OK, I agree – it might be not necessary as PP2000 does produce fine electricity in a convenient package. Furthermore it violates the rule that I try to follow in audio generally: define snick objective and ONLY then render audio methods.

http://www.romythecat.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=432

So, if the PP2000 produce a good sounding electricity then why I still bather myself to look into this subject? Well, probably because I am a Moron and intellectuals masturbation is very much not alien to me. The idea of TRYING the conceptually perfect electricity bugs me and I know that no one by myself would be able to satisfy my interests… So, I ate he bullet and got the motor-generator assembly. Did anybody believed that after I get ½ acre of unused lend then I will not try this option? Well, I did not get the house yet but being a fool I got the damn generator.

The really is that I did not what the opportunity pass by. There was a deal for one of those machines:

http://www.horlick.com/products.asp?prod=79&cat=65

http://www.horlick.com/images/MG-60RC-v4.pdf

It is not the induction motor-generators that commonly used everywhere and that suffer from slippage, voltage droops problem to care load, low efficiency, high distortion and frequency fluctuation. What I got is a set of true synchronous brushless motor and synchronous brushless generator, even they much more complex and much more expensive but they produce a perfect waveform that is synchronized with the rotation – a true mechanical regeneration.  It is very expensive set but I got a very good deal on it, not to mention that it is not current production but older machine that use US/UK made parts. It is 6.5kW and optimized to care inductive load– perfect for my application, with exception of 950 pounds weight and 80dB self noise.

The only problem that I see with this devise would be dealing with noise and with… unknown quality of sound it will produce. If the sound of electricity will be better than PP2000 then I think to build a soundproof generator shed on backyard.

http://curezone.com/upload/Members/ChazTheMeatHe/Books/Survival/BW_Mag/Generators_En/How_to_construct_a_soundproof_generator_shed_By_Skip_Thoms.pdf

I can do much better that what article suggest and I have many idea how to make it very chip but very effective.

So, the attempt is here. Funny that I made the move without having the house yet but I truly did not what the opportunity for a good motor-generator set to pass. I think if I get the house in March then sometime in the end of summer I will be able to try the motor-generator and to hear the sound it produces.  Let see how it goes but I know now that I will not be bitching that I never tried it. At this point I need to found somebody guilty if it will not sound good.

Romy, you referred us to the Horlick website.  May we assume you have not gone and bought a "small" 30 HP Horlick unit?  Sure, something like that might put out a "perfect", smooth, clean, full, suitable-for-hi-fi wave at 60 Hz under load, but you probably do not have the "wall power" to drive it, even if you re-routed the service cable coming into your house!

When you mention 6.5k V, all of those I have seen are worlds apart from those big commercial Horlick units.  What have you found that is so small that will maintain perfect hi-fi power under verigated load?

For hospitals, etc., we build block walls around the big diesel backup generators.  That ought to do it for an electric re-generator.

Best regards,
Paul S

For the last 2 days a spent a lot of effort to learn about the power regeneration by frequency converters. That is very fascinating subject, though I have no idea to what kind sonic result it might lead. It is very much possible that my new place will have good electricity to begin with or the PP2000 will be perfectly enough.  Still an each to have my own high current true synchronous alternator that would have no HF noise or any kind and completely immune from power grid is too sweat to avoid trying it. To me the most important even not the concept of generation itself but an option to have no thousands transformers and hundred regulators between the power source and my amplifiers. My motor-generator set came with own regulator but I would like to bypass it and I would drive it directly from alternator, regulating the output voltage by manually exiting the filed coil of the stator. (Considering the my playback run in class A)

The set that I got is truly interesting.  It has 6HP Allis synchronous motor made in Alabama:

http://www.louisallis.com/about.html

It also has a true pride – Minnesota-made, Kato, 12 wire, synchronous, 6.5KWA alternator:

http://www.kato-eng.com/aboutus.html

I spend some time with this application engenders and it shell be very interesting to try those things. Kato do not do those tiny alternators anymore and they did not believe that I found one.  When I said 6.5KWA then they insisted that it was 6.5 megawatts. They reportedly do the best generators in the country; we will see how it goes.

I will need to devise a way to try and see how it sound without permanently installs it as it will be costly. The bigger thing will be to move that 950 pounds monster in the basement of on the yard… Perhaps I need to do it with a hydrogen air balloon…

Paul,

I do not know how perfect would be my old small generator – what I learned was that among all small generators the type that I got shall be the best. It still might be unusable for my purpose, I just do not know yet. This type of the equipment is rated for continuous duty. I spoke with generator people today and they told me that many of their machines are serving for 40-60 years of continuous duty. Do not forget that I will be loading the thing of 1kW of class A – it means the load will not fluctuate.

Regarding the moving. I am planning to weld pneumatic casters udders the frame and to dump the thing in pool house for now. I think 1000 pound on wheels with 57’ by 28’ dimension will be able to be moved by two people. I will get the deliver of the thing in the end of this month and consider to plug it up to see it will be somewhere in 2-3 month after that. If it produces good sound then the noise it will be generate will indicate what it need to be installed. I guess if it on the pneumatic wheels it will do a handleable noise then it might be running even in basement, which would be very convenient. The house has a large basement and a lot of room to  set the generator up.

Romy, you might want to re-think 2 guys and pneumatic casters under a bare frame dolly for a 950 lb. unit.  If you insist on doing it this way, I hope you will make and post a video of the event.  I'd at least consider solid, rated casters, especially if you plan to leave the unit on the dolly for any length of time.

The regulators they put on generators are, best case, tailored to the anticipated load.  Since I got disheartened about it I have not followed through to try to figure out the differences for resistive, capacitive or inductive loads, but I have read that each load type responds best to a somewhat different AC form.

My own idea of "perfect power" is still pretty basic: a steady, clean, full 60 Hz sine wave of 15 or 20 A and 120 VAC.  This is not something I've found yet from loaded porta-power.  Another thing is noise vs grounding.  I have to say that I never tried to get the grounding right on porta-power, either.  With systemic backwash inevitable, I think this would go a long way to quiet things, at least.

The one area where the portable units truly lag vs wall power is current.  As I have said before, one "secret" to [good] wall power is a helluva lot of current.  But I think another "secret" is grounding.

Best regards,
Paul S

Since my playback is officially down I decided to give up my PP2000 for a local audio guy. He guy live in rural aria but has notoriously bad electricity and for many years was trying virtually anything but still what I visited him he always had very well observable electricity problems. I told him that I will not be needed my PP2000 for a couple month, so he can get it for the time being. Yesterday I drove to him, dropped the PP2000, helped him to set it up and did some listening.

The guy has a large multi-way installation with 3 DSETs per side and one powerful SS amp for lower bass. That is all together 8 amps with a bunch or front end equipment (all caps active). We plugged everything into PP2000. I had no idea what was topology of his SETs and how much current they draw. All of them DHT and I presume that it was 200W -350W per amp, so 6 amp for two channels would make it somewhere 1500W-1800W. A few preamps, tube crossover and the rest peripherals would probably do another 200W-400W. So, the PP2000 was loaded very hard. When I plug it the SET transformers went buzzing, so the DC offset in his playback is not the same as in mine. My init has he “experimental” DC offset attenuators. I did not have any equipment on hand and juts by ear we killed the buzz via the DC offset regulator.

I was kind of thinking what to do with big ass SS power amplifier. That amp was sucking reportedly 15A-18A in picks and it was obvious that PP2000 will not swallow it. From another perspective the improvement in bass is the shiniest element of PP2000 performance. So, I was thinking what the hell we can do. I decided to risk and to plug everything into the damn thing. I think if Sigmund Fraud would look deep into the nuclear core of my soul then he will see my subconscious des to kill this damn regenerator. Subconsciously I felt that the PurePower’s assholes do not fix my “fuzziness” for a year and a half (despite zillion promises), so if I burn the unit then it will make them to move. Of cause I would not do anything contrived but I figured that overpowering of the unit is a part of normal operation. So, that what we did… we plugged everything into the PP2000

After a few bars of music the PP2000 blew up.  We restarted the system and the PP2000 worked (!!!!!) but blew up again after a few seconds. This time I did smell some burn smoke on the back of the unit. My attempts to restart PP2000 were not unsuccessful, it shot sis down. “Great”, - I figured, - “I have burned this piece of shit!”. How big was my surprise when is a few minutes the PP2000 had recovered and was functional.  I guess Purepower has short trim output stage bypass and then a long term thermo-defense with automatic magnetic relay. The relay cooled down and the unit was back. This time PP2000 did the overload test flawlessly.

So, we plugged the whole system into PP2000 with exception of bass amps. The sonic result was very exactly what I predicted. The fun part was with bass. Before, when the system was plugged into the wall the bass was reasonable. However, driving the rest of the system from the PP2000 and bass from the wall it was absolutely clear that bass was not up to the demands of the rest of the playback. That result I did not anticipate.

The guy, the system owner, asked me if I would let him to buy my PP2000. I replayed that I would but I have no assurance another PP2000, perhaps more powerful one, would work sonically identical to my current PP2000. I think that this is the problem with those units. Nevertheless, the overload real live test my PP2000 had handled flawlessly and sonically it truly did wonder in absolutely different playback and at near-full power.

If my monster fully synchronous motor-generator assembly will not yield the sound I want then I will make the PurePower to make for me two PP2000-PP3000 and it will be the Finito la Commedia with power interests and the configuration for my new home.

Romy the Cat wrote:

So, we plugged the whole system into PP2000 with exception of bass amps. The sonic result was very exactly what I predicted. The fun part was with bass. Before, when the system was plugged into the wall the bass was reasonable. However, driving the rest of the system from the PP2000 and bass from the wall it was absolutely clear that bass was not up to the demands of the rest of the playback. That result I did not anticipate. The Cat

Will do if I can get a review sample.

Bill

Yes, each piece of gear would seem to require its own unit. But they probably deliver enough juice for a tubed preamp or the like.

clark