| Search | Login/Register
   Home » Audio Discussions » It’s mad, mad, mad... electricity. (* posts, 25 pages)
  Print Thread | 1st Post |  
Page 7 of 77 (1,917 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 5 6 7 8 9 » ... Last »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  175376  05-28-2004
  »  New  Always check power-line polarity...  The Cost of Knowing...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     11  112495  07-10-2005
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  925478  02-16-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  265037  04-30-2007
  »  New  Musique Concrete horns..  These are now sold as Kornhent products...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  108337  06-12-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  163704  07-12-2007
  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  Moray James SPDIF!...  Didital Things  Forum     27  230858  09-28-2007
  »  New  Metal domes..  Try the one Lansche is using...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  79041  11-08-2007
  »  New  The power AC Outlets?..  Where to Pick Up the Gong?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  43223  10-31-2008
  »  New  The Avicenna's failure is the great Avicenna success!..  New life for Avicenna...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  84053  02-03-2009
  »  New  Internet and electricity..  Suboptimal. . ....  Didital Things  Forum     1  29375  01-07-2010
  »  New  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements..  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  16702  03-30-2010
  »  New  Another example of energy..  Tehran 230v...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1916  9958080  01-29-2011
  »  New  I good spot-light for a turntable?..  Reply...  Analog Playback Forum     15  154839  10-24-2010
08-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 151
Post ID: 8106
Reply to: 8104
Is this common-mode voltage ?
In my case, I have not observed any fluctuations in sound quality other than those resulting from my own state of fatigue (maybe they are doing something right with power generation/distribution over here... I don't see many complaints coming from outside the U.S... Could this be a clue?), but I do have a question :

I think it is the result of what is called "common-mode voltage".

When I disconnect the ground lead from the dedicated lines (ground lead located near the components, not at the circuit breaker end), there is a presence of voltage that leaks out onto the metal boxes housing the outlets, and to the grounding lugs on the chassis of the components. It is of a level such that one cannot maintain bodily contact for more than an instant. With ground lifted, there is a buzz in the sound coming from the horns. Connecting the ground lead results in a small spark, but immediately takes care of the problem (both the buzz as well as the not-so-small shock when touching the metal parts). The path to the components is really direct... There is a very fat 2-conductor cable that goes from where the main line enters the building, straight to the big main switch on the circuit breaker panel with no interruptions... From there I wired things so as to bypass the sort of intermediate circuit breakers (recently made mandatory over here), going instead directly to the dedicated circuit breakers, which in turn feed 5 runs of 2-conductor cable, about 30 ft long, terminating at the outlets near the components... Still no ground. It is at the component end that I finally do ground things to an iron beam in the foundation and wall. I have not bothered pulling out the oscilloscope, because with the ground connected I seem to have very constant sound quality. Still, I don't like knowing that I am having to kill such a strong mystery voltage.

So my question : Is this what is called "common-mode voltage"? Should I be concerned that it is so high in my case?

I had the same issue, but not so strong, in one of my previous apartments here where there were no dedicated lines.

Thanks for any thoughts,

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
08-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 152
Post ID: 8107
Reply to: 8106
A grounded approach to a common problem.

At the conceptual level there is really only one "ground", where both the "neutral" and the "ground" ultimately wind up.  Variations in the "aptitude" of the "ground plane"/route to the ground cause it to load up with current, which draws/carries/transmits common mode noise.  There is always a certain amount of "talking" between components.  A great example is that any iso-tranny or conditioner that is used will screw up anything on its circuit that is not plugged into it, and many of these devices are yet susceptable to inter-component "cross talk", ie, some (perhaps most) are only good for one component per circuit, and these circuits should probably not share a neutral or ground wire all the way to actual, physical ground.  Beyond that, it's all about proper "stacking".

Romy just made some very specific observations that tie 'scoped forms and values to sound.  I sure wish the stupid "conditioner" manufacturers would do this, including the self-effects of their own components.  Who wants a "perfect waveform" if its net effect on the sound reminds one of molasses or bleach, or if it pollutes everything else?

But no sense worrying about this awful stuff if your power is always good, right?

Are you served AC or DC?

Best regards,
Paul S

08-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 153
Post ID: 8109
Reply to: 8107
Are we on the same plane?
Paul,

Thanks for the thoughts.

"...Variations in the "aptitude" of the "ground plane"/route to the ground cause it to load up with current, which draws/carries/transmits common mode noise..."

OK, my head is spinning... I must work on more fully understanding this.

"...But no sense worrying about this awful stuff if your power is always good, right?..."

Well, if you define "good" as resulting in non-variable sound quality, then yes you could say that the power I am served is very good. It's just bothers me to know that I could probably drive some sort of not-so-small device with what I am routing to ground.

"...Are you served AC or DC?..."

AC of course; Mr. Tesla won the "War of Currents" over here as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Currents

jd*

PS : If I don't respond, it's because I'm taking the next two days off to finish up the mid-bass horn mold... Will likely start making final parts in about 2 weeks.



How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
08-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 154
Post ID: 8115
Reply to: 2931
Deep entrenchment of bad electricity in playback design.

Here is what I have been thinking for a whale: how bad electricity impacts our long term judgment about the design decisions. Pretend we have a DSET amplifier and a speaker channel and we have a task to load the DSET’s plate properly. The proper loading of DSET with the given speaker is a satiation when the DSET/speaker combo outputs acoustic-like harmonic structure under wider circumstances. I intentionally simplify the things, bare with me….

Now we have a SET, driven explicitly from bad electricity source. In case of bad electricity the sound got compressed and the flatten MF presses the upperbass to become hard for “swallowing” as it rise acoustic pressure before it rises tonal pressure. To “fix” it or to band-air it people tend to idle the SET’s plate slightly more than they would do with good electricity as the increase transients make people to feel (mistakably) that they got some dynamics, brilliance, vividness back.  The SET loading is done and the sound let pretend is OK. Then we clean up electricity with some kind of devise, let say regenerator.  The dominance of pressure over tone is gone and the need to under-load the SET’s plate is not there anymore. However, the amp, driven from good electricity, is still loaded as it would be for bad electricity – with excessive amount transients and inadequate harmonics. This make us to feel that the power curing devise (let say a regenerator) make sound “sharp” and screw up harmonics but in reality it also might be just a signature of overly ideal plate.

The people who understand what I say would know that I slightly twisted some things but I did it for the sake of illustration of the concept. I do not feel that what I describe before is the ONLY explanation and some power curing devises do screw up harmonics but the above mentioned effect ALSO takes place and shell be considered. I do not know what the percentage of mistaken assessment is made die to the bad electricity have imbedded itself into the common audio judgment, it might be 10% or it might be 80%. But I do feel it is there…

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 155
Post ID: 8116
Reply to: 8115
Best Case: something else to integrate
I have offered myself up as a bad example time and again to illustrate the sorts of errors I make in the way of diagnostics and "remediation" of bad sound caused by bad electricity, including plates loads, just as you mention and also much more extreme and absurd "measures" I have taken.

It certainly seems to be the case that no "cure" for bad electricity comes without its price, and it also appears that any one approach to any one problem may severally eff-up other aspects of sound exactly because it also messes up the electricity, itself, in another way.

The big revelation is that, indeed, the "cures" are not merely plug-and-play, as the manufacturers and sellers would have you believe.  Best case, one would have to "integrate" the effects of any curative into the system very carefully.  I have never been successful at this, but I'm guessing it would take a LONG time to do it, through many "cycles" of good and bad electricity.  Frankly, with present "technology", I don't see how it would be done.  MAYBE with a battery bank the size of a 2-car garage (but that alone would not cure the crosstalk, etc, etc...).

Yes, the bad electricity is bad enough by itself, in a generic sense.  But the thing I find most maddening is the inconsistency of the bad electricity and the several and seemingly contradictory manifestations of it.

Best regards,
Paul S
09-08-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Lbjefferies7
Southern California
Posts 49
Joined on 01-11-2008

Post #: 156
Post ID: 8196
Reply to: 8116
Power Speculations

My curiosity peaked with Jessie Dazzle’s last few posts.  I realized that, in France, he receives 220v, 50 Hz power.  I then recalled Romy’s post at http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=1177#1177.  I was wondering if, at 240V, some of the fluctuations between good and bad electricity could be alleviated.  Perhaps if a power regenerator were to run off of the full 240v and output 120v, some of the problems could be alleviated.  I’m not sure, but it is something that I would like to explore.

I have no idea where the problems in our power come from.  I remember that, years ago, our lights were flickering a few times per day.  We had the power company come out and, after being really impressed with our antique copper connectors, he said that he would try to clean rather than replace them.  After that, the lights were just fine.  This was at work and before I had my playback system there (yes, I have my system at work.  Damn, I love my job!).  The lights still don’t flicker but a playback system is certainly far more sensitive to bad electricity and in very different ways.  So certainly some of the problems exist in the connectors. 

At least today, I had good enough electricity to thoroughly enjoy Karajan conducting Beethoven’s 6th and Horowitz performance of Scarlatti’s Sonata for keyboard in E major, "Cortège."

Just my two cents, anyway.  Tesla may have won the current wars, but his plan to wirelessly transmit power through the earth may have been better for audio.  Too bad it didn’t sell.

Cordially,
LBJ


I'm not interested in having an orchestra sound like itself. I want it to sound like the composer. Leonard Bernstein
09-08-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 157
Post ID: 8203
Reply to: 8196
Symmetrical feed : 2 X 120 V
Lbjefferies7 wrote :

"...My curiosity peaked with Jessie Dazzle’s last few posts.  I realized that, in France, he receives 220v, 50 Hz power... I was wondering if, at 240V, some of the fluctuations between good and bad electricity could be alleviated... Perhaps if a power regenerator were to run off of the full 240v and output 120v... "

As most everyone probably already knows, the 220V @ 50 Hz we receive over here is single phase (meaning, in the same way you have 120V @ 60 Hz in the U.S.).
At one point when living in beautiful Detroit, I did exactly what you are wondering about; I connected one of those really huge P1200 regenerators from PS Audio to a 240V dedicated circuit and (leaving the P1200 set to output 117V @ 60 Hz), got what I thought were very good results.

But,
that was quite a long time ago, and right or wrong, I now have a greater level of trust in my ability to discriminate right from wrong in audio (what I want has not changed, I am just more sure of it). Also, this was back in my pre-horn days, using very nice, but nevertheless, ported-box, not-so-sensitive speakers. It would be interesting to hear that old setup in that same room today.

I still have the P1200 (if it's heavy, you can bet I'll keep it... Is there a name for this condition?); As already discussed somewhere here, I have the idea to conduct the same experiment here in Europe (symmetrical feed : 2 X 120 V via a pair of military, US-to-Euro transformers)... I have not yet done it because, as mentioned, in my current location, sound quality does not seem to fluctuate.

jd*



How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
10-15-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 158
Post ID: 8522
Reply to: 2931
Will the powers problems be cured eventually?
fiogf49gjkf0d

Well, if I stop to post in this there is does not mean that the problem is not there anymore and with a new few weeks I hope to attack the electricity problem again.

Firstly the new version of APS Pure Power regenerator is coming and they are about to send me one. It will be 2000W unit and it will be 7th Pure Power regenerator. They claim that this one is much more stable (means will not blow) and has some other advances. I hope that it will eventually work somehow…

Second is the Arabian Regenerator (read the thread) that Dima and I are working for 6 month. Well, I distorted my participation in this project. I kind of found, organize, spec and run the project but it is about it. The full nobility of authorship for the Arabian Regenerator lei on Dima’s shoulder – he designed it and built it.

Knowing certain things about the Arabian Regenerator I have feeling that it might be something absolutely out of this world – nothing like this I even seen or heard about. Some objectives that we impose to this regenerator were so ambitions that they arouse Dima to come with incredible inventions – like a completely new topology of amplifier that absolutely immured to loading impedance, capacitance or inductance. This Arabian Regenerator is able to drive at unlimited power into 100mF capacitor outputting absolutely the same characteristic and the same stability as it would against a restive load. That would be a perfect topology for electrostats… Anyhow, there are a lot of VERY slick solutions in the Arabian Regenerator. I would not go into all of them now, nor would I divulge the conceptual topology of the Regenerator. I would only say that the-fully functional board is finished and tested now and below is the picture of it at the Dima’s workbench. I hope in a few weeks I will have it and will be able to evaluate the “minor thing” – how all those design ideas in fact sound.

ArabianRegenerator.jpg

Well, the exiting times on the electricity Armageddon are coming.

Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-10-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 159
Post ID: 8804
Reply to: 8099
The electricity problems… The Armageddon?
fiogf49gjkf0d

This weekend I made an interesting experiment.  I had a visitor yesterday. The gay is not what I call overly critical and overly demanding listener but he is not a typical Audio Moron and has from my point of view a proper and sane reaction to the things – a seldom quality among audio hoodlums. He also does hear the things, perhaps not by the external or what I call “tactical” hearing but calturalsy - a good and valuable quality in my view, also very seldom among people who practice audio.

We spent 3 hours together and were mostly concern with some aspects of sound of top his top flying tube tuners vs. the tope flying SS tuners but before to do out audio experiments I spend an hour or so to play his various material for him in order him to get a familiar how the playback sounds generally and get comfortable with its sound.

I played explicitly FM recordings off my DAW. I was not sitting at the “sweat spot” but was somewhere else but I clearly heard that it was “bad electricity day”. The sound was flat and quite compressed. An addition of a few dB of volume added pressurizing, almost painful harsh force on ears.  Bass was also very flat with no texture. He did not complained a lot (well if person for a first time exposed to BSO live FM recording in full bloom then it is difficult to complain regarding how bad sound is) even those I felt that he was concerned about the sound of thin mass-strings (that in my vow was absolutely unlistenable). Since the APS people still blowing me and the Avicenna Regenerator is not here yet everything was plugged in the wall. I know that Melquiades’ HF channels are very little sensitive to eclectic power but Lavry 924 DAC through everything go in case of my DAW use is superbly sensitive to electricity and there is nothing the I have can help it.

So, I decided to make some change. I played a cut off my reel-to-real player. It is battery-power and has no contact to great at all, driving Milqs directly. All problems with electricity gone right the way and upper range was soft and non-abusive as it shell be. Furthermore, what I did not tell to my guy was that I was playing Dolby B recorded tape without Dolby decoding (this recording allowed to do it - Kodaly Op.7). Believe me or not but the system handled it wonderfully with no signs of stress at HF.

Well, I figured out – if digital is dead then I need to put the heavy artillery in the fight I begin to spin records. With my TT setup I have an interesting tool - I run my input-choke powered “End of the Life” Phonostage via an RCA-made 100W isolation transformer from in 1920 or 1930. The transformer is absolutely unique as it completely cures all electricity problems. None of the other isolation transformers (and I have quite a few) help to my phonostage. Also, this RCA transformer doe NOT help to any other devise I tried it with. I have to note also that this RCA transformer in some case does not help to phonostage as well (depends what specifically is wrong with electricity) but it is VERY effective in I would say 95% of all cases). So, the analog sound very nice this time. I was able to play is as loud as I wish (I plays it 6-8 loader then Digital files with no complain from my visitor), the basses were as they shell be (you need to hear what the New Jubilee does with bass!) and the top regions were as soft as transparent as I would expected, with no signs of any kind to force themselves to listener’s perception.

In the end of out meeting I asked my typical question: what among all played material my visitor found was the most memorable from this listening session. The question is not as simple as it might appear and has nothing to do with steadying of glitzy effects. I did not played crappy music and all performances were of very high caliber. Also, my visitor was not a typical audio idiot in his search of a cheap thrill of showy sonic sensations. I knew what I was asking and he understood what I meant. His response was peaty much what I expected – he music played from reel machine and LP cuts were the very first records that he named.

Well, what is next? The APS people promised me that this week then will eventually send me the new revision of their generator. Folks this is going on from the June of last year. My only positive expectation at this point are purely kabalistic – it will be the 7th PurePower APS regenerator and I hope my  Jewish heritage would kick in and bring me luck with this 7th unit. The Avicenna power regenerator I hope will be here before end of the year as well. Let see how that baby will push up against the electrician problems. The last battle between me and audio? Eh!

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-10-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 160
Post ID: 8815
Reply to: 8804
It screwed me again.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:
Well, I figured out – if digital is dead then I need to put the heavy artillery in the fight I begin to spin records. With my TT setup I have an interesting tool - I run my input-choke powered “End of the Life” Phonostage via an RCA-made 100W isolation transformer from in 1920 or 1930. The transformer is absolutely unique as it completely cures all electricity problems. None of the other isolation transformers (and I have quite a few) help to my phonostage. Also, this RCA transformer doe NOT help to any other devise I tried it with. I have to note also that this RCA transformer in some case does not help to phonostage as well (depends what specifically is wrong with electricity) but it is VERY effective in I would say 95% of all cases). So, the analog sound very nice this time. I was able to play is as loud as I wish (I plays it 6-8 loader then Digital files with no complain from my visitor), the basses were as they shell be (you need to hear what the New Jubilee does with bass!) and the top regions were as soft as transparent as I would expected, with no signs of any kind to force themselves to listener’s perception.

Just yesterday I reported in the post above how marvelously my RCA transformer cures the sound. Today I have some time and I decided to record for LBJ a cut of Rach II to show off the Jubilee colorfulness.

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=8778

I played the record into Lavry Gold ADC and listened the file. It was not just bad but it was a nightmare. I figured that Lavry went south. Then I played the phonostage to speakers – the same crap - juts a flat wall of gray sound and nothing else.  There was absolutely nothing changed between yesterday and today and my “kinky” transformer did not work anymore. Just for fun I pull the plug from the transformer and plugged it to the wall.  It was a magnificent transformation – with huge and supremely soft bass, very large sound… but believe me or now it was virtually monophonic imaging. I never saw it like this. I shut it down – it was too much for me.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-10-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 161
Post ID: 8816
Reply to: 8815
Given Enough Time
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, I believe it!

Like I've said more tiimes than anyone wants to hear, the stupid electricity has mimicked every single hi-fi fault I've ever encountered, along with producing a goodly number of its own special effects.

It's not that I doubted your iso-tranny-to-the-rescue story as much as I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.

That the shoe did not drop straight down is no surprise to me.

Meanwhile, I keep my fingers crossed.


Best regards,
Paul S
11-11-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
horny
Posts 28
Joined on 11-19-2007

Post #: 162
Post ID: 8819
Reply to: 8816
Electricity yes, how about humidity?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Environmental Effects on the Speed of Sound:

http://www.rane.com/pdf/eespeed.pdf


11-12-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 163
Post ID: 8832
Reply to: 8819
A Pilgrim's Progress
fiogf49gjkf0d
Looking back, I suppose I have only been aware of Bad Electricity as a Big Issue for maybe 10 years or so.  Before that, I just did not listen in a way that made it so obvious (and so pervasive!), and so, naturally, I did not have a system that made it so obvious.  Sure, I have long been aware that bad electricity can make fuzz or "veils", and I took various measures over the years to try to cure the problems I did hear.  But I am sad to say that as I have "progressed" with my listening and my system, Bad Electricity has more than kept pace, setting me back at an exponential rate, something like 2 or 3-to-1 regression-to-progress, worst cases, in both the frequency and the scope of interference.  So when other people talk about their great systems and the great sound they are getting, but they never mention Bad Electricity, I actually wonder how this can be!

I have not had anywhere near the sorts of trouble with temp and humidity that Bad Electricity has caused me.  I have had no significant problems with listening room wave propagation that I could say were tied to humidity.  The worst things I've gotten from humidity were mold on my LPs and corroded metal parts.  This has been a PITA, but nothing like the sort of grief wrought by the %#$@!&* electricity!  As foir stadiums and halls, etc., I wish they'd find ways besides DSP to "cure" the "problems".

Best regards,
Paul S
11-12-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 164
Post ID: 8836
Reply to: 8832
The Bad Electricity factor.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Paul S wrote:
… Bad Electricity has more than kept pace, setting me back at an exponential rate…
Witch actually brings up a very interning view: how much the sound of Bad Electricity entrenched into our perception of sound of audio elements? Yes, some people do live in very rural areas where bad electricity is perhaps a lesser factor but the majority of folks live in more or less urban environments where Bad Electricity is always a huge factor. Furthermore, if I claim that there is no know to me so far Bad Electricity curing devoices then do I have to subtract from any comment about audio the comment denominator of Bad Electricity of the contamination of sound by the bi-products of the power-treatment devises. Let see, if a reviewer post a review with some pretentious for more or less objectivity then sh/e feel a need to enumerate the associated equipment to demonstrate to a reader the context of the “assessment”. OK, I might understand it to a degree. However, the quality of Electricity impact sound much more then differences between the amplifiers or speakers brands or topologies. Why don’t audio people talk about this?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-12-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 165
Post ID: 8843
Reply to: 8836
Sorting Out BEP
fiogf49gjkf0d
Maybe people who don't complain really don't perceive such a big, pervasive proiblem, for any number of reasons.  While I find it hard to believe others would not hear the problems when I hear them, maybe other systems +/- minimize or homoginize the Bad Electricity Problems (BEP)?

When I stop to think about it, I think there is more to "resolution" than the bas reilef portrayal that most audio nuts are aiming at.  And perhaps it is something in the ability to more fully "resolve" music (as opposed to sound) that actually makes a system progressively more susceptable to the various manifestations of BE?

Whatever the reason(s), I did not have such serious problems with the several effects of BE on the Sound before the Sound at its best was so sorted out.

I guess this theory makes the problem either paradoxical or ironic...

Yes, the scale of BEP surely does raise questions about reviewers' observations and comparisons of components in a constantly-changing system (as though the constant changing in and of itself were not enough...).

And I'm afraid that it only gets more puzzling for me when the reviewer mentions the benefits of the power conditioners.

Best regards,
Paul S
11-14-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 166
Post ID: 8862
Reply to: 2931
The Quantum Tunneling?
fiogf49gjkf0d

OK, can somebody explain it to me as I’m a 3 year old?

http://www.synergisticresearch.com/page/ac_conditioning

I do not claim that it is BS I juts would like to know what it is. Jack Bybee’s Quantum Toys, if it is the same, works very badly. Should I expect the synergistic search’s Quantum Tunneling be the same?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-14-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 167
Post ID: 8863
Reply to: 8862
What is quantum tunneling?
fiogf49gjkf0d
There is no mystery to quantum mechanics. Tunneling is a deceptive term, as it refers to an imaginary "hill" of potential that must be overcome.

Imagine it like miniature golf. There is a big hill with a tiny hole at the bottom and you want to get the ball to the other side. You have to hit the ball with enough energy to get over the hill, but sometimes a low energy ball can get through the hole into the tunnel at the bottom, if it is hit just right -- but it is a 1 in a 100 shot.

But why?

Take it a step further. There is a hole on the other side where we want the golf ball to end up. When we hit the high energy balls they are traveling too fast to drop into the hole. Only the slow moving ball that "sneaks" through the tunnel can have the correct speed to drop into the hole.

That is why we use quantum mechanics in things like scanning tunneling electron microscopes.

So what is the "hill and tunnel" in real life? It is because all electrons and subatomic particles exist not as constant objects, but actually as probability expressions of an energy field. They have the properties we expect MOST of the time, but sometimes will act in a low probability way and do what classic physics would say is impossible (classic physics is like saying there is a hill, but no tunnel at the bottom -- no low probability shots).

As to synergistic research, it sounds like pure marketing.

Adrian
11-14-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 168
Post ID: 8866
Reply to: 8862
More (and better) Tesla?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Did anyone read the "Letter" from the firm's Guiding Light?

According to him, "Quantum Tunneling" in this case is subjecting constructed cables/circuits to a 2,000,000 volt HF pulse/modulation for "an exact duration of time", a process that enhances electron flow (or something like that...).

The guy goes on at some length describing how the sounds of his various cables are +/- suited to this or that application.  He seems to be saying that all his various cable designs contribute something, and his best cables combine all the contributions of all the lesser cables in order to contribute the most.

I did not get a clear notion of how quantum tunneling applied to his AC treatment box, but it looks like the he uses some sort of EM field to "treat" the AC as it passes through a "quantum tunneled" wire/outlet assembly that is housed in an expensive plastic box.

I think I remember reading that Jack Bybee used some sort of nano-crystaline ferric dust or something that is supposed to quiet the noise riding on the current.  However stupid it sounds, it is my understanding that this is what they use to quite things down for SONAR.

I thought the "Tesla" (Van de Graaff) video was a nice touch.  It took me straight back to the physics lab in high school.

I also love the way Tesla is so widely embraced now.  I think the Serbs and the Croations would start it up again, fighting over Tesla's origins, if it weren't for the UN presence there.  Anyway, nice to see that his stock is soaring again.

In case anyone wonders, I always flinch when I read this sort of drivvel, which shows (as if there were any doubt) how desparate I am...

Best regards,
Paul S
11-14-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 169
Post ID: 8867
Reply to: 8866
Bybee and QUantum noise
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Paul S wrote:
I think I remember reading that Jack Bybee used some sort of nano-crystaline ferric dust or something that is supposed to quiet the noise riding on the current.  However stupid it sounds, it is my understanding that this is what they use to quite things down for SONAR.
Sorry, I just assumed it would be obvious.  Low level noise is created in SONAR applications due to quantum tunneling effects.  Going back to my miniature golf analogy, it is like noise is leaking through that tunnel at the bottom of the hill. Yes, quantum tunneling CREATES noise.  Bybee's devices act to plug up the hole, in effect.

As far as this other website, with the Tesla coils, two million volts power surges, and quantum tunneling, if you can't figure out how all these seemingly disparate buzzwords fit together, it's actually simply because it is all totally made up marketing BS.

Smile
Adrian
11-14-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 170
Post ID: 8868
Reply to: 8867
But...what if it works anyway???
fiogf49gjkf0d
I don't remember them putting it this way, but maybe the 2 X 106 V pulse blasts a Quantum-Tunnel-less tunnel through the wire/assembly?  How cool would that be?

Whether or not this is the case, I think they should claim it is.  Anyway, they seem to be all over the "lay" of the cables, and all that neat-o stuff...

Sorry, guys; I guess I'm going to have to get outside help (again...)

Money back guarantee?  The cables are a slam dunk!  And I'm sure I can come up with a logical reason to try the AC-helper stuff, too...

(not that I'm desparate)

(oh, yeah.. I already said that...)

One true thing is that they don't have to know what they've done or how they've done it, really, in order for it to be of use.

(not that I'm desparate, or anything...)

Best regards,
Paul S
11-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 171
Post ID: 8986
Reply to: 2931
The el-catastrophe!
fiogf49gjkf0d

Yesterday there was the worst I can remember in my long-lasting with electricity. I mean it was not just bad it was beyond any description. My preamp has 126 steps (near a db per click) and during an average electricity day I listening it at 50-60 slicks. Yesterday at 10 clicks the sound was so loud and so “face hitting” that at the click #12 I experienced a physical pain. The speakers sound in complete mono and I had a feeling that the drivers have lost their suspension. Each channel produced pretty much a single note of 2000Hz-3000Hz – truly amazing. Furthermore, I heard how the diaphragms were resisting sounding – a very strange effect. It sounded like someone scratched the diaphragms with finger nails. It was only at MF channels and I physically heard the sound of deformation of the cones. I initially thought that that what a few days back I was accidently driving my MF Vitavox S2 with unfiltered 300B then I damaged my driver but then I realized that I heard the sound of deformation of my MF cone at… the  left channel – the one that I did not use with during my DHT experiments.

I would sincerely believe that the system is terminally sick if I knew that there was nothing changed in my playback for… days, weeks and month. Today, it sounds near OK, in fact it does sound bad at all. The 12 hour of electricity change – what a difference!

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 172
Post ID: 8991
Reply to: 8986
The Persistence of Memory
fiogf49gjkf0d
What I find especially annoying is that I tend to "remember" the sounds/effects of the various electrical problems, so once I've heard them, I tend to recognize them more often thereafter.  This phenomenon keeps getting brought home to me in one situation after another.

As I have written elsewhere, I have figured out an empirical method of setting VTA, and this has afforded me far more consistent sound, in the mechanical sense.  In fact, the sound has been much better overall, way more often.  At the same time, the electrical problems have gotten more apparent as being just that, and still they are no less pernicious in terms of their effects on the presentation of music.  I am not hearing the (apparent) +/- magnification of slight tracking anomilies to the extent I did before, but the damned BE itself also seems to have a brain and "memory" to +/- mimic the effects.

In other words, the freaking Bad Electricity is not just variable, it is beginning to look/sound like it's as VARIABLE as the sound itself, and perhaps also the Music!

Best regards,
Paul S
11-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,160
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 173
Post ID: 8995
Reply to: 2931
The Audience Adept Response conditioners?
fiogf49gjkf0d

What the hell is it? I truly do not interested what it is all about. It is more or less new company

http://www.audience-av.com/conditioners/

… that for the last 2-3 year made a lot of good noise in the industry. The fun part is that they never made any specific comments what they do in their conditioners and when people on their behave make some claims then the claims sound very bogus. Sure a lot of people say positive things about the sound of Adept Response conditioners but it means shit to me, not to mention that in their positive subjective comment about the positive benefits of Adept Response’s contribution I see a lot of contradictions (among what I have read)

The Audience Adept Response has good press but it hardly has anything to do with sound. That only means that the guys who run marketing for Audience know how to kiss the right assess sand to butter up right people. To promote a power conditioners that has it’s operation sponsored by Harry Pearson is similar to wire an application to a kibbutz and to have Adolf Hitler as your reference…

I do not make any negative comments about Audience Adept Response unit – I never had them, never heard them, I feel curios about them but at the same time I am a bit disappointed with expertise of analyses those units were exposed to, at least publicly available. Does anybody can point out me to the description of how those conditioners work? In the case of power devises I do not need people tell me about sound of the devises – I do not believe them anyhow. I would like to know what is done, how is done and being kind of evolved user myself I would make my own estimated how interesting it might be.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 174
Post ID: 9000
Reply to: 8995
Taking the Best Case (and making the worst of it)
fiogf49gjkf0d
Taking only the end results into consideration, and looking backward from there, the best sound I've gotten so far has been when the regular old electricity is at its best.  And despite my continual worrying about "problems" stemming from inter-component crosstalk, variable ground impedance, common mode noise, RFI and EMI, the fact is that I have not really been all that conscious of these other issues when the wall power is very good.  And this despite the sad fact that I am presently usiing a single, non-dedicated line for the hi-fi (although I do have a dedicated hi-fi-only ground).

So, if I actually focus, it seems like and "adequate for the whole system" power regenerator alone should do the trick, without all the additional "conditioning" and "isolation" that so far has proven to be a mixed bag at best and a can of worms at worst.

Reading along with the regenerator manufacturers, they often cite their desires to overcome large size, weight and heat as reasons for their latest "solutions" to power regeneration, as if we psychos care about that.  And this makes me wonder if perhaps the technology to do what needs doing is already developed but it was tossed aside because it was judged to be "too heavy" or "too hot" during operation?

But, naturally, I can't even be happy with a theoretical solution.  Rather, being of a restless mind, I am now wondering what I would hear if the electricity were somehow good for an extended period of time.  I have disclosed previously that I actually get giddy, and likley I am not too sharp, when the power suddenly snaps to.  If I had some time to calm down, would I start to hear effects from all the other electrical +/- "self-problems" I "know" exisit?

Best regards,
Paul S
11-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
serenechaos
lost alamos
Posts 86
Joined on 12-01-2007

Post #: 175
Post ID: 9001
Reply to: 9000
Vertex AQ
fiogf49gjkf0d

Anyone familiar with these? http://www.vertexaq.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/ 
I heard a demo @ RMAF; without, with, without again... 
Very effective. 
In that place, At that time, with that system, etc.  

Part of it is about electrical problem, part about vibrations getting into electrical components. 
I did try the "listen to end of wire through stethoscope while rubbing with penny, hear horrible scratchy noise, change to their wire with "magic box" and the noise went away." 
How that could affect SOUND, I don't really know, don't know if I buy all their explanation, but it sure made a huge difference. 

The typical bad electricity/good electricity difference, so I thought I'd mention it here, even though I don't understand what I heard... 

Robert

Page 7 of 77 (1,917 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 5 6 7 8 9 » ... Last »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  175376  05-28-2004
  »  New  Always check power-line polarity...  The Cost of Knowing...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     11  112495  07-10-2005
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  925478  02-16-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  265037  04-30-2007
  »  New  Musique Concrete horns..  These are now sold as Kornhent products...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  108337  06-12-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  163704  07-12-2007
  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  Moray James SPDIF!...  Didital Things  Forum     27  230858  09-28-2007
  »  New  Metal domes..  Try the one Lansche is using...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  79041  11-08-2007
  »  New  The power AC Outlets?..  Where to Pick Up the Gong?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  43223  10-31-2008
  »  New  The Avicenna's failure is the great Avicenna success!..  New life for Avicenna...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  84053  02-03-2009
  »  New  Internet and electricity..  Suboptimal. . ....  Didital Things  Forum     1  29375  01-07-2010
  »  New  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements..  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  16702  03-30-2010
  »  New  Another example of energy..  Tehran 230v...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1916  9958080  01-29-2011
  »  New  I good spot-light for a turntable?..  Reply...  Analog Playback Forum     15  154839  10-24-2010
Home Page  |  Last 24Hours  | Search  |  SiteMap  | Questions or Problems | Copyright Note
The content of all messages within the Forums Copyright © by authors of the posts