GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site - Alive and well on audiogon ???!!!

02-21-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1551
Post ID:	23000
Reply to:	22999

Plating and Deoxit

Search out Deoxit or Pro Gold on this site. I tried it and did not like it because it "goes bad" after a couple of months in low voltage situations like IC connectors. As for high voltage connectors, like tube pins or AC, this stuff is simply not suitable; you need to get it off those connectors. That's why I mentioned the di-electric grease. Used sparingly, it "works", and it lasts for years.

As for plated connectors, the first thing to shy from is Beryllium/Copper alloy, and multi-layer platings. The best plated connectors I've used are from Vampire, which use directly "sputtered" gold over pure copper: http://www.partsconnexion.com/connectors_brand_vampire.html

Eichmann and the high-end WBT connectors are also good, albeit expensive

Best regards,
Paul S

02-21-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1552
Post ID:	23001
Reply to:	23000

Shit

What kind of di-el grease do you use? Silicone based? Could you give the name please.

Also what was your procedure: steel brush -> grease -> reconnect?

Yes, I use Vampire RCA for phono, unofortunately the golden layer is not very durable, on one set it starts to go.
For the plugs I'm looking at IeGo8065 silver over POCC.

Cheers,
Jarek

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

02-21-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1553
Post ID:	23004
Reply to:	23001

Plating and Dielectric Grease

The dielectric grease I use is specially formulated for high voltages, and it can be used on clean tube pins to excellent advantage (ignition grease): https://www.permatex.com/products/lubricants/specialty-lubricants/permatex-dielectric-tune-up-grease-2/

With respect to connectors, do as you like, but be sure to compare your old, "worn out" Vampire connectors with dielectric grease to newer connectors with heavy and/or double plating. Of course, "pure" silver "won't corrode", but, in reality, the silver or silver plate you will get will also oxidize, not to mention sonic "issues" with silver plated Cu. Even if you like it to begin with, my experience is, it changes markedly over time, if this concerns you. I like the idea of a "protective plating", but experience has shown me that the dielectric grease is a better choice, in terms of sonics. Do let me know how it goes for you.

Note: In my experience, the best-sounding connections are super-clean, tight, "naked" connections, copper-to-copper, or silver-to-silver; but these bare connections do not sound good for long. While the very thin coat of dielectric grease is not without very minor "sonic consequences", it remains "acceptable" for a long time, years in my system. Again, the Caig stuff simply goes to shit over time, immediately on high-voltage connections. I use jewelers polishing cloth and polishing "abrasives", when I need abrasives. Avoid at all costs scratching connectors. I use pure alcohol or special, "no-residue" parts cleaner to clean EVERYTHING off connectors before applying VERY little Si grease.

Best regards,
Paul S

02-21-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1554
Post ID:	23005
Reply to:	23004

I sort of hate you Paul

...as you are making me dis-ass-emble and clean every-freaking-thing from the cartridge pins down to the power distribution box and fuses where I used deoxit too.
But i accept the challenge, lets see where it brings me.

Got your point on pure copper protected with the grease. Although the outlets and iec's I use are nickel plated, Cu-Ni electrochemical potential is close to zero at 0.05V (as compared to Ag-Ni = 0.15V) so the contact once deprived of the air should stay clean for years. Will report.

Cheers,
jarek

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

02-21-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1555
Post ID:	23010
Reply to:	23005

Going By Sound

Yes, the "manufacturers" love the Be-Cu because it's easier to tool, and Cu/Ni because it won't oxidize while sitting on shelves; but Be and Ni ares a lousy conductors, and you may feel differently when you listen to alternatives. OTOH... maybe not! ;> Wink

)

Best regards,
Paul S

02-22-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1557
Post ID:	23013
Reply to:	23011

Most Are

All polished with Flitz, cleaned and greased. I definitely have to establish a safe regimen for draining the caps in my amps, however; I won't risk death to change those IECs! ;> Wink

Best regards,
Paul S

02-22-2017

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easternlethal
Hong Kong
Posts 3
Joined on 10-14-2011

Post #:	1558
Post ID:	23014
Reply to:	22991

Kids vs electricity

Romy the Cat wrote:
with kid you know the result. With the damn power cords I very much assure you that even in 20 years no one will understand why they change sound so much very much as no one can truly understand how bad electricity impacts sound.

I said the same thing too.... but now I'm not so sure

just an ordinary lover of music

02-22-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1559
Post ID:	23015
Reply to:	23014

Taking the Bait

EL, I suppose your cryptic post is about not knowing the results with kids. But if it's about knowing how power cord configurations affect the sound of hi-fi/Music, please share. (If kids, no need to share in this thread, unless you have a nice kids/power cords corollary.)

Best regards,
Paul S

02-22-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1560
Post ID:	23016
Reply to:	23013

Deep audiophilia

Paul S wrote:
All polished with Flitz, cleaned and greased. I definitely have to establish a safe regimen for draining the caps in my amps, however; I won't risk death to change those IECs! ;>

We go deeper and deeper into the audiophilia, but as once said the road of exc-ass leads to...
So Paul would you share the copper IEC inlets and power outlets you are using?
I very much understand your line of thought: secure, clean Cu runs and Cu-Cu contacts
from as early as the code permits up to inside the powered boxes.

Cheers,
Jarek
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02-22-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1561
Post ID:	23017
Reply to:	23016

"Common Sense" OCD

Like Romy said, the best route is something that's actually, practically useful and sustainable. I use Onix parts (also labeled NeoTech), and there is also FuruTech, and a couple of others. I think I gave you links to Chris VenHaus (US; he's also the VH Teflon/V-Caps guy) and PartsConnexion (Canada; Chris Johnson and Victoria Switzer), but there are also Hi-Fi Collective (UK), and Michael Percy and SonicCraft (also in the US). If you are after something in particular, as opposed to a particular brand, be sure to keep reading until you understand what you are buying, since most of the mfgs offer a wide range of alternatives, not all of them meeting my criteria, anyway.

By the way, lifting a ground might be a code violation; but we know to be safe, right? Search GSC for discussion of 1960s commercial service boxes with all-copper busses and connector screws!

Best regards,
Paul S

02-22-2017

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xandcg

Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #:	1562
Post ID:	23019
Reply to:	23017

Neutrik powerCON.

Paul,

Have you tried Neutrik powerCON? Do you have any opinion about them? I personally like the locking system idea.

EDIT: not power cord but digital, ANUK have a Palladium plated SILVER foil cable (Black Pallas). Have you tried anything palladium?

Cheers!

Think for yourself, do not be sheep.

02-23-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1564
Post ID:	23025
Reply to:	23004

Boutiques

Today I connected a vacuum cleaner to my dedicated lines to burn them in and I immediately noticed its smoother, quieter operation with increased sucction power!

..... Big Smile

......

Sorry, couldnt resist Big Smile

To the boutiques: Paul thank you, I've known all those butiques and Furutechs etc, but none of them seem to have pure
UNPLATTED Cu IEC inlets and power outlets. But plugs yes...go figure why. Pure "red" unplatted Cu I've seen only from China on e*ay but no idea whats that worth.

Cheers,
jarek

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

02-23-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1565
Post ID:	23027
Reply to:	23025

Time For Shopping

Jarek, I don't have as much time to look for stuff as it might seem like. If naked Cu is not available, directly applied (no intermediary metal) Au has been my next (reluctant) choice, in terms of sound. I've gotten China stuff, too, some OK and some not; options appear and disappear. One thing "audiophiles" tend to forget is, it's often NOT good when the connectors (or conductors, for that matter) are big and thick. The "flimsy" China outlets are fine, IF they are snug. Some are not good if you frequently remove and replace plugs. In fact, this is one reason why mfgs add BE or use bronze, for "spring"; Cu has no "spring". The naked IEC inlets (chassis mounted) have been elusive, and I need some more. I might grind the coating off some plated Cu ones that I have, but one also needs to wind up with tight connections. I would not bother to swap in the usual "boutique", double-plated IEC inlets.

Something seldom discussed on audio forums is that improving connections improves relationships.

Best regards,
Paul

02-23-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1566
Post ID:	23029
Reply to:	23027

Two examples

FYI

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-hifi-Red-copper-GF-IEC-AC-Inlet-Power-Socket-Audio-Grade-Non-Solder-/162296856456?hash=item25c9a57f88:g:HfcAAOSw44BYOVyN

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Furutech-Style-IEC-Inlet-AC-socket-Audio-Grade-Pure-Red-Copper-IEC-Socket-Black-/201772327089?hash=item2efa9160b1:g:uLIAAOSwdWBXOzwU

But how much copper is in this copper God only knows

Cheers,
Jarek

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

02-24-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1567
Post ID:	23031
Reply to:	23029

Unplated Version of AC Outlet?

Too tired to follow up, but it seems to say (at the bottom) that there is an unplated Cu version.

http://www.douglasconnection.com/Furutech-FPX-Cu-Duplex-Receptacle-FURUFPXCu.htm

Buyer beware: I bought some China "gold plated copper" that had gold colored something or other (not Ag) over copper. Technically, "eutectic Cu" can mean brass or bronze.

Paul S

02-28-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1568
Post ID:	23041
Reply to:	23004

No cigar

Paul, I've taken the pains to redo all the connections I could. Washing Deoxit away was a horror.
I polished everything I could polish with a jewellery green polishing paste on a polishing cloth, and flushed the remainings with isopropanol.
I then used this Si dielectric grease:

https://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=Z00HKBM51

similar to yours. Unfortunately while cleaning the toneram connector, the inner cabling broke and I lost one channel....The arm goes to a repair
with possibly a rewire so I had no chance to hear the effects.

Since the the repair obviously requires re-connecting the tonearm cable, I wanted to ask you if you reapply the grease when reconnecting or you leave what you've initially put (I did it rather sparingly, the layers were hardly visible)?

Cheers,
jarek

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

02-28-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1569
Post ID:	23042
Reply to:	23041

Par for the Course

Jarek, sorry to hear the job has been a PITA! When in doubt, I use magnifying glasses to do this sort of work. For (now) obvious reasons, I try to leave tonearm wires alone, as much as possible. Alhthough I don't like the idea of plug-in headshells, this might be a case where the practical facts of actual useage swamp my OCD concerns about "best connections". Anyway, if it's been a while (a year...), I re-clean and re-grease the connection. If it's not been long since the previous cleaning, I either just plug it back in, or I MIGHT apply more grease, VERY sparingly. Since I don't use pre-amp switching to change sources, I swap input ICs fairly often. The Si grease actually holds up pretty well. Dust will stick to it, however, so keep this in mind when you are working with it, or if you leave it lying around. Darkening of metals means oxidation, which means cleaning is in order. Likewise, "stuffy" sound or "static" from poor connections means they should be cleaned and re-greased. The worst case is removing DeOxit that has fried on HV connectors, like tube pins! I've never encountered this with Si ignition grease.

Best regards,
Paul S

02-28-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1570
Post ID:	23043
Reply to:	23042

No pain no gain

That's ok, I took it with humbleness-I've applied to much force without thinking. I'll use this occasion to change the EMT arm connector to normal 5din to have flexibility with phonocables.

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

04-01-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1571
Post ID:	23090
Reply to:	23042

Im back

Paul, my system is back to the operational mode after the EMT tonearm disaster. Actually the biggest disaster was not the lost connection in one of the pins but....the bearing gave up according to my EMT tech (!!!) I must say I've never heard of a tonearm bearing giving up from a normal operation, but I was presented a convincing video with my bearing response to gentle movements and how it should look like. Mine responded like if it was filled with sand. This is actually a warning to EMT users: EMT929 can give up on its own!

So all in all, after cleaning with your method almost all of my chain (all connectors, all tube pins, etc) I ended up with a couple of new variables: my burned in Vandenhul silver litz changed to fresh Cardas + the new bearing. This obviously makes the before/after comparison senseless. All I can say is that there is no night/day difference, maybe indeed some of the HF halo is gone.

I can however comment on the physical state of Deoxited surfaces. First of all I have not seen burned deoxit anywhere, but my only tubes are small signal. Second, the surface below deoxit layer was faaaaaar from perfect to put it gently, esp on copper. It was dark with and any liquid deoxit leftovers were green from the copper corrosion.

I'm still to dismantle and clean the dedicated power panel, but first I let the new tonearm wire burn in a bit.

Cheers,
Jarek

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

04-01-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1572
Post ID:	23091
Reply to:	23090

Piling On

Man, that's a whole lotta extra stuff to contend with! As for the DeOxit, I hope I never said it "burns", rather it just gets worse sounding over time, and HV connections are where it's happened fastest in my system, very fast on tube pins.

Regarding the EMT arm bearings going bad in a couple of years from normal use, WTF? That's absurd! Is it a 997? There has to be a better explanation!

Best regards,
Paul

04-02-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1573
Post ID:	23092
Reply to:	23091

Offtopic: EMT 929

Paul S wrote:

Regarding the EMT arm bearings going bad in a couple of years from normal use, WTF? That's absurd! Is it a 997? There has to be a better explanation!

Me shocked too! The arm is 929. According to the tech, he has to change bearings from time to time and it sounded like a normal thing for him to do.
The arm was serviced by him some 7 yrs back, he reported some prob then but resolved. He says perhaps dust accumulates (??) Mine is always under dustcover. Anyway, -300Eu

Cheers,
Jarek

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

07-12-2017

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1574
Post ID:	23308
Reply to:	23092

DIY Cu Mains Boxes?!?!?

Here's a link to set fickle, OCD hearts aflutter:

https://stormpowercomponents.com/custom-components/fabricated-parts/copper-bus-bar?gclid=CJ2MvuWQhNUCFURlfgodkJsJnw

Now you can have pure copper main busses!

Paul S

07-12-2017

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1575
Post ID:	23309
Reply to:	23308

Too soft!

Unless they process it somehow (cry?). I was going to order copper bus bars from a machinist friend but I realized copper as it is is way too soft for reliable screwed cable connections.
M4 or M5 screws hosted in copper will not stand much torque and hence the metal to metal contact will be compromised. I went with the std brass
busbars but "PaulS treated": polished, cleaned and covered with a thin layer of the silicone dielectric grease.

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

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