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  »  New  Exceptional loudspeakers drivers..  Compression tweeters...  Audio Discussions  Forum     34  424424  06-12-2006
  »  New  The Ridiculous Japa-Brazilian horn. ..  I think you are misting the other side of the picture....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     54  412249  03-02-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  265028  04-30-2007
  »  New  Building a new music room..  Here is my take for a room that I would like to deal wi...  Playback Listening  Forum     20  147463  10-16-2007
  »  New  The European Triode Festival’s horns..  Good luck...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     57  575143  12-13-2007
  »  New  Make your own horns?..  I have no wet dreams about horns…...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     1  28414  01-22-2008
  »  New  About bass horns by Johan Dreyer..  There are lowest bass horns and there are not lowest b...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  94798  02-11-2008
  »  New  The tapped horns: cons, pros and Sound..  Danley DTS-20....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     57  690660  04-23-2009
  »  New  Midbass Horns and Real Estate...  Just a youtube video......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     247  2146673  07-26-2009
  »  New  Experience Music Horn Installation @ VSAC..  RCA MI-1428B vs Vitavox S2...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     25  280808  05-27-2008
  »  New  My Multi-way Horns..  Faital chamber/ratio...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     8  127401  11-29-2009
  »  New  Many Mani's options: My first horns..  Well, you need to read a whole book....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     27  151407  01-20-2010
  »  New  New speaker system..  One more horn speaker system to look at...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  92085  03-16-2010
  »  New  Dedicated Music Room Build..  Show it....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  61743  03-03-2011
12-23-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
horny
Posts 28
Joined on 11-19-2007
Post #: 26
Post ID: 6173
Reply to: 3781
Midrange clarification
Dominic - At the moment I'm using ..

highs - BMS 4540nd - 1500hz lecleach roundhorn. crossover 1st order HP @ 30khz and 3khz
5842 choke loaded (reg psu) RC coupled into 6N15N (EL84)  with a custom sowter mumetal >1000hz xformer

midrange - BMS4592nd (midrange only special version) 250hz lecleach roundhorn. Crossover at 3khz LP and 600hz HP
5842 RC loaded into 2a3 parafeed into magnaquest cobalts.

A little off the thread, but James, when you say BMS4592nd, you probably mean BMS4591 because the former model is actually coaxial mid/tweeter unit
and not a midrange only special version. However, if you do use BMS4591 (as I suspect), then you might easily try a higher crossover point between
midrange and tweeter, say at about 6 or 7 khz, where the BMS4591 naturally decays and I suspect the whole reproduction would benefit substantially.
This is what Romy is preaching all the time and from my personal experience I can confirm it is much better than the usual 3 khz co point.
I hope anti-BMS police didn`t notice...
12-23-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
op.9
Planet Earth
Posts 68
Joined on 01-26-2007
Post #: 27
Post ID: 6175
Reply to: 6173
I meant it
No, i really did mean a 4592nd midrange - it is a OEM version that I think I bought from assistance audio. There are various reasons I'm crossing over at 3k (more like 2500hz now) - first, the horns are 250hz and therefore too deep for high treble without excessive beaming. Second, to my ears these units sound quite course and unappealing used full range. They do however play very well lower down. Violin fundamentals are thrilling - (an open violin E string can have real weight and body) and they don't have any horny problems used with a 700hz first order.
isn't 700-2400 a wasteful use of a horn you ask? - well I always intended this channel to be more like a 'fundamentals' channel

The superb bargain 4540nd are taking a back seat at the moment. I wanted to find something special and different to compare them to so I'm playing around with a double version of a raal 140-15 (again - not on his website). This is quite an extraordinary driver. Its early days yet, but I've yet to really identify its character properly. They do have an uncanny ability to 'charge the room' and can faithfully reproduce that air-distortion-crackle (does this have a name?) produced by loud sopranos and high wood wind.

now on with those 115hz horns....
op.9


everybody used to call me James in my past other-worldly life.
12-23-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
horny
Posts 28
Joined on 11-19-2007
Post #: 28
Post ID: 6176
Reply to: 6175
Midrange clarification
Thanks for your quick reply. I have been to assistance audio`s website, however was unable to find such model, but is possible they just disassembled the tweeter or whatever.
This is really interesting news, about their violin reproduction, me too would like to achieve as good as possible violin reproduction without spending a fortune on exotic or vintage drivers.
Of course, I don`t consider 700-2400 a wasteful use of a horn, I just thought of a little higher crossovering. Right now I am listening (God forbid !) to a 5 inch paper midrange coupled
to a 60 cm diameter (270 Hz) rounded tractrix horn, without a backchamber (shoot me), mated to a LCY 108 ribbon with a modified (by me) totally flat ribbon and to 8 inch paper woofer
in a transmission line (with the same effective diameter throughout as the driver itself). All drivers wired with the same polarity, crossover points at 600 and 9000 Hz, bass and tweeter
second order (electrically) and midrange only one series cap. The sound is warm and involving The reason I made my own flat ribbon foils is I hate the sound of corrugated ribbons, this is also the same reason (among others) I predict Raal will perform excellent. This week I am moving on to a bigger system with a 93 cm diameter rounded tractrix horn and 60 cm midrange tractrix horn in search for the higher efficiency and better sound. I was considering Beyma aluminium 2 inch compression driver (Beyma CP755NdAL) or Radian 950 PB, they seem quite promising, but will start with a cheap P-Audio WN 73 first (all crap, I suppose to the elite folks). Only when I`ll get to know those cheaper drivers, will I be willing to try (if money considerations will permit) anything better and more expensive.

regards

horny
12-23-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 29
Post ID: 6178
Reply to: 6176
The vintage vs. contemporary compression driver.

 horny wrote:
… me too would like to achieve as good as possible violin reproduction without spending a fortune on exotic or vintage drivers.

I have voiced my frustrations about many contemporary compression drivers. People who manufacture horns today turn prays to BMS, TAD, 180-Sound, TOA, B&C, Radian, Eminence, Beyma, JBL, RCF and a few others, laying to themselves and others that they “modify” them, believing that their delusional tweaking of those divers make any serious difference in delivered sound. They pray to those drivers however not because they are OK but because they are the only drivers that are available commercially.

I do not like contemporary compression drivers as I feel they do not have necessary total quality. I have no idea where “tone” comes in compression drivers, well I have an idea but I can’t manage Tone intentionally. I have never also seen others able to produce Tone in compression drivers by request.

Sure, the vintage drivers are very much NOT free from problems; in fact they are much more complex in use then the contemporary drivers. Still, I feel that some (very few of them) vintage drivers are more fertile.  The exotic price that some vintage drivers have developed recently is certainly an ugly factor but first of not all of exotic and expensive drivers are worth to buy. Second the higher price for the vintage drivers is not a really a higher price if do not subscribe the BS fetish that many brainless Morons spread about the vintage drivers – with “right” driver do not look for anything else and it save a lot of money.

So, in the end I do suggest to try some “exotic vintage drivers” some of them do have merit. The biggest problem in vintage compression drivers is not the price but inability of people to provide true information about vintage drivers as many people who share information about vintage drivers mostly juts swell anxiety and fetish…


http://www.romythecat.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=4685

http://www.romythecat.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=4014

http://www.romythecat.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=2546

http://www.romythecat.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=2694

Rgs, the Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 2 of 2 (29 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Exceptional loudspeakers drivers..  Compression tweeters...  Audio Discussions  Forum     34  424424  06-12-2006
  »  New  The Ridiculous Japa-Brazilian horn. ..  I think you are misting the other side of the picture....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     54  412249  03-02-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  265028  04-30-2007
  »  New  Building a new music room..  Here is my take for a room that I would like to deal wi...  Playback Listening  Forum     20  147463  10-16-2007
  »  New  The European Triode Festival’s horns..  Good luck...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     57  575143  12-13-2007
  »  New  Make your own horns?..  I have no wet dreams about horns…...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     1  28414  01-22-2008
  »  New  About bass horns by Johan Dreyer..  There are lowest bass horns and there are not lowest b...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  94798  02-11-2008
  »  New  The tapped horns: cons, pros and Sound..  Danley DTS-20....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     57  690660  04-23-2009
  »  New  Midbass Horns and Real Estate...  Just a youtube video......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     247  2146673  07-26-2009
  »  New  Experience Music Horn Installation @ VSAC..  RCA MI-1428B vs Vitavox S2...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     25  280808  05-27-2008
  »  New  My Multi-way Horns..  Faital chamber/ratio...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     8  127401  11-29-2009
  »  New  Many Mani's options: My first horns..  Well, you need to read a whole book....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     27  151407  01-20-2010
  »  New  New speaker system..  One more horn speaker system to look at...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  92085  03-16-2010
  »  New  Dedicated Music Room Build..  Show it....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  61743  03-03-2011
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