| Search | Login/Register
   Home » Horn-Loaded Speakers» The 5-ways from Germany. (39 posts, 2 pages)
  Print Thread | 1st Post |  
Page 2 of 2 (39 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1572195  08-03-2007
  »  New  Midbass Horns and Real Estate...  Just a youtube video......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     247  2157745  07-26-2009
  »  New  About bass horns by Johan Dreyer..  There are lowest bass horns and there are not lowest b...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  95279  02-11-2008
  »  New  ... again on GOTO Unit drivers.....  GOTO installation in Lithuania....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     108  1149950  08-16-2008
  »  New  The state of High-Efficiency Loudspeakers...  Tom Danley’s brilliant law...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  91136  02-25-2009
  »  New  Eventually - a reasonable midbass horn from GOTO..  Clever DIY going on where?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     97  1203511  11-19-2007
  »  New  Magico: Robert Harley’s upperbass mouth...  Surprisingly interesting write up by Federated Mike abo...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     35  338127  02-19-2006
  »  New  Horn-Kultur 5-Way from Germany..  Horn-Kultur 5-Way from Germany...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  19760  08-10-2011
  »  New  A new kid in the block: Sadurni Acoustics..  Axpona 2015...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     21  149440  08-22-2011
  »  New  The Kato-san's Goto system..  Brilliant...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     10  52251  05-23-2017
02-05-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 26
Post ID: 24678
Reply to: 24677
Very inspiring bass drivers loading.
 martinshorn wrote:
This also explains the isobaric setup of both drivers.They use a conventional closed rear cabine. And radiate properly loaded into the horn.
Sorry, I did not understand the loading you described, I thought it is one after another along the horn axis. After you depicted I got it I got it. In my view, this is absolutely brilliant configuration for bass drivers. I never heard such a configuration but from what I know it is a wonderful decision. If I do my midbass horn I would do something similar. It should be a real pain in ass trying to guess what should be the size of that triangular back chamber but it is doable. 

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-09-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 27
Post ID: 24679
Reply to: 24678
About the Germany Loading.
I keep thinking about the type of the loading the guy from Germany used. I am not sure if I agree with Josh that the absence of front chamber if the key for the success that Josh describes. Let analyze it. 
 
The front chamber for LF drivers is not bad at all. The frequency at which the LF drivers operate makes the front chamber very much irrelevant. I case of dual 15” drives the front chamber always in play and throat size become huge and consequentially the horn become huge. In case the Germany Loading (as Josh described above) the Germany front chamber is not there, it is not good or bad, it is not there. There is of cause a very strong resonance opportunity as the location where the horn close in the back but the space behind (the horn tail) is very smalls and the resonance will be too high to care.
Josh claims to his liking of the result from the horn very much and he feels that it is become there is no front chamber. However, horn used a driver that Josh does not know and therefore I do not feel that Josh has a methodological reason to associate a reported good sound from the horn with the lack of front chamber. I feel if a person knows that sound of a driver as a direct radiator on sealed configuration and see the equalization response coming from a horn then a person can claim that a given type of loading was successful. Without knowing all of it is is very difficult to attribute causality for good sound. If sound is bad then it is frequently easy to say why but if sound if good then we need to be very conservative to reverence one or another narrow parameter. 
 
Please, do not feel that I question the Josh judgment about the sound he heard. Furthermore I do find that the Germany Loading is dazzling and very much deserves attention. (I would not use the driver in opposite phase and keep the horn channel free from second driver’s basket). What I do assert is that the good result that Josh report from this horn NOT NECESSARY derive from the fact the horn does not have a classical front chamber.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-10-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 28
Post ID: 24680
Reply to: 24674
Ghost.
GOTO make me feel it renders the musicians like they are ghosts. They are all in there but floating and slightly transparent.

I think the reason for that is GOTO does very interesting things at highs and mid-highs but while it goes down at the frequencies it start losing colors, or sounding more and more none.

At the same time I feel ALE does almost exactly the opposite. That does interesting things from lowers to low-mids and then start to sound none while going up at the frequencies, but in the ALE particular case the thing is more like sounding vintage or lazy.

With those particular characteristics, and if those are not just (my) impressions but something true, there is a quality hole exactly in the mid-range (for my taste at least). Maybe the Vitavox S2 (or GIP-594A or GIP-9101) would the ideal partner, how knows?


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
02-10-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 29
Post ID: 24681
Reply to: 24680
Goto vs S2
I would like to pass my observation about the whole notion of Goto vs S2. Some might feel that that my observations would be less relevant as I personally did not experiment with Goto drivers. So, there is no reason for you to read further. I head a few Goto installations and I have quite good experience to deal with Goto sound vicariously. I spoke with a number of very knowledgeable Goto users about Goto, including Reinhard , the gentleman who owns or co-own the playback under discussion of this thread. I do hear well what those people say. I also dealt a numbers of idiots Goto users and I do have a very good truck to get from them the information that I need and the fools did not even understand what was going on. Still, I do not have my personal experience with Goto (in my playback) and this should be taken under consideration. 
 
I meant to replay about it to Josh after his comments about Goto superior tonal quality but something made me not to do it. The truth to be told (as I see it) that Goto is not really a tonal driver and this very much made it very different from S2. We in audio are very much accustomed to tonal drivers. The more spectra or colors drives can furnish with introducing a permanent coloration the better driver is. Of cause the dynamic contrasts and the rest of it are factors but the fertility of color potency is a super important feature. The S2 is super reach in colors and if it is used properly it has no permanent colorations. I took the notion of chromic expression further then I have seen anywhere else by intestinally compromising some other aspects of playback, introducing the injection channel. It was very deliberate move. I would argue if I did it because I find even S2 not colorful enough or because there are other reason… I can advocate both sides. What important however is that my playback with S2 to a great degree made with chromatic objectives. 
 
The Goto drivers in my view are not chromatic at all. What we, the people with chromatic objectives value in sound, in my view, do not exist in Goto and if I compare Goto, having colors in my mind, even to some good vintage JBL drivers then Goto would not the winner. All known to me drivers, even the top of the line RCA MI, WE 9XX, Klangfilm KL are all tonal drivers. Goto is not. Still, listening Gotos I, being a very much tonal person, somehow have no frustration about the apparent lack of Goto colors. The reachness of tone just evaporate from my mind when I heard Goto and it is very strange about those drivers. I have no explanation how they do it but I have a suspicion that it is all about the Goto diaphragm suspension, the unique combination of material, thickness, magic force driving the VC made the sound very uniquely “plastic”, but in a very good meaning of the word. This atonal, “plastic” and super dynamic sound is very appealing and somehow make brain do not worry about colors. I hate to use word “plastic” as it is condescending and I have no negative meaning saying it. The TAD do sound “plastic” or “synthetic” but in bad way. Goto, if they do not have that very remarkable dynamics, would be sounding like top of the line TADs, but they do not. They have own “synthetic” sound but it is very natural and very attractive sound, which very much bring a questions: if “synthetic” is good then should I keep calling it “synthetic”? 
 
To me listening Goto is like touching a Teflon surface, it is very pleasurable. Following the same association to me listening S2 is like patting a brashed porcupine. Well, none of them live sound but for sure the Teflon is more pleasurable to touch.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-10-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 30
Post ID: 24682
Reply to: 24681
Texture
A somehow-related thing is "texture", and - of course - what we want is the "availability" of a range of musically relevant textures rather than textural "overlay".  The S2 and the Altec 808 had this potential, but I never heard it from the JBL 375, which was prized for its "smoothness".  Greedy listener that I am, I want both colors and texture, which sum along with "shape" to make "timbre".

Paul S
02-11-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 116
Joined on 03-26-2008
Post #: 31
Post ID: 24683
Reply to: 24681
Woof...
Hi Roman, hi all...
... very interesting topic... 
I recently made the contact between Josh and Klaus and his Goto system... I experienced Klaus' system three times and also if someway blaming his choices about using only and exclusively "liquid music" and quite to my surprise my mild blaming just lasted a few seconds after every listening sessions at Klaus' place.
Sound - thanking Mr. Speth's well-conceived large 100 square meters auditorium and large MDF straight horns, more than the notorious Goto's drivers - is unique in naturalness and trueness!
The Goto drivers in my view are not chromatic at all. What we, the people with chromatic objectives value in sound, in my view, do not exist in Goto and if I compare Goto, having colors in my mind, even to some good vintage JBL drivers then Goto would not the winner. All known to me drivers, even the top of the line RCA MI, WE 9XX, Klangfilm KL are all tonal drivers. Goto is not. Still, listening Gotos I, being a very much tonal person, somehow have no frustration about the apparent lack of Goto colors. The reachness of tone just evaporate from my mind when I heard Goto and it is very strange about those drivers. I have no explanation how they do it but I have a suspicion that it is all about the Goto diaphragm suspension, the unique combination of material, thickness, magic force driving the VC made the sound very uniquely “plastic”, but in a very good meaning of the word. This atonal, “plastic” and super dynamic sound is very appealing and somehow make brain do not worry about colors. I hate to use word “plastic” as it is condescending and I have no negative meaning saying it. The TAD do sound “plastic” or “synthetic” but in bad way. Goto, if they do not have that very remarkable dynamics, would be sounding like top of the line TADs, but they do not. They have own “synthetic” sound but it is very natural and very attractive sound, which very much bring a questions: if “synthetic” is good then should I keep calling it “synthetic”? 
The above "plastic", "syntetic" so-called neutral character is simply a description of sort... sure very interesting, but let me say, quite academic... the FRP suspension give, well: suspension to beryllium or titanium diaphragm, period.
... sure not a plastic, homogenised sound... yet "plastic", plasticity is a good, correct description - i.e. looking, in awe, among the musical building, the notes, the pauses... 
To my ears, as also a Goto user since 2005, neutrality isn't coldness or unmusical overall sound.
Let me make a comparison with studio microphones: B&K/DPA 4006 are very clean sounding, sporting a very linear 20-20Khz frequency response... a Neumann U47 is coloured in comparison and its frequency response is dips and spikes... a mess.
Both sounds very, very well... I had a long experience with vintage Altecs', RCA MIs' and Westrex' drivers and horns, and several Telefunken', Goodmans' Axiom 80 and Siemens speakers... tasted the "textured" and the Goto "plastic" sound.
To my ears Goto's make something others, ALE included, doesn't: their sound is so unfatiguing and smooth and quick and various that they never supersede them to a Martin or a Lowden acoustic guitar or to a Stradivari or a Guarneri violin... what's on disc or tape arrives in spades to the listener, not only the scholar but also and most of all to the occasional listener. 
My five cents and appreciation for usual insight only at Romy's is well "here".
   

"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
02-12-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
martinshorn
Germany
Posts 114
Joined on 04-14-2017
Post #: 32
Post ID: 24684
Reply to: 24683
Explanation of magic dust...
Hi everyone,
Ive been tracking this exciting conversation for some days. One from outside may think this is weird, we are making a lot of air about some sound-description without getting to the point. Im (or was) normally more rational. And if I read something like that years ago id just leave that page SmileNow, in the beginning i wrote, there is not much description about Goto Sound in the web. 

I understand now why. There actually is. Like "oh that air, that soul, that mystique aura of plasticity...." and I thought "and what? wheres the point? speak sense, cut the BS"... and that made me think there is no (serious) sound description of Goto.Well then I heard em and i cannot do it any better Big Smile hehe. There is nothing wrong about Goto and it would be an ordinary boring thing if not after 30 minutes it suddenly soaks you into the rabbit hole of excessive joy that is hard to put in words. That just for the ones reading this here thinking the same "what the heck theyre talking about" ...

OK. My 2 cents on Romans earlier words. Thats right, i mightve been influenced by other things than the prechamber, i didnt have a comparison.Let me add, i mentioned the speed of sound to Klaus. Then he mentioned the chambers. And that he had visitors that where so inspired that they copied the whole 1:1 and it didnt sound right. It turned out, they used a classical prechamber. So that ruined it...Still i believe i mightve also heard to 100 squaremeter "hall" that basically lacks all the usual 40-120 cycle room modes that bounce and decay into headache in any normal small room. Thats my assumption.

Next, on the later posts, i was kind of laughing that of all possible paramters you guys first attack the suspension.Well Klaus himself said Goto sounds like that because of its huge magnets.To me that all makes little sense. Suspension and magnet shouldnt be overestimated. Especially that no matter how big you scale any magnet in its physical dimensions... it will not guarantee you any bigger force in the gap reaching the voice coil. Coz thats a lot bound to efficient concentration of flux by hard strong special iron etc, tiny gap size, etc. So if you look at the Goto specs, their magnets (though big looking) are not any stronger than the usual JBL, TAD, Lowther, whatever... 

I was thinking about it though. The general setup of good horn design, many ways to run only very few octaves per driver.... etc prevents a lot of coloration by principle (honk at the bottom, breakup on the top). That explains to me the general cleanliness and lack of any disturbance or coloration.Still, it doesnt play "sterile" like a TAD. I assume 2 things to blame. One is the titanium. That rings way earlier, resulting in very little very short decay resonance already octaves below the typical breakup point of a specific diaphragm size. As they run all very narrow bands like <=2 octaves, and a very constand growth of dia-sizes downwards the bands... it likely distributes gentle resonances across the whole audio spectrum evenly distributed. With a scale so small you cant distinguish a coloration standing out to annoyance, still feel this vibrant something adding a spice to the colors like that rough texture. Almost smooth, yet exciting.
The other thing that may contribute and really sets Goto apart from usual compression drivers, is the "compression".Normal drivers and phaseplug design is so much different than what Goto does. At least nowadays. Goto still uses compression chamber design from WE times like half century ago. They play the whole diaphragm against a flat blocking surface, squeeeze with incredible high compression through some holes. No good in modern perception. That may cause a normal working design that only in case of sudden dynamic peaks of very short & high level create second harmonics and even IM distortion. That would explain the special dynamics in perception.

I do not want to write negative. Just to find a rational explanation.

cheers,Josh
02-12-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 33
Post ID: 24685
Reply to: 24684
It is all about us labeling own perception.
Josh, I am not sure what you want to say. If you looking to name the reason why you like the sound of Gotos then you are guessing as much as anybody else. I can tell you even more. I very confident that the Goto folks themselves are guessing. I do not think that exist some kind of proper formulations that would responsible for better compression driver sound. It is were then we would not have so many products that do not sound good. Goto, as any other makers have some self-convinced set of knowhow that they stick with and that looks like give them result that make the brand recognizable. If you, they are or anybody else would name the “secret” that they have then they all will be wrong – there is no secret. What does exits is a very delicate balance of multiple and in some instances accidental parameters that in some case do produce good results. The parameters include the geometry of magnate assembly, the type of magnets, and the type of diaphragms the type of plastic suspension, the type of suspension fiber-reinforcement, the quality of gap aliment, the geometry and execution of exit channels, the type and execution of phase-plug id it was used, etc, etc, etc… There are many other factors and all of them in combination make sound. There is no one who can tell you how it should be. People juts do the things, get some kind or result and all that they do is just label result with a trade name. I am absolutely convinced that there is no one who can actively navigate a compression driver design to a specific requested sound. They all are in way accidents. Still, if you ask me to single out the most prominent characteristic then their plastic suspension projected to the diaphragm damping would be it. BTW, it would be “it” in any other compression driver....

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-12-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
martinshorn
Germany
Posts 114
Joined on 04-14-2017
Post #: 34
Post ID: 24686
Reply to: 24685
Buy or die
Hi Romy. 
Sure but its nice figuring out main contributor to specific sounds. Inspiring DIY people to change flavors to their prefs. I dont like the buy or die mindset. I just managed after lot of time & money to get my components to copy the vox olympian. Just before assembly i heard this Goto monster and dont want to continue anymore Big Smile Now... i dont want to rush and buy Goto now. 
I rather want to think and analize what contributed to my perception. How to get there. What created this charme. Most likely the things that are totally different to others, rather than things which are the same everywhere.  
But yes, youre right that there are way too many factors to blame one only. Its the harmony of many. Just that you guys started saying "its the suspension"... and i think thats way too simple.  
cheers, Josh
02-12-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 35
Post ID: 24687
Reply to: 24686
I think you are focusing on wrong things....
 martinshorn wrote:
I just managed after lot of time & money to get my components to copy the vox olympian.  Just before assembly i heard this Goto monster and dont want to continue anymore 
Josh, Josh, Josh… come on! We are not in the business to build the “best playback in the universe” like that celebrated retard from Moscow formulated it. You should not be going from listening room to listening room, from hand to hand, trying to find who get better sound and try to imitate it. What you heard in Olympian was not necessary the Olympian itself and what you herd in in the German playback was not Goto drivers. Do not repeat mistakes that were made by so many unfortunate people in audio – copying external evidences of sonic successes and not aligning them with own spiritual objective. Honestly, from the way how you sound I do not feel that you need to touch audio design for a while and I very much do not mean to be condescending or disrespectful to what you look like trying to do. 
 
A day after tomorrow your cousins from Deutsches Symphonie-Orchester Berlin will play in Frankfurt am Main Bruckner 6. In two days they will repeat it in Hamburg. On Feb 18 Frankfurter Museumsorchester will be doing Bruckner 7 in Frankfurt. Forget about your audio. Forget about sound. Listen some Bruckner, make love to whoever you love, raise your kids, be integrated  and embraced with the universe you live and then trey to make you own playback that would reflect your own feeling about you, world, sound, music. There is no drama or tragedy in playback making and you for sure should not be using anybody cable elevator as somebody that you would lose sleep over. A superior result that you witnessed in somebody else playback should not be an obstruction or hitch for your personal interests how sound should sound in your listening room, serving your objective and yout visions how sound should be served. 
 
I do not bring me as an example for imitation but I think I might tell how I feel.. I have an OK sound in my listening room. Anytime when I hear in somebody’s else listening room a “better” sound it does not make me to want destroy my playback or to modify it in accordance to other people reference points. Your playback is your personal item, it is like your toothbrush or underwear, it is no one business what it is and if you see that other people use different then you items then why should you care? 
 
I understand that listening different playbacks sometime extend you understanding of what is possible to do it audio. But it also says that you had limited sense of identity about own actions before you heard other people playback. Let me to give you as association. You have a committed love relationship with wife, girlfriend, or a partners and your feeling you have to this person mollifies you who are. Then you get an exposure to let say $20K per nigh escort girl who in flash demonstrate to you some “reference points” that most likely your partner never will be able to top. What does it mean for your ability to enjoy the relationship with your permanent partner? 
 
 
All, that I am saying is stop looking at anybody. Build a playback that reflects you, satisfies you and that will render for you music in the way how you want it to be. All the rest is rubbish. If you do what I advise you to do then traveling to different places and listening different, even much better, playback inhalations will give you totally different level of pleasures. You will not be worrying how much better or worse another person playback sound but you will be curios what another person listen while he is listening…


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-12-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
martinshorn
Germany
Posts 114
Joined on 04-14-2017
Post #: 36
Post ID: 24688
Reply to: 24687
Couldve told me yesterday ;-)
Hi Romy. You hit some point. But thats half obsolete. I shouldntve tried to gather the stuff for the VO copy. That visit to Klaus opened my eyes. I already switched my priorities a view times. From tonality, then resolution, to latest color (VO) but now i see its the dynamics being the core of enjoying music with your heart.Listening to Klaus Gotos was not some other fancy desireable thing. Maybe it was not clear on which scale that thing is performing "good".Remember your first big bang in audio that woke you up, since that you target good speakers?I feel like before we have been fighting about whos got the better bluetooth boombox, JBL here Vitavox there... whatever. That system from Klaus is that big bang, after which you have no way back. And you cant tell anyone "go do your own boombox"... no way.But youre right in the aspect that ill have to find my own way. First problem (most will share) that i dont have a 100sqm room. So there is only one way to create a similar size-depth-width-and distance of stage: a multicell horn. So I already discovered several potential deviations for a "domestic adaptation". Call that "my way"... Anyhow, most important step for now was to stop all the stuff, just hang out, enjoy some red wine in paris, and do something totally else for a couple of weeks! 
Cheers, Josh
02-13-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 338
Joined on 08-18-2014
Post #: 37
Post ID: 24690
Reply to: 24688
All is not lost
Hi Josh,

I think it is all a matter of perspective.  Personally, I would be very surprised if the key elements of the sound of that system that so impressed you is due to the Goto drivers.  There are at least three more important things:  that big room that make it possible to use enormous bass horns without equalisation; Klaus and friends' apparent ability to discriminate sound and their objectives about sound; 30 years of trial and error.  The big horns do not make sense if your room is anything less than enormous.

I am in the late stages of duplicating Macondo and Melquiades DSET.  This project is not about building my 'end of game' acoustic system, rather it is about building the starting point to those ends.  With the right technique and honest appraisal of results and methods I hope to be able to craft Macondo Melquiades to satisfy my circumstances and requirements.  In no way do I expect to be completely happy once I get the first sound and I will have to work hard at it to get the end result, perhaps changing channels and other things along the way.  So perhaps you could treat your Faux Olympian in the same way?  Those components certainly have an awful lot of potential and are likely a very good starting point for your highly dynamic system sans Goto.  The Vitavox stuff is even the building board for Macondo so there seems to be more than one way to get good results from them.  

Cheers,
Anthony
02-13-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 38
Post ID: 24691
Reply to: 24688
Be careful...
 martinshorn wrote:
I already switched my priorities a view times. From tonality, then resolution, to latest color (VO) but now i see its the dynamics being the core of enjoying music with your heart.
Well, I very much assure you that what you call “dynamics” is not the very last stop in a man priorities. The dynamics to great degree derives from magnetic force projected to moving mass. Goto operates at the top limit of magnetic force the very much as a few other drivers. You can’t magnetize the gap more than 2.4T and it very much might be done by very moderate size of magnets. Some VC assembly, diaphragms and the most important the diaphragms suspension make all difference. TAD has the same 2.4T in gap but the code and the suspicion that make it sound like the driver submerged in silicone lubricant. Goto looks like have it under control, good for them. Anyhow, having just “dynamics”, at least as you understand it now, is a bit barbaric way to demand from audio. The greatest dynamics is wonderful but it should be projected very clever to harmonic slowness in sound. This is very delicate balance and I have seen a lot of audio people who slipped in this endeavor. You can get “great dynamics” by using overly-idle OPT, OTL amps, overly magnetized filed-coils and by a few other things but if all needs to be properly balanced with some dynamic release, some sort of “slowness” that need to be very delicately factor into the sound. Listen live sound, you have no resolution or dynamics… 
 
I do not claim that with Goto dynamics it is impossible to normal sound and do not get that typical for Goto Wagner-style elevated speech. I think it is pososble. If I employed Goto it would be the main fight for me. I do not know how other people, including your Klaus dealt with it. If you want to educate yourself how typically people deal with Goto Dynamics then I do encourage you read at Russian site a long thread of the guy from Moscow. It is superbly educational and I reads like a history of disease and the most spectacular of all that each stage of his meatls audio illness is very good illustrated with audio clips of his sound.  A few year ago he bought all possible compression drivers, including a pile of Gotos and brainlessly put random drivers in random horns, record at his phone the sound he got. He has bad taste, bad hands, methodologically disturbed and has a lot of other problems and I do encourage you to listen the sound that he demonstrates at his clips. This is very typical sound from ignorant people with magnetically overcharged drivers. Your infatuation with dynamics and resolution might very much lead to it.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-13-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 39
Post ID: 24692
Reply to: 24690
Another Kid?
 anthony wrote:
Those components certainly have an awful lot of potential and are likely a very good starting point for your highly dynamic system sans Goto.  The Vitavox stuff is even the building board for Macondo so there seems to be more than one way to get good results from them.

If you would like to make a conversion or experiments with Goto drivers then it would be a bit difficult to you in context of the frame you chose to use. The Vitavox drivers that you use have diaphragms in back but Goto have diaphragms in front. It is not hard to pick up some Goto drivers, they show up from time to time at used market and cost no more than anything else but to accommodate the time aliment with them is a bitch. Also, Goto have much narrow bandwidth and MF needs to be split by upper MF and Lower MF. So, all together to try Gotos would require to re-architect the whole system integration. The second is loading. Goto always stay with slow opening exponential horns that are horrible in my view. To load the Gotos in contemporary fast opening horns (Tratrix, Lahorns…) gives looks like better result but to a degree and it provides lower throat resistance and with ultra-light Goto diaphragms it feels the diaphragms are less front-loaded then they should be. The result is overly-fast sound… So, it is very possible that if someone want to experiment with Goto then it should not be in context of any current playback but starting a dedicated test playback specifically made to experiment with Goto drivers.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 2 of 2 (39 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1572195  08-03-2007
  »  New  Midbass Horns and Real Estate...  Just a youtube video......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     247  2157745  07-26-2009
  »  New  About bass horns by Johan Dreyer..  There are lowest bass horns and there are not lowest b...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  95279  02-11-2008
  »  New  ... again on GOTO Unit drivers.....  GOTO installation in Lithuania....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     108  1149950  08-16-2008
  »  New  The state of High-Efficiency Loudspeakers...  Tom Danley’s brilliant law...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  91136  02-25-2009
  »  New  Eventually - a reasonable midbass horn from GOTO..  Clever DIY going on where?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     97  1203511  11-19-2007
  »  New  Magico: Robert Harley’s upperbass mouth...  Surprisingly interesting write up by Federated Mike abo...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     35  338127  02-19-2006
  »  New  Horn-Kultur 5-Way from Germany..  Horn-Kultur 5-Way from Germany...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  19760  08-10-2011
  »  New  A new kid in the block: Sadurni Acoustics..  Axpona 2015...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     21  149440  08-22-2011
  »  New  The Kato-san's Goto system..  Brilliant...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     10  52251  05-23-2017
Home Page  |  Last 24Hours  | Search  |  SiteMap  | Questions or Problems | Copyright Note
The content of all messages within the Forums Copyright © by authors of the posts