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07-25-2017 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,671
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 1
Post ID: 23341
Reply to: 23341
Hypex for ULF?
More and more I am running across applications for the Hypex digital amps, which seem to be mostly plate amps.   Does this stuff have a place in high-demands systems?  Could it replace giant coils?  It is no secret that almost all "pros" went this way a long time ago, including the vast majority of recording, mixing and mastering studios, not to mention all sound at all theaters and stadiums, etc., including many concert halls, where we hear sound "live".  No, I don't think the system's popularity means it sounds good in a high-demands home system.  However, it does mean that lots of people have tried it by now. So, does this work for ULF?


Best regards,
Paul S
07-25-2017 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 2
Post ID: 23342
Reply to: 23341
Cessaro bass horns.
Paul S,

Cessaro use plate amplifiers in theirs "bass horns". I do not know if they are made by Hypex (I think I already saw "Made in Poland" in one of theirs amplifiers) but if you find someone around with a Cessaro you could experience it.

EDIT: a better photo but of their field coil power supply.

Cheers!


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
07-25-2017 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,671
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 3
Post ID: 23343
Reply to: 23342
"Programmable" DSP
The thing I'm fishing is not the plate amp part but the "programmable" DSP married to the Class D for ULF.  I've actually heard this a lot, but never in a high-demands, home system where I could seriously "target" the implementation for a reasonable amount of time.  Was hoping someone else here has more experience and something to say about it.

Best regards,
Paul S
07-26-2017 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
kodomo
Posts 69
Joined on 06-20-2015
Post #: 4
Post ID: 23344
Reply to: 23341
Hypex user here
I use hypex amp on my tapped horn (so ULF) and it is great. I use a plate version specifically built for sub duties. It has a 18db filter as well as a rotary phase knob which comes in handy! I have had no problems, and can not say its doing anything wrong. I use it for sub 40hz for about roughly one octave. 
For class D amps, Hypex builds very good modules. There are 8000+usd amps using their modules inside...
07-26-2017 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,671
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 5
Post ID: 23345
Reply to: 23344
Digital Filters
Thanks for responding.  You mention a rotary phase knob.  Is this ULF system connected through a digital processor?  If yes, will you expand on DSP effects on sound and system integration with the DSP?  Many "pros" use these filters to "handle" speaker/room issues, as well, and I am also inquiring about this practice as it might apply to high-demands home systems. Again, I am starting with ULF, since it has not seemed to be a weak link in the systems I've heard it in.

Best regards,
Paul S
07-26-2017 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 6
Post ID: 23346
Reply to: 23345
Theta Prometeus.
Paul,

I just found out the Prometheus, from Theta Digital, uses (custom?) Hypex. I believe it should be easy for you to find one at your place.

EDIT: may also interest you: here

Cheers!


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
07-27-2017 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
kodomo
Posts 69
Joined on 06-20-2015
Post #: 7
Post ID: 23349
Reply to: 23345
No dsp
Paul, there is no dsp. Mine is just a hypex subwoofer ds series plate amp having the hypex ucd180 module inside. There were bigger and more powerful ones having the ucd400 or the ucd800. I think they may have stopped manufacturing this line actually.

I did not need room correction. I worked on the room placement and had good results. I do not need dsp or extra eq ing. It does have an eq with boost on board as well that I never I use. It can be adjusted from 0db to 6db and in between 20hz to 50hz.

The crossover is adjustable from 30hz to 120hz (18db) and there is another subsonic filter at 12hz (24db).
07-27-2017 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,671
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 8
Post ID: 23351
Reply to: 23349
LF Boost and Contour
Sounds like you have your system in your room the way you want it.  I am looking for a ULF solution that has some flexibility, something I can use in a different room later without starting over.  I've been thinking for some time about DSP for ULF.  It's no good hearing it in a studio, where the only "good" thing about the sound is that it is "integrated", top to bottom, and - of course -  the sound at shows and salons is all over the place.  Obviously, since drivers are not flat to 20 Hz, something needs to be done, and the usual approach involves  exponential power increase as the frequency drops, and moving things around.  ULF circuits add phase correction.  Room and system integration issues make the "simulations" and any attempts at build and play mere pipe dreams.  It is still unknown to me if "digital" ULF can be used in an otherwise-integrated, high-demands hi-fi.  Another "problem" is, most people who are OK with DSP for ULF either use it across the board, or they use streaming sources.  These are "interesting" times in hi-fi, for sure.


Best regards
Paul S
07-28-2017 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 454
Joined on 07-05-2012
Post #: 9
Post ID: 23352
Reply to: 23351
DSP no panacea
You have to consider the latency in DSP ULF solutions (regardless of filter settings). It is considerable and if the rest of the system is phase aligned, there may be some problems in location of the ULF drivers.
 Paul S wrote:
Sounds like you have your system in your room the way you want it.  I am looking for a ULF solution that has some flexibility, something I can use in a different room later without starting over.  I've been thinking for some time about DSP for ULF.  It's no good hearing it in a studio, where the only "good" thing about the sound is that it is "integrated", top to bottom, and - of course -  the sound at shows and salons is all over the place.  Obviously, since drivers are not flat to 20 Hz, something needs to be done, and the usual approach involves  exponential power increase as the frequency drops, and moving things around.  ULF circuits add phase correction.  Room and system integration issues make the "simulations" and any attempts at build and play mere pipe dreams.  It is still unknown to me if "digital" ULF can be used in an otherwise-integrated, high-demands hi-fi.  Another "problem" is, most people who are OK with DSP for ULF either use it across the board, or they use streaming sources.  These are "interesting" times in hi-fi, for sure.


Best regards
Paul S


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
07-28-2017 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,671
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 10
Post ID: 23353
Reply to: 23352
Pick Your Poison
I'm not sure how or even whether the DSP latency +/- correlates to "typical" ULF phase/delay/contour issues that must be "dealt with" in any case, for power relegation and system integration.  It's not exactly, specifically relevant, but I have heard the large Emerald Physics OB speakers, which - I think - used DSP to correct the low end.  While this does not "prove" anything to me, neither did hearing it immediately rule it out.  I remain curious, and I will ask a pro sound friend about it when he gets home from his present road tour.  If nothing else, I'm pretty sure he will understand the basics.  Obviously, this thread is a fishing expedition; but a lot of people visit this site, and some of them are pretty smart, so hope yet springs.


Best regards,
Paul S
06-20-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 11
Post ID: 24940
Reply to: 23353
Barefoot Sound.
Paul,
May be of your interest to hear some 'Barefoot Sound' monitors. They are using Hypex amplification for subs, like on the MiniMain12.

There should not be difficult to find a Barefoot dealer in US.

Yeah, they are pro-audio but high-demands systems. :-)


Cheers!


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
06-22-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,671
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 12
Post ID: 24941
Reply to: 24940
Size Matters
A brief search for the Barefoot Sound speakers suggests that it is very important to the designer that the speakers be compact, which (if they are actually acceptable in terms of sound) might be a boon to apartment dwellers, students, teens, etc.  For me, this, in and of itself, imposes serious, unnecessary (for me) problems for ULF, which is the topic of this board.  I also look first to paper for cones, would need a lot of convincing to go with aluminum.


Best regards,Paul 
06-22-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 13
Post ID: 24942
Reply to: 24941
I never heard.
I never heard anything from Barefoot but studio people usually swear on they products, what means nothing to our audio interest but can be a indication.

Also, these MiniMain12 and the MasterStack12 are not really small things.

At least they do not SHAKE the table when playing. hehe

Btw, I thought you were looking to build something using Hypex and not a commercial product, and were looking for ''examples'.


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
06-22-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,671
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 14
Post ID: 24943
Reply to: 24942
Examples that "Work"
Well, I hope to find promising ULF coming from a DSP/Hypex set up.  I just didn't hear it yet.  As ever, I hate DIY, and I will only build my own if I have to.


Best regards,
Paul S
07-09-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
kane
Posts 1
Joined on 07-10-2018
Post #: 15
Post ID: 24962
Reply to: 23341
Hypex
I have recently started using the Hypex modules and was blown away by the quality of the sound, absolutely fantastic, so I am very surprised to hear that in the opinion of one guy on another forum reckons that this amplifier is better than Hypex. I honestly thought you couldn't get anything better.
If this is in fact true,Hypex has a real problem on their hands. It beats them hands down on price. Compere - CD-NX200 at £32 as against the Hypex at over £100. It's a no-brainer.
07-10-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,671
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 16
Post ID: 24963
Reply to: 24962
Hype-ex No-Brainer
There has to be a way to re-tag these taggers so they take the infection back home with them, like ant poison. 
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