joaco wrote:

Romy ; One question for you ; Does the pure power unit raise its temperature (gets hot) when youre using it ? or is it always cold ? I do not know what kind of IC they are using but I suspect they are "new generation ones??" I was making my self these question because the unit I bought use very few SMD chips. Lastly does PP2000 produce their own chips or are they using 3rd party ones?

Romy the Cat wrote:

Joaco, thanks for sharing. You said that you use 2A3/45 amplifier, do you use choke or capacitance right after your rectifiers? It would be interesting if you plug a scope into your loaded regenerator and post a picture (make sure that you lift grid on your scope).

Romy the Cat wrote:

Tell more about this Fernadez regenerator.

joaco wrote:

About the 2A3/45 , I ask a technician from Japan that lives several years in Chile to build it , he develope the whole tech repair lab for pioneer here or panasonic I do not remember well , but he leaves Chile about 6 years ago and return to Japan , he build it from scratch , living near akihabara can get any component .Please as he does not permit any copy of his site go to http://www.single-ended.com and click on "45&2A3" (on top) and the first schematics is my amplifier you can see the amp is the second one , so you can get your own conclusions about the circuit design ... ( i need to ask you something about it later ) I do not have a scope but im very interested in buying one .

Your amp has input capacitor, so it shall be working fine with class D regenerators like PP2000 and presumably your regenerator.

joaco wrote:

there was a problem on an earlier post , the site of this manofacturer is http://www.fernandezfica.cl/ but I found some links on their catalogs to this site http://www.socomec.com/Home_en.html . About 4 years ago a local guy who owns a studio and very good quality components post he had founded a solution for his needs . I know this guy tried every PS audio that was available and some more because he post it on a local forum . He end up buying some devices (I do not know which ones) from fernadez&fica and post that were better for his needs than the ones he had try , so he sold all his other filters . At that time I wasn´t aware of this phenomena as I was fighting with the ugliest horn ever made , the altec 811-B .One thing I have notice and I do not know if it is responsability of the dac chip itsel (multi bit) or the clean ac wave is that now the music is very articulate , it does have enormous sense each note after the other one , it is very difficult to explain but it is like changing the director of an orchestra to a better one in terms of musicality  . Maybe a missing note or distorted one can inarticulate music in such a way that we don´t like it or feel confortable with it .One positive thing is that I called the guy who sold it and tell it was a good unit but that I need a zero noise solution and that one friend of mine is also interested , for my surprise he told me that maybe they can change or adapt the unit for audio use and he is going to ask permission for modifications, I prefer not to have any hope on his words but maybe something interesting can came out of it . I will try the unit in different modes and let you know.

I would like to point out that your links still do not clearly indicate the products you refer to. There are literally 100s on-line converters produced by dozen companies. You need to specify what exactly unit you are taking about.

Romy the Cat wrote:

You need to specify what exactly unit you are taking about. The Cat

joaco wrote:

Romy , I don´t think this is a typical ups unit , but a little more advanced than a typical ups . I think typical UPS does not have double-conversion , at least here in Chile . Note that Pure Power claims "via double conversion technology ..." in somewhere . But yes , it is an online UPS with double conversion . Sadly I don´t have a scope now and yes nobody knows how that 10% is related to sound . It is hard to describe every change because they make the whole music sound different . I said "it just sound much more corrrect now" and in terms of sound I think the mid-bass now has come alive , I could not detect this mid-bass before I do not know why but I suspect was the distortion of the bass because mid-bass is very delicate to show up in some styles , but this change has bring articulation to the rest of the notes , also harsh fundamentals and harsh harmonics are gone , I thought the harsh sound was exclusive responsability of the crossover that is very old , and my room acoustics.  but now Im starting to think different . The bass has become a little shy but tighter and it makes space for a clean mid-bass . Voices seems to be more real , and highs seems to extense more , but in a delicate way . Also harmonics decay in a different way than before , I think more slowly , in summary is that for shure it makes a good upgrade in my system , not the type of upgrade that suprise you at the first time but leaves you deaf in 3 hours . But a change that I like to keep . This is just like you are experimenting with pp2000 my point of view , but I would really like to see this unit adapted for audio use . regards .

I know that this post will be lost in the jungles of my site and I am OK with it. Those who follow my site regularly will have a chance to read it not to mention that for me a message is not what heard by other what I managed to express. My message needs to have a preface.

I do not spend too much effort to convince regular readers of my site that there is a lot on audio that I truly hate, I truly do. It is not some kind of blind maddening blind hate but rather a very healthy feeling of disgust to something very specific coming from a quite discriminating on a subject mind. So, among many very specific hates that I can diagnose myself there is one that I call “the hate of singular reason in audio”.

I truly hate when people come to my listening room, like the result, and then run to but the same cartridge I use, or the same driver I use or the same cable elevator I used. On this unfortunate stupidity is a based the entire stupid audio sale: people sell promises and focus promise on a singular pointed element of playback that is under the sale. If I am  a reviewer, or salesperson, or any other marketing pimp and my objectives is to sell a driver, or amplifier or DA converter then I would verbalize or demonstrate a good result and point out that this result is a sole accomplishment of the driver driver, or amp or DAC. The fact any serious result is a combination of many variables that took years to learn how to control, including the listening intelligence of a listener, will be obviously behind the curtain of any sales pitch.

So, why I am riding the subject of my hate of singular reason? Because in this message would like to reiterate the …surprise, surprise… the singular reason of super importance.  It is not hard to guess that the singular reason I am talking about now is the electricity.

 People who read my site might be surprise or even annoyed by the fact that taking my fight with electricity almost personally for the last 15 years. But my awareness operates by facts and the facts are that electricity has more that profound impact to audio but rather a critical impact. A week or so back, I reported that for two days the electricity was so good that it completely overwritten Sound of my playback, taking it to absolutely new horizons. Over the years I remember only 2 other days like this – one in 2008 and one in 2004. They were not just ‘Good electricity days’ but they were the ‘super electricity days’. Now is the main message for you to get some practical perspective.

Over the years you read at my site about tubes and horns, cartridges and DACs, tuners and turntables, drivers and room treatments.  In why way or another all of it has huge effect on the audio results.  However, in my estimation the gain in amplitude of audio quality that got during those few ‘super electricity days’ was much more important then any other audio advancements I ever employed. So, with all seriousness I feel that I would prefer to have a table radio with life-long  ‘super electricity days’ then the whole my audio setup with the electricity as is.

Romy the Cat wrote:

I know that this post will be lost in the jungles of my site and I am OK with it. Those who follow my site regularly will have a chance to read it not to mention that for me a message is not what heard by other what I managed to express. My message needs to have a preface. I do not spend too much effort to convince regular readers of my site that there is a lot on audio that I truly hate, I truly do. It is not some kind of blind maddening blind hate but rather a very healthy feeling of disgust to something very specific coming from a quite discriminating on a subject mind. So, among many very specific hates that I can diagnose myself there is one that I call “the hate of singular reason in audio”. I truly hate when people come to my listening room, like the result, and then run to but the same cartridge I use, or the same driver I use or the same cable elevator I used. On this unfortunate stupidity is a based the entire stupid audio sale: people sell promises and focus promise on a singular pointed element of playback that is under the sale. If I am  a reviewer, or salesperson, or any other marketing pimp and my objectives is to sell a driver, or amplifier or DA converter then I would verbalize or demonstrate a good result and point out that this result is a sole accomplishment of the driver driver, or amp or DAC. The fact any serious result is a combination of many variables that took years to learn how to control, including the listening intelligence of a listener, will be obviously behind the curtain of any sales pitch. So, why I am riding the subject of my hate of singular reason? Because in this message would like to reiterate the …surprise, surprise… the singular reason of super importance.  It is not hard to guess that the singular reason I am talking about now is the electricity.  People who read my site might be surprise or even annoyed by the fact that taking my fight with electricity almost personally for the last 15 years. But my awareness operates by facts and the facts are that electricity has more that profound impact to audio but rather a critical impact. A week or so back, I reported that for two days the electricity was so good that it completely overwritten Sound of my playback, taking it to absolutely new horizons. Over the years I remember only 2 other days like this – one in 2008 and one in 2004. They were not just ‘Good electricity days’ but they were the ‘super electricity days’. Now is the main message for you to get some practical perspective. Over the years you read at my site about tubes and horns, cartridges and DACs, tuners and turntables, drivers and room treatments.  In why way or another all of it has huge effect on the audio results.  However, in my estimation the gain in amplitude of audio quality that got during those few ‘super electricity days’ was much more important then any other audio advancements I ever employed. So, with all seriousness I feel that I would prefer to have a table radio with life-long  ‘super electricity days’ then the whole my audio setup with the electricity as is. Make your concussions. Romy The Cat

“ I had a similar experience when the electricity was good. ….  But then things changed and it showed PP2000 is not a complete cure for bad electricity.  “

This is very interesting question.  I think that PP2000 is a good cure if it works properly, unfortunately we have no assurance that it does. In my view the PP2000 helps and if it operates properly then it is better with it then without it as a properly operating PP2000 does not hurt anything. However, when the electricity enters a state of the “super electricity days” then it set all imaginary boundaries where PP2000 is able to operate off. During those “super electricity days” the advancement in sound so great that it as I said above: it overrides ANYTHING that was said and done at this site. The good part is the during the “super electricity days” the PP2000 was in operation and I experienced the last two “super electricity days” with PP2000 powering my playback. It did not inflict damage even during the “super electricity days” – which is superbly commendable but I am sure I would be able to say more if the damn regenerator has manual bypass switch.

Now is the main purpose of the post: can the PP2000 to take any electricity and make the playback to sound like it does during the “super electricity days”? Absolutely not, it can’t.  I think the problem in here not in the PP2000 operation but in the strategic aim of Pure Power as a company. Pure Power makes powers regenerating products but they are not in the mission to address electricity problems.  Their objectives are very limited and their intentions to bring to market a products but not to develop a solution. I am sure that they do not know why PP2000 sounds well but even a good sounding of PP2000 itself is not a cure. No one knows what happened during the “super electricity days” with electricity and what specific property of electricity made the playback to response to it so greatly. I have the electricity measurements during the “super electricity days” and they are absolutely the same as during the “average electricity days”. The biggest problem is that neither Pure Power nor any other companies that are trying to furnish power treating products ask themselves those questions and if they do not them they will not have the answers.

Looking at the satiation and experiencing the result of the last “super electricity days” I feel inspired to reassemble Dima’s Avicenna generator and return back to my experiments with electricity. It shall be more then juts what PP2000 can do and this is what I am interesting in.  I am not looking for to get good stable sound but at this point I am interested to have some kind of mechanism that would assure the stable and predictable “super electricity days” results. It does not exist out there and I doubt that too many people out there would even understand what I am taking about. But it is OK, I am well accustom to this state…

From a technical perspective, if we are talking about strategic approaches, I still feel that Pure Power’s topology of non-magnetics and switching amplification is the direction to go. It is possible that exactly what Pure Power does need to be re-engendered from ground up, addressing all technical compromises that PP2000 has. It is possible that whatever residual problems PP2000 has in fact have absolutely no impact to “super electricity days” results. I know that somebody needs to look into it otherwise we always will be slaves of the electricity caprices.  We might have better results but without aiming for the “super electricity days” results we will not open of even realize the full potential of our playbacks.

In my estimation our playbacks running from averages electricity I have here in Boston operates at 3-5% of abstract sonic quality scale. Use of the devises like PP2000 moves the “quality” to perhaps no more then 10-15%. However, when electricity hit the “super electricity days” then the quality shoots over the roof to the full 100% - the effect very similar to DPoLS. The guy whose quote I used above has in my view a playback with many problems but during the “super electricity days” I am sure he did not experience them. The reason is that during the “super electricity days” the gain of quality so great the anything that we know in audio and recognize in audio as quality ingredients just stop to exist.

The idiots frequently ask me why which all my audio experiences I do not start make money on audio. Well, there is a reason why I call them idiots. There is however a shadow aspect of the answer – I do not see in audio anything worthy my inspiration to make truly difference. However, if I would know the secret of “super electricity days” and would be able to have some kind of devise that would deliver the “super electricity days result” by juts flipping a switch then I would register a corporation at no time.  For now, retuning back to screw with PP2000’s capacitors….

I knew a woman who explained me that in sex she behaves like a well trained dog - if you fuck her once but REALLY GOOD then she do not need to have it dally, rather she will be living by the memories of that night. I am not sure about the sincerity of that girl but conceptually in regard to the quality of sound and “super electricity days” I feel very much in the way how she told me.  The last nigh I listening my Bruckner with PP2000 and a shit loaded extra caps. It was a fine sound but “we’ve always had a Paris”….

Romy the Cat wrote:

In my estimation our playbacks running from averages electricity I have here in Boston operates at 3-5% of abstract sonic quality scale. Use of the devises like PP2000 moves the “quality” to perhaps no more then 10-15%. However, when electricity hit the “super electricity days” then the quality shoots over the roof to the full 100%...

manisandher wrote:

I'm assuming when you talk about the PP2000 here, you mean in AC regenerator mode. So what about in battery mode? Is it 100%, i.e. totally equivalent to "super electricity days" in your estimation? The reason I'm asking is because I'm having a dedicated AC line installed. It would be great if I could measure the success of this project by comparing the new line to the PP2000 battery.

Paul S wrote:

Can you share the stated output distortion of the newer unit? Best regards, Paul S

Romy the Cat wrote:

I would say that nothing has changed since last night. The sound still a bit harder then I would like it to have. This hardness is very interesting and in way different, it is not type of the hardness that I would discard as “bad” attribute of sound but it is also not something that I would do intentionally. I am still on a fence with the result and will see what happen later.   What however is the most fascinating is why bass became so much greater. I would still call this new bass too hard bass but at the same time it is more extended and more articulate., I would say even a bit more over articulate then I would like it to have. If I have this sound I would load the output tube at my bass amp for 25%-50% harder. Thinking why I got the change in bass I do not see answers. PurePower people insist that one of the reasons why their regenerator sound so good (when it works properly!) because it capacity to react to ultra short reaction of current. So, presumably with core capacitance the energy storage on buttery become able to give away more instant current.  This in a way imposable as PP2000 is by topology not a able to give the instant current.  Also, my system operates in class A with current draw is absolutely steady, furthermore the current is stabilized by a lot of input chokes. So, why the caps affected sound so much? I do not find any sensible explanations.

Ok, there is nothing dramatic in there, the new days bring new success and failures for electricity battles.

There are some good things. Since I put more caps to one of my new fixed PP2000 I did not have bad electrify days. So, it is very possible that the tweak might work out effectively but a week is too short time to make any more or less generalized concussions…. Again if I had the bypass switch…. The absence of the bypass switch really drives my nits!

The dam UPS have officially lost one of my PP2000 that went to PurePower to repair. It was insured and PurePower promised to replace it next week but the units the UPS lost was my best sounding PP2000. Why they did not lost the upgraded unit that still sound very bad even after the repair? PurePower claims that all this following use will be sound the same and that “we are able to supply endless amount of identically sounding regenerators”. Well, I’ll believe what I see it, or on this case hear it. The sad past the on the unit that UPS lost I glue under the bottom the special mark to assures that this best sounding unit never will be confused. And the assholes have lost it! What a pity!!!

Another disappointment is that I return back to revised Avicenna assembly. The fact that return to Avicenna is not so bad but the fact the I burned it’s transistors is depressing. It is not big deal, I will replace them but me burning the Avicenna’s output stage because of my idiocy will not be the most glorious chapter of my autobiography.  The goo part that I have setups my audio working spare in basement: very comfortable.

This week I will be sending out to PurePower the “upgraded” PP2000. Over that last eek I made two more attempts to use it and in both case it produced absolutely revolting compressed b/w sound. I have no idea why. The November Problem that the unit had was fixed by PurePower, and measurement confirmed it but it still has no sound. I have no idea what PurePower will be “fixing” if it has objectively proper operation. Mystery…

I really wish this saga with my 3 PurePower regenerators be over. I never thought that it will be for 6 month ceremony with unknown outcome. I do not do anything with my ULF channels until I have 3 properly performing PP2000s as I feel that driving everything from one PP2000 vs. 3 PP2000s would screw the ULF results.

joaco wrote:

hmmm sorry Romy for the lost of your pp2000 .... I would like to share one opinion from a technician that lives in Japan and lived in Chile . We were discussing the issues of electricity and he said "Lines in Chile are poor quiality , cables are too thin from the street and from houses" so you change the cables that come from outside and the ones inside your apartment and ask the electricity company to supply you 440V and then buy a good galvanic isolator transformer with step down , now you can use clean , 220V energy . I can understand the use of the isolator transformer but asking for 440V and the step down ?? I do not know , but audiophiles in Japan are fighting the electricity problems asiking the company to supply 220V and then they use step down transformes to 110V . Any conclusion in this aproach ?

oxric wrote:

I have come across this company mentioned in a preview on '6moons,' and the information on the company's website suggests that this is in theory really a complete solution, and one that makes sense even to the non-engineer that I am to AC problems.   http://www.equitech.com   http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/equitech/1.html ....Rakesh