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   Home » Off Air Audio» Sansui TU-X1 Broadcast monitor. (57 posts, 3 pages)
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  »  New  The ultimate buffer – light in the end of a tunnel..  A few minor corrections...  Audio Discussions  Forum     36  322255  04-28-2005
  »  New  Where the FM quality comes from?..  Freaking ridicules…...  Off Air Audio Forum     22  153842  11-02-2005
  »  New  How to record FM broadcasts...  Left to center...  Off Air Audio Forum     125  911100  11-04-2005
  »  New  Align your FM tuners!..  The Munich technician?...  Off Air Audio Forum     7  73947  03-27-2006
  »  New  K-Stereo Ambience Recovery Processor..  Peter's UpperBass + K-Stereo Files....  Didital Things  Forum     29  221074  10-04-2007
  »  New  Antenna solutions for FM..  Hurricane Irene ibn Oz in Boston...  Off Air Audio Forum     27  155413  02-21-2008
  »  New  Where are our good Tuners?..  Ok, it did clear the things up....  Off Air Audio Forum     43  332523  03-31-2008
  »  New  Kenwood L-02T and the hype of FM tuners..  Good reception...inferior Sound...  Off Air Audio Forum     2  56356  04-25-2008
  »  New  The FM Stereo and Multiplex MPX decoders..  The new life of Rohde & Schwarz decoder....  Off Air Audio Forum     12  126403  05-02-2008
  »  New  Rohde & Schwarz EU-6201 Tuner..  The Schwarz runs from crystal oscillator!...  Off Air Audio Forum     34  291050  05-07-2008
  »  New  Tuners and digital noise from DAW, A/D and D/A..  Beter installation + more ferrete...  Off Air Audio Forum     10  92120  07-20-2008
  »  New  A tube tuner? REL Precedent 646C..  REL Precedent Report...  Off Air Audio Forum     24  218128  07-28-2008
  »  New  TU-X1 setup..  State of the live broadcast...  Off Air Audio Forum     16  113877  09-06-2008
  »  New  Sansui AU-X1 bomb.....  Sansui AU-X1 bomb......  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  13474  03-25-2009
  »  New  Forward in the past with old radios...  Kitchen radio as a source of immense pleasure....  Off Air Audio Forum     18  124774  01-21-2011
12-17-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,733
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 51
Post ID: 25713
Reply to: 25712
...and we shopuld never forget this....
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=7867#7867


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-18-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 496
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 52
Post ID: 25714
Reply to: 25711
More on X1
Hi guys,
Thank you for the comments. I'm a complete newbie to RF, long learning curve ahead.
1) Antenna - My guiding was Romy's finding (backed by Dima) that this tuner is easily overdriven with too strong an antenna signal. So I though that since I'm only 3km straight line to the emitter without any serious obstacles in between, the receiving strength of a 167cm straight antenna is enough. Indeed, I ended up using 20db attenuator to get of a distortion in a stereo mode. this seems to be in line with Romy's findings that this baby wants a weak RF signal or? I thought it makes no sense to install a more elaborate and powerful antenna just to later add even more attenuation? Or am I missing something?
I could install for example a directional antenna like this:

https://www.dipol.com.pl/antena_radiowa_dipol_3-rz_b_A0312.htm
But it has +5dB energy gain compared to the straight one. So if the straight one needs 20dB, the directional would need even more at 25dB. What is the sense here.
2) Attenuators: I have a fixed 20dB one:

https://www.dipol.com.pl/tlumik_staly_20db_dse_ta01-20_5-1000_mhz_R50163.htm

but I can get a adjustable 4-20dB:

https://www.dipol.com.pl/tlumik_antenowy_tv_regulowany_tra-03_R50150.htm

What I however wanted to try is more than 20dB but hard to find anything (thanks doug for the info, but I'd prefer to find sth simpler like on the links above).
3) More mods - point taken Romy, I just don't touch it.
4) We have a very good classical radio here - Polish Radio 2, they have quite a lot of life broadcasts both from Poland (where they do their own transmission) and abroad (live retransmissions, e.g. BBC proms).
Cheers, Jarek




Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
12-18-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,255
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 53
Post ID: 25715
Reply to: 25714
Gain vs. Selectivity, and Logs
A lot I know, I gave up on serious FM decades ago because I just haven't had acceptable access to good programming or broadcasting. Still, I remember the fiddling I used to do trying to polish the gain/selectivity equation. When and how attenuation is handled is important, as is selection and "antenna trimming",  and tuners are very mysterious, perfect for OCD fooling around. Like good DXers do, keep a log or logs. Can't beat Good FM! When you lock on it's like a Magic Carpet Ride!


Cheers,
Paul S
12-19-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,733
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 54
Post ID: 25716
Reply to: 25714
I hope it worth it....
 N-set wrote:
Gdańsk, Poland
I thought it makes no sense to install a more elaborate and powerful antenna just to later add even more attenuation? Or am I missing something? 
The whole idea of directional antenna is the that it gives more gains overall but it give better selectivity and better attenuation of the signal from the stations that it not pointed to. It is very much not be necessary in your specific environment and how the stations are located round you. Get the graph of your stations, signal strength and the azimuths for you location and you will see what is going on.
 
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=7749#7749

 N-set wrote:
We have a very good classical radio here - Polish Radio 2, they have quite a lot of life broadcasts both from Poland (where they do their own transmission) and abroad (live retransmissions, e.g. BBC proms). 
This is very good. In you Gdansk you are very far as far as FM concerned from Germany, Denmark or Czechoslovakia but you might get a good signal from Kaliningrad in case they rebroadcast some good Russian programing.  Typically for a typical commercial antenna and typical powers the 50-60 miles is a typical distance after witch the problems begun. If your local stations still do live retransmissions then you have a winning ticket for next few year unit they will stop. If you can then you might want to hook up with your broadcasts engenders who run the live shows and you can twick sound a bit…  I hope the quality music that they send over the air worth it…  


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-19-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 496
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 55
Post ID: 25717
Reply to: 25716
Practicalities
Thanks for your responses guys. Would be great to learn some practical procedures how to setup a tuner/antenna combo properly. Any ideas where to find some sort of a tutorial? For example I'd love to learn what are the tuning scope images in this post and how they were obtained:
http://goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=6808#6808
I've also discovered a Multipath button. When I change the meter to Multipath the needle wobbles between 0 and some 20dB with my simple whip antenna. Is it good/bad/neutral?
BTW, FMtool is a heck of a cool radio signal map but unfortunately I haven't found anything like that in EU. But I know the parameters of the emitter I want to tune in and I first concentrate on it (2,6km away from me, 1 tall building in between).


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
12-19-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,255
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 56
Post ID: 25718
Reply to: 25717
"Bounce"
Of course you can do it all by ear, and I found that there were times when "my ears disagreed with the meter". As you note, signal strength and "quality" also relate to "mode" (such as Multipath), and not only broadcasts but also tuners vary as to what might be the "best mode" for listening to a given signal. It is possible to get an acceptable signal that's "bounced" off something before it got to your antenna. Or, bounce might (more commonly) register as phase interference. But, annoyingly, bounce and pretty much everything else can vary according to atmospheric conditions, too. Just play with it, see if you can get "the same thing" by repeating the same tuning procedure for the same channel, then note that the time of day is also a factor!

Fun!


Paul S
12-10-2020 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 496
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 57
Post ID: 26030
Reply to: 25717
What a bliss TUX1 in Covid times!
I want to kiss this damn thing! I agree with Romy that hearing a good FM redefines what a (true) high-end is. For the past 5 days I've been listening for live FM streams of baroque concerts from Gdansk   http://www.actushumanus.com/
Covid destroyed the concert life this year and the FM is the only thing left to enjoy. I know the church, I know how (shitty) it usually sounds in reality, sucking grundtone out of the music, unless you are in a very specific spots and now this FM...its a blessing! I'm now in a new place (Warsaw), the electricity is new to me, the system was moved, cables disturbed, there is Pure Power in the chain (will comment later on it) feeding a shitty household power strip before I reconfigure mine and a new antenna and still....after a few hours of warming the sound locked into this "FM magic" and is just a pure pleasure!
This is the new antenna installation. The transmitter is only a few km away but screen behind the apartment block so I'm catching a strong reflection I guess. The meter shows 45dBf, multipath in the zero region. Don't ask me why the antenna wants to stay close to the steel railings, but it just wants.

New antenna Jarek.jpg






Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
Page 3 of 3 (57 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2 3
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  The ultimate buffer – light in the end of a tunnel..  A few minor corrections...  Audio Discussions  Forum     36  322255  04-28-2005
  »  New  Where the FM quality comes from?..  Freaking ridicules…...  Off Air Audio Forum     22  153842  11-02-2005
  »  New  How to record FM broadcasts...  Left to center...  Off Air Audio Forum     125  911100  11-04-2005
  »  New  Align your FM tuners!..  The Munich technician?...  Off Air Audio Forum     7  73947  03-27-2006
  »  New  K-Stereo Ambience Recovery Processor..  Peter's UpperBass + K-Stereo Files....  Didital Things  Forum     29  221074  10-04-2007
  »  New  Antenna solutions for FM..  Hurricane Irene ibn Oz in Boston...  Off Air Audio Forum     27  155413  02-21-2008
  »  New  Where are our good Tuners?..  Ok, it did clear the things up....  Off Air Audio Forum     43  332523  03-31-2008
  »  New  Kenwood L-02T and the hype of FM tuners..  Good reception...inferior Sound...  Off Air Audio Forum     2  56356  04-25-2008
  »  New  The FM Stereo and Multiplex MPX decoders..  The new life of Rohde & Schwarz decoder....  Off Air Audio Forum     12  126403  05-02-2008
  »  New  Rohde & Schwarz EU-6201 Tuner..  The Schwarz runs from crystal oscillator!...  Off Air Audio Forum     34  291050  05-07-2008
  »  New  Tuners and digital noise from DAW, A/D and D/A..  Beter installation + more ferrete...  Off Air Audio Forum     10  92120  07-20-2008
  »  New  A tube tuner? REL Precedent 646C..  REL Precedent Report...  Off Air Audio Forum     24  218128  07-28-2008
  »  New  TU-X1 setup..  State of the live broadcast...  Off Air Audio Forum     16  113877  09-06-2008
  »  New  Sansui AU-X1 bomb.....  Sansui AU-X1 bomb......  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  13474  03-25-2009
  »  New  Forward in the past with old radios...  Kitchen radio as a source of immense pleasure....  Off Air Audio Forum     18  124774  01-21-2011
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