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09-17-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #: 1876
Post ID: 26901
Reply to: 26900
Custom UPS
For anyone interested, this is a German company that is specialized in custom, purpose built UPSes.
https://www.jovyatlas.de/



Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
09-20-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rickmcinnis
Posts 59
Joined on 10-18-2010

Post #: 1877
Post ID: 26902
Reply to: 26900
LiFePo is the key to this working very welll
Got the "proper" batteries installed.

Left them on the charger about an hour - voltage read 13.3 out of the box and never changed with an hour of charging.

This morning after an evening of charging they read 13.4.  The AGM wouild read 13.5 fully charged so maybe these take ahilw to fill up to the brim.

Starting off last night at 13.3 after two and one-half hours they read 12.6 volts.  The AGM would have been in the 11.6 range at that point in time. If not lower - I did not record the voltage.

So it seems that five hours of listening time is likely.  I do not listen for that length of time very often so it will be awhile before I can verify that.

The sound might be more dynamic with the LiFePo since the music sounded louder with these batteries.  I started with the same piece of music I finished off with the night before with no changes in volume.  In fact it seemed too loud so I reduced the level two dB.  So either there is more dynamic range due to these batteries or they are adding an obnoxious sound to the music that makes one want to turn the volume down.  I hope the latter is not the case but only more listening will answer that question.
09-20-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,591
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1878
Post ID: 26903
Reply to: 26902
Time to Enjoy Some Music!
Congratulations, Rick. May your new batteries live strong and long. My storage spaces are crammed with wrong, superceded, and experimental hi-fi gear, including many dead SLA batteries I used in series to power a field coil driver. Gotta round those up and dispose of them conscientiously. You can probably sell your other batteries on CraigsList or maybe even US Audio Mart, ... if they're priced low enough. Let them sit too long and they will be worthless.

Does your smart charger have a sensor or isome way to "profile" a charge, to particularly accomodate your new batteries?



Best regards,
Paul S
09-20-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rickmcinnis
Posts 59
Joined on 10-18-2010

Post #: 1879
Post ID: 26904
Reply to: 26903
One can enjoy listening much better without a clock ticking down
I will be able to relax not worrying about the state of the batteries.

The charger I use has three modes for charging that ends with a 13.5 volts float.  It was made for LiFePo batteries but would work with AGM.

I topped off the AGMs and my sister is going to put them on some site she uses in hopes of selling them.  If I could get one-half of what I paid for i would be grateful.

I feel bad about owning a product of child labor - not that I am Mr. Wonderful by any means, but there is no question this technology is quite impressive.  Fifty pounds of battery that embarrasses the 140 pounds they have replaced - with fqar great er energy and a longer life.

My only regret is that Schultz had not been more emphatic when he recommended the LiFePo.

I am sure your audio garage is far more interesting than mine. I do have a horrible time throwing things away.  Not much good at selling stuff either.  Every day I think about who would get stuck cleaning up my audio mess if i was to die before i could clean it up myself.
09-26-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rickmcinnis
Posts 59
Joined on 10-18-2010

Post #: 1880
Post ID: 26906
Reply to: 26904
Voltage constancy
One interesting thing about the inverter/battery is the constant AC voltage.

My voltage is 122 volts 99% of the time with only a toggle up on the odd occasion and a toggle down on an even odder occasion.

Since very few of us have power amplifiers with regulated power supplies for the output stage - I know I have never owned one - one wonders if one large advantage of doing this is this, almost, constant voltage?  Don't know what i did to change the font.

I do not doubt this has been discussed before. 


Would be interesting to hear if one can get by with simpler power supplies with this almost constant AC line voltage?  Could regulators be replaced by good old chokes?  I guess most folks would not want the weight.

09-26-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,591
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1881
Post ID: 26907
Reply to: 26906
The Sound of Music
Rick, good question. Probably few people at this forum think seriously about power supplies; you might get more answers on DIY forum. Of course, the only thing we care about is our experiences with the Music, however that happens, which certainly does not preclude developing "good sounding" power supplies, but this seems to requiire a lot of rigor, and pretty good ideas about what one is listening to, in the first place. Putting anything "outside" the personal experiences of the listener makes it just an excercise, rather than a means to a Musical end. Again, I have yet to hear a "totally corrected", pro-type set-up making Music I want to listen to. Outside of that, my interest wanes. 

Best regards,
Paul S
09-26-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rickmcinnis
Posts 59
Joined on 10-18-2010

Post #: 1882
Post ID: 26908
Reply to: 26907
Doing it yourself since there is no other choice
I know the proprietor despises cheap DIY and I do, too.  DIY should be a response to not being satisfied with what the market offers - not a cheap way to have something to listen to.

All the while his system stands as a pinnacle of what one man can do for himself.  So I thought there was a bit of interest in what makes sound musical.

No one needs another DIYAudio - one is plenty.  Not to say it does not have a place.

There seems to be be some tinkerers here.  I have read of people building Romy's phono corrector circuit, amplifiers and takes inspired by the speaker system.

Unless they have all gone away. 
09-26-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,591
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1883
Post ID: 26909
Reply to: 26908
Application
Big differences between PS in my giant amps and my DAC, my passive attenuator and my phono stage, TT. PS has to be "good enough" for the application. Maybe "reverse engineered" from the demands end requirements (ie, the mind of the listener). Throw those out there. What are you after? Cheap or expensive, DIY as an end in itself, electronics, specs, does not get much traction around here. Ironically, some of the best ideas on this entire site are buried in long-winded discussions about all sorts of things... other than DIY.

Best regards,
Paul S
09-26-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rickmcinnis
Posts 59
Joined on 10-18-2010

Post #: 1884
Post ID: 26910
Reply to: 26909
I was speaking of amplifier output stages, generally
Unless they are quite unusual I doubt your amplifier's output stage uses regulated supplies.

My point was that PUREPOWER/Inverters, etc. deliver a far more constant AC voltage than the line and that this could be a  reason people find them to be useful.  They have stabilized the voltage on the output stage. I assume most high quality amplifiers these days are employing voltage regulation on the input stage/s.  Though the MELQUAIDES amplifier has no voltage regulation other than chokes and resistors and I safely assume it is a very fine sounding amplifier.  But I would wonder, without PUREPOWER as the source of its AC, would its sound be compromised by more than AC junk but by the inconstancy of the voltage?

I went from there to speculate that this same quality might allow one to NOT use regulators which can mess up the sound compared to good old chokes.  At least in audio lore this is the case and is quite obvious when one is speaking of three terminal regulators.

Would a constant AC line voltage negate the need for complicated regulators in ;pw level voltage amplification circuits?  Have no feel for how this could affect a digital circuit.

To end, I must admit I am not quite sure what you are saying but hope the above clarifies what I intended to say.

09-26-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,591
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1885
Post ID: 26911
Reply to: 26910
To Listen and To Hear Is To Learn
The bitch is, it takes so long to work through everything in your own system; but that's basically what it takes. If you go DSET system, like Melq, you may well be years away from getting it all up and running. And even once you are happy with your results, you might not have a full understanding of what exactly  "works" where, and why. I am not trying to be difficult, just not able to meaningfully answer in the abstract.

For input, I think "everyone uses chokes"...

The other classic hi-fi joke concerns new problems introduced by better fill-in-the-blank.


Best regards,
Paul S
10-22-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 302
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1886
Post ID: 26914
Reply to: 26911
Energy Storage , Battery vs Flywheels

Is there any body who used Flywheel power to supply UPS/Inverter?
https://www.piller.com/en-GB/183/energy-storage


10-24-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rickmcinnis
Posts 59
Joined on 10-18-2010

Post #: 1887
Post ID: 26922
Reply to: 26914
That is intriguing
But batteries are much simpler!

I would think those things make more than some noise so a remote location would be required which would make long AC lines a necessity.

I can see large installation making good use of this but not for most audio systems,

I guess this is basically a generator with a flywheel?  I did not see an obvious link to how it works. 

Once spun up how long would it remain spinning?  Would a heavy load drag it down quicker?  It would have to.  Is the motor to get it up to speed always on or does it cycle on and off?

My GIANDEL inverter has been working now for almost three months - it is silent in operation and keeps the AC at 123 v0olts +- 1 volt. More like +- 1/2 volt.

I got another smaller one to power the computer stuff since no one wanted my AGM batteries.  I do think there is an improvement with the computer powered by an inverter.

No question the AC line is detrimental to getting good sound from your system.  I thought i was blessed with good AC and now I realize no one is blessed with good AC.  One of those things that once you have learned to appreciate what it is doing you cannot listen without it.

10-24-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 302
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1888
Post ID: 26923
Reply to: 26922
Piller UPS
Piller UPS generate AC power but use Flywheel storage instead of battery

https://library.industrialsolutions.abb.com/publibrary/checkout/DEA-642?TNR=Brochures%7CDEA-642%7CPDF&filename=DEA-642.pdf


https://www.activepower.com/en-GB
12-29-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 302
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1889
Post ID: 27051
Reply to: 26923
ABB UPS (PowerValue 31/11T 20 kVA 18,000W)

Because of Purepower 3000 power was not enough for my high power ss system then I bought an ABB 18KW UPS.

Both APC and ABB are popular and my friend used APC and the sound of APC was not good and I choosed ABB to test between Wall AC and ABB.


ABB from Switzerland produce high quality UPS and last week I have listened to one of them (ABB 20KVA model) in my system.

After break-in process I have connected different parallel loads (500w, 4000w, 5700w) to ABB UPS to view what happen to sound quality.


ABB UPS vs Wall AC Power (when wall AC is good) :

ABB is like high power low impedance Mark Levinson Amplifier : clean but Compress , thin and damaged harmonics.

Wall AC power (when AC is good) is like Zero feedback good Amplifier : Rich Harmonic, dynamic and better more 3D Image


ABB has no limits in current delivery (18,000W , 100A) and it has superb jump and attack but no decay no harmonic no life in music.

you can feel the compression of sound when the ABB in online.


I do not know but I guess most UPS and Inverters like ABB , APC , ... use feedback to regulate voltage and their sound reminds me bad Computer playbacks.


Purepower is like bragin and If Richard had a 30,000VA purepower then I was his first customer. I told richard if he can help me to design a high power Purepower but I think it is not possible to him.


Totally I think no UPS in this market is good for sound.


In the next step I will go for testing Kevin power System. 12v battery + 6 parallel Victron Energy (total 18000VA).


If Victron will not be good then I will go for delicated 20/000v to 380v transformer .





02-01-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #: 1890
Post ID: 27054
Reply to: 27051
High impedance.
UPSes are (by default) high impedance devices, you need add means to deal with it. Or buy a custom made one...



Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
02-04-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,591
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1891
Post ID: 27055
Reply to: 27054
"Custom Made"
Alex, do we know yet whether it's "corrected electricity" or some sort of dither that works the treat for hi-fi sound? From all I've read here, and from my own experience, "corrected" electricity can still have sonic problems via a hi-fi, and the output traces of the local favorite, the PP 3000, are pulsed square waves.


Best regards,
Paul S
02-05-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 302
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1892
Post ID: 27056
Reply to: 27055
ABB 100A
Both ABB 20KVA UPS and Pure Power 3000 are IGBT transformerless UPS and the AC output of them is not perfect Sinusoidal .like Pure Power the ABB is also sensitive to AC quality.

ABB 20KVA UPS does not isolate Neutral line but the Pure power 3000 isolate Neutral Line.   
the Wall AC input Resistance (in my home) is less than 0.15 ohm.
What I learned from "ABB UPS vs Wall AC" is : 
 1- my Main AC is very polluted 
 2- my Main AC is Slow/Lagging in Complex/fast Music 
 3- My Main AC is less Transparent/Clean 
 4- My Main AC has DC offset (Line DC voltage make the Power Transformer to buzz) 
 

ABB UPS is not good for dynamics and harmonics and It has two main problems :  
1- It compress the sound at mid/high frequency , It is similar to signal clipping (like pre-amplifier clip DAC signal, for example DAC output is 7 volts and max input voltage of pre-amplifier is 4volts). if you put compress records then you feel UPS is not so bad but when you put dynamic records the UPS will degrade the sound more.     (for example handel furore joyce didonato)                             
 
2- Harmonics are damaged and the sound is not velvet and beautiful and it reminds me the bad/noisy Computer playback 

the Pure Power 3000 does not have those problems and I love it.
I have convinced the high quality low impedance AC Power will change all transparent audio systems by huge margin.AC quality is the biggest factor for my system.
most high power SS amplifiers need over 30A clean power , it means we need over 20KVA UPS for sound. no company produce it for Audiophiles.

02-12-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 442
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 1893
Post ID: 27058
Reply to: 27056
Wrong questions lead to wrong answers
We have no proof what a UPS does. Intellectually, we are attracted to the separation of wall AC and our hifi. Unfortunately, that is obviously NOT the problem as too many real time UPS still sound "bad".

The next intellectual assumption is that our HiFi needs sine waves and this also has NEVER been able to have been proven.

Then we have battery driven stereo - again with the same myths and problems!

Now we have an assumption that AC supply impedance is the issue - Do we want to bet that we still have the same problems?


My opinion is that if a device sounds bad on bad electricity days, that device is bad - not the AC supply. The best that we can hope for is to change our listening times where the AC supply is supposedly not as corrupted (also an assumption). 


We need to demand that our amps and preamps as well as sources are properly built for the environments where they are typically used. I find threads like these are totally useless as we have no process for defining better - rather only the typical "high end" BS terminology. Do I care if Amir suffers? No. In my opinion, he needs a better process, not more gear.





Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
02-12-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,591
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1894
Post ID: 27059
Reply to: 27058
Palliative Results
 Sure, it would be nice to get repeatable results because one knows what to treat and how to treat it. But didn't most PP users at GSC simply fall back on, "it sounds better"? The reasons I never bought one are: 1) I don't trust PP as a company to actually deliver a "properly functioning" unit. 2). I have very large and powerful amplifiers. Back to 1), basically, I'm just not up for a $4k crap shoot, especially in the face of all the evidence gathered in this thread here at GSC. I put "properly functioning" in quotes because who cares if PP says it works correctly if it doesn't improve on my own electricity problems?


Best regards,
Paul S
02-13-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 302
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1895
Post ID: 27060
Reply to: 27059
Non-linear audio systems
Rowuk
I have fully read all pages of this topic (mad mad mad electricity) two times and I know good sound does not come from pure sinewave .I should say I am here (like a student) to learn more and I do not like spread my in-complete BS ideas here.
I remember Romy compared an ideal transformerless IGBT AC regenerator (it had better Voltage Sinenave than Pure power) to Pure Power and the Pure Power was better sounding. I trust Romy and his judgment in Audio.I also know CEC TL0 output digital square wave is far from ideal.I am electronics engineer and all we read in university was about linear systems (constant coefficient for all 4 Maxwell equations) but the trust is the Audio systems are not linear systems and also our hearing system is not linear.
if you look at linear models both horns and tubes are not ideal but in real world we hear best sound from properly designed horn/tubes . It means Audio is a Complex Subject and improving sound is not easy task. I remember Romy wrote even Richard (owner of Pure Power) does not know why Pure Power is good. 
listening to ABB 20KVA UPS proved me the Pure Power 3000+ has not enough power and the test result was interesting to me. about importance of low impedance AC Supply I have not enough experience to prove it but with my limited experience every thing that increased the impedance (resistance ohm) then I loosed Bass and attack. both Isolation Transformer and long high impedance AC cable between AC panel and my equipments both degraded the bass and attack.



   
  
 rowuk wrote:


My opinion is that if a device sounds bad on bad electricity days, that device is bad - not the AC supply. The best that we can hope for is to change our listening times where the AC supply is supposedly not as corrupted (also an assumption). 


We need to demand that our amps and preamps as well as sources are properly built for the environments where they are typically used. I find threads like these are totally useless as we have no process for defining better - rather only the typical "high end" BS terminology. Do I care if Amir suffers? No. In my opinion, he needs a better process, not more gear.






  I am not Audio Designer and have little knowledge about proper Power Supply design for DAC/Pre/Power and ...My limited experience tell me "if a PSU is less sensitive to AC quality then the dynamics are more compress".
I think (or it is better to say I guess) in non-linear systems (like Audio systems) we can not solve AC quality problem by designing a filter in PSU and It is better to Generate good AC Power. It means in non-linear Systems every part should be ok and we should not solve the problem of Part A in Part B.

I have asked some audio companies to design a high power AC regenerator but they told me it has costs. the only way is a smart designer start designing a AC regenerator and send his product to trusted expert beta testers like Romy.
02-20-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 302
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1896
Post ID: 27061
Reply to: 4487
Earth is not necessary for all Audio Equipments
 RF at Ona wrote:

Romy and friends,

Reading about the sensitivity of your system to electrical power supply problems reminds me of the days when I used to make my own equipment as much for the learning experience as for the final result.

One of the mundane things I learned is that standard audio equipment, including shielded cable connections, did not (and possibly still does not) follow good GROUNDING practice. You connect the stuff in the usual way and you are bound for problems.

The sensitivity of your low-level equipment, the success of using battery supplies on some sources and the inability of line filters and conditioners to alleviate the problems without causing other problems suggests that you might look again at the grounding in your system.

Remember, a grounding problem does not always result in hum or any noise in the absence of signal. Grounding problems are dynamic and disturb the signal and so can masquerade as or exacerbate a power supply problem.

At the risk of stating the obvious and trivial to experienced practitioners:
  1) Cable shields should be grounded at only ONE END, otherwise you are providing multiple ground connections between pieces of equipment.
  2) The single cable shield connection should be connected to the internal central ground point by wire not by chassis. Usually, the cable shields must be disconnected at one device's connector.
  3) Sometimes, one cable shield of a stereo pair is connected at both ends to make the ground connection between devices but this is not as desirable as a single separate wire for grounding each device to an external central ground (STAR grounding instead of cascaded grounding). Remember a cable shield is intended to reduce noise, not carry signal or ground.
  4) The system as a whole should be carefully grounded. Sometimes household grounds are inferior and a high-quality separate connection to a good outside ground is needed (a subject in itself).
  5) You may have a stray voltage problem.
  6) Your audio system might benefit from a dedicated power line, isolated from other household appliances.
  7) If you live in an apartment building consider moving.

Grounding, so basic and simple, can be a subtle and tricky thing. It is important but cannot be perfect and therefore always suspect. The more problems that involve the low-level equipment the more I would suspect faulty grounding and shielding at least as a contributing factor. It should be obvious that the more extensive the system the more likely the problems.

On the other hand, where grounding turns out not to be much of a problem, I wonder if the new high voltage battery technology used in hybrid cars might be useful at least for the true audio obsessive.

Regards,
Robert


I remember Romy lifted earth wire and floated his system some years ago.

all of My system CD/Pre/Power are isolated from earth wire, it means by factory default all AC input plugs have two pins (only Line and Neutral) not three pins.

all chassises are floated and there is no ground loop across AC cables. 

I have connected one of the chassis to earth wire but dynamics decreased. the best sound come from my system when the earth is lifted.

It seems the earth wire is not necessary for all audio systems. 




02-20-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 442
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 1897
Post ID: 27062
Reply to: 27061
You can pay with your life if the earth wire is lifted.
The whole idea of an earth wire is a path to ground if something fails in the unit. In most countries the (metal) case is attached to this pin on the power connector.
It is incredibly stupid (and in many countries illegal) to lift the earth wire and provide no path for saving your life. That is different than not wanting to use the earth in the power receptacle.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
02-20-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,591
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1898
Post ID: 27063
Reply to: 27061
Grounding vs. Neutral... again
All that has been discussed at length many times this board. It seems that people continue to confuse neutral and ground, and I agree that it is confusing. Basically, any commercial "power company" power grid supply in the US will be grounded at a service entrance breaker box, and all neutral and also any ground wires will be routed literally to ground near the service box. Again, the neutral (typically white) wire between the component and the wall outlet IS connected to the service ground. A ground wire, so-called, is to ground "stray current". Ideally, "properly made" components are star grounded, so they not only do not need a ground wire, but using the ground wire can cause a ground loop. As for grounding cable shields, I just go with what "works". In an all-balanced system, everything is grounded.



Best regards,
Paul S
02-20-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 302
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1899
Post ID: 27064
Reply to: 27062
Yes Sure
 rowuk wrote:
The whole idea of an earth wire is a path to ground if something fails in the unit. In most countries the (metal) case is attached to this pin on the power connector.
It is incredibly stupid (and in many countries illegal) to lift the earth wire and provide no path for saving your life. That is different than not wanting to use the earth in the power receptacle.

Sure, you are right , 230 volts is very dangrous
I hope it never happen to me, my pre has a connection and I can connect it to the earth.In remember old audio products from japan had no earth wire.Now all audio equipments have safety earth connection but some of them like FM have break switch at back of amplifier if i am not mistaken.This switch disconnect/connect the earth connection. FM wrote about it
https://amiraudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/TB_05-R2.pdf


 Paul S wrote:
All that has been discussed at length many times this board. It seems that people continue to confuse neutral and ground, and I agree that it is confusing. Basically, any commercial "power company" power grid supply in the US will be grounded at a service entrance breaker box, and all neutral and also any ground wires will be routed literally to ground near the service box. Again, the neutral (typically white) wire between the component and the wall outlet IS connected to the service ground. A ground wire, so-called, is to ground "stray current". Ideally, "properly made" components are star grounded, so they not only do not need a ground wire, but using the ground wire can cause a ground loop. As for grounding cable shields, I just go with what "works". In an all-balanced system, everything is grounded.



Best regards,
Paul S


PaulSure , I know it .What makes ground loop problem is more than one path and when we connect all ac cables to earth we will have ground loops.

Two thing alter the sound after a week or 10 days , 1- Ground loops and 2- magnetizing (specially in cheap digital transport and dac)I prefer to have no ground loop in my system

Most stereo systems have minimum one ground loop because of two stereo chanel will have ground loop between DAC and pre. Some think ground loop between DAC and pre is not important but I think it is important
02-21-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 442
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 1900
Post ID: 27065
Reply to: 27064
And now we are back to my premise that high end audio is simply miserably designed!
 rowuk wrote:
The whole idea of an earth wire is a path to ground if something fails in the unit. In most countries the (metal) case is attached to this pin on the power connector.
It is incredibly stupid (and in many countries illegal) to lift the earth wire and provide no path for saving your life. That is different than not wanting to use the earth in the power receptacle.
Sure, you are right , 230 volts is very dangrous
I hope it never happen to me, my pre has a connection and I can connect it to the earth.In remember old audio products from japan had no earth wire.Now all audio equipments have safety earth connection but some of them like FM have break switch at back of amplifier if i am not mistaken.This switch disconnect/connect the earth connection. FM wrote about it
https://amiraudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/TB_05-R2.pdf


If the power supply and case are correctly wired and grounded, we have no ground loop issue. If one device is designed badly, the whole chain can have issues. That does not make grounding bad - it makes the terribly designed devices dangerous. Electricity  from the grid is carried by a hot wire and a neutral wire. The case around an audio product should NEVER be connected to hot or neutral. We should have cases around our gear capable of shielding the circuits from RF. A real ground will provide a path for any stray interference away from the audio signal.

I also insist that audio devices that are "extremely" sensitive to "bad electricity" are simply badly designed. This is where we have proof that the equipment designers are not considering the use cases where the devices will be used. The engineering capabilities are there. We have so many use cases in manufacturing and medicine where proper isolation is critical


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
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