

drdna wrote:

The VERY INTERESTING idea is that the introduction of noise as a dithering element for the analog signal (for our brain to decode) can be helpful in increasing the retrieval of information vital to conveying the Sound.

Romy the Cat wrote:

BTW, the idea of analog dithering (randomanization) will be used in the coming Avicena Power Generator…

drdna wrote:

Okay, what is that, and where can I hear it?

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/GetPost.aspx?PostID=8522

and I have been expecting it  with a LOT of anxiety. Dima have sent the Avicenna out today, ironically this week the new PurePowe regenerator shell be shipped as well.  Between them I hope it will be a very radical attack on the electricity problems. Talking about the subject of the thread: if I able to resolve the electricity problems then I consider bringing the DHT one more time and repeating the experiment with properly sound power lines. BTW, some aspects of random none-harmonic noise injection will very much side functionalities of Avicenna, perhaps 2% of what the unit will do.  I am sure if Avicenna does sonically what is expected from it then I will be talking about it.

drdna wrote:

I guess you mean the "Arabian" power regenerator you have been working on with Dima? Well, I will wait to hear the results enthusiastically. If it works, I want one too! The idea of analog dithering opens up a whole new world of possibilities regarding circuit design. It is too bad I am totally ignorant on the subject. I have no idea where to start. Adrian

Romy the Cat wrote:

The second solution, that I order of magnetite more enthusiastic about, I will keep for a time being secretive but if it work then it will be the most ridicules and the most affective idea that I have seen in tube amplifications.

serenechaos wrote:

Sometimes it's good to be sucked at first?

serenechaos wrote:

How does it suck? It does not generate second and fourth harmonics? It did change something else in a negative way? There was an unexpected negative effect on Sound, which you don't think can be "fixed?" Sometimes it's good to be sucked at first?

Nope, it did not generate any necessary harmonics at least at the magnitude to be useful.  Very sad, as the idea was superbly elegant. The only one “non-orthodox” try I will make it will be with elections randomization in IDHT (will be posting) and it is not work then I at this point have conceptualized what I will try. I will be the version 3 of the circuit below:

… I have magnetic but I need juts to pick with tube to use.

All, those DHT people admit that DHT are not neutral and in a way colored. Well, I care less about THEIR definition of neutrality but I would like to verify the subject of intrinsic DHT coloration. Is it possible that DHT coloration are the property of specific implementation (did not mention 3-4 stages with crappy vintage parts?) I mean if to use fast amorphous 1:4 input, good DHT, no-nonsense PS, amorphous output, and to put it in DSET over 3000Hz then would it be as “clean”, as “fast” as DHT theoretically might be? I do not know but I think it will be as optimum configuration for a possible use of DHT in non-melodramatic application. It is ingesting to learn how different a DHT will be from my 6E6P. Did you see anywhere a single stage DHT? I think that last time Telefunken did it in their V301 amp. It was PP, my will be SET, well I have higher sensitivity and need just 1.5W…