10-03-2008 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree Retsel Posts 2 Joined on 10-04-2008 Post #: 51 Post ID: 8435 Reply to: 7010 Enabled Lowther drivers I just found this thread and can comment on the Enabled DX4s.  Limono (Wojtek) very gratiously loaned his Enabled 8 ohm Lowther DX4 drivers to me this past summer (summer of 2008).  It took my a while to make the crossover for these (I have the 15 ohm Lowthers my my Basszilla speakers), but finally I got that together and tried out the enabled Lowthers. I spent over a month with them and tried a lot of different music (all CDs).  I was able to sum up a lot of significant improvements.  The sound is much more dynamic, the instruments are better deliniated within their own space, therefore the sound is less diffuse (the diffuse sound is probably a symptom of the paper cones).  The more focused sound contributes toward the improved dynamics.  The cones tends to stay more coherent at all sound levels but particularly at higher sound levels, sounding less mish-mashy with complex musical passages.  High frequencies are more focused and again the tone is better (less wooly sound).  People complain about the high frequencies (treble) of the Lowther drivers - the Enable process much improves the high frequencies from the Lowther drivers - cymbals sound much better.  The tone is better for horn instruments as trumpets sound more like trumpets.  I prefer multiway horn systems for their dynamics and single driver system for the coherency and tone.  The Enabled Lowther drivers bring the Baszilla speaker much, much closer to the dynamics of multiway horn systems. Overall the Enable process makes the Lowther DX4s much better drivers, and the difference is not small; they are not perceived or a function of my imagination.  Putting back the old drivers back in "let the air out of the balloon.."  I need to say, though, that the Enabled drivers are more transparent sounding.  They do a much better job of reproducing the electrical signal provided to them.  If you have any harshness upstream, you will hear it.  Limono did not like his Enabled drivers which is why he loaned them to me.  He later on brought over his amps and we were able to figure out that the 45 tubes that he was using were harsh sounding, which he did not pick up on before his Lowther drivers were Enabled.  By the way, the 15 ohm Lowthers do not have a 2000 hz peak, and do not need a trap like the 8 ohm Lowthers need. I will have the Enabled process done to my Lowther speakers, but I just have to figure out if I will try to do that myself, or if I will send the drivers to Bud. Wojtek said that he preferred his horns to my Basszilla speakers.  I should say that I cobbled my Basszilla speakers together with some used plywood from some old closet doors.  They look pathetic, are not optimized and should not be used to compare front horns to open baffle speakers.  In fact, I am thinking of redesigning the Basszilla speakers to be waveguides instead of the flat baffles.  If I stay with the basic Basszilla speaker design, I will fix them and bring them up another level.  Even with these compromised Basszilla cabinets, the music is still wonderful with the Enabled Lowthers.  Retsel

10-04-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Wojtek Pinckney (MI), United States Posts 178 Joined on 09-01-2005 Post #: 52 Post ID: 8448 Reply to: 8435 Lowther and Enabl I corrected  a mistake in amps construction but the thing  I cannot explain is that after I picked up the drivers from Retsel they were much mellower /smoother sounding .Did hummidity change or they finally "broked -in" I don't know. Reports of improvement on Enabled cones are uniformly positive  so I must be an odball with my feeling that there is something lost in the layer of Enabl cone coating .I like them better in horns because I think they sound fuller/richer in lower midrange -less "hifishy" ,less audiophile /mainstream and there is this horn EQ mechanism working (even in such a low level implementation) .Thanks for the summary ,Retsel .I thought that Paul would jump in and write up something intelligent as I'm in a state of permanent confusion ;0) but he seems to be obsessed with electricity these days. Regards, W

10-04-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Paul S San Diego, California, USA Posts 2,657 Joined on 10-12-2006 Post #: 53 Post ID: 8449 Reply to: 8448 Drivers, Dope and Radio Flyers Wojtek, I am indeed hemmed in by the fricking electricity these days, to the extent that it is about impossible to hold on to a baseline for reference.  And the Lowthers only make the problem more apparent. Yes, I still wonder about how I would react to the EnABL process, given that I spent years (many years ago) messing with "dope" and other diaphragm/driver tuning/destroying methods.  Like I said several times, I would gladly and stupidly accept positive results without ever wholly buying into the specific cause/cure theory behind the process, especially if it "enabled" me to eliminate the notch filters and the compensatory Zobels I now suffer as the lesser of evils.  Frankly, however, I find pretty absurd the claim that it "brings up" the LF/MF rather than merely damping HF/peaks.  I just don't get this. Also, like I mentioned earlier, Yoshi just threw me a slow, high "fat" curve ball in the form of his de-whizzered Reps drivers, and I am really itching to use them to raise efficiency and maybe re-configure/improve the bass.  I still like the OBs for mid- range, but I wish I was not so dependent on PERFECT electricity for decent upper bass, which problem I currently blame specifically on the OB Lowthers being yet over-extended, even though high-passed, at least most of the time.  However, and again, I have actually gotten pretty good upper bass from the DEBZs, so the "theoretical" aspect may be "sound", withal (for whatever that's worth...). I kept up with Retsel's way-different version of the "BassZillas" for a while there, but now I wonder from his current description if I could glean anything useful from hearing about the EnABL'd DX4s in his speakers/system.  Bud P has told me in no uncertain terms that I have to actually try it on my own drivers and dial it in to my own system (ie, bite the bullet) to get the benefits, and I suppose he is probably right. Perhaps others can see the irony in the fact that I am pretty happy with my system performance when the electricity is primo, just not so much when - as is more usual - electricity sucks.   In fact, I would hate to lose what I have on a gamble primarily induced by my disgust and impatience with bad electricity. I think for now I will try to plan and map a strategy that allows me to go back if/when I screw something up during the course of my reaching and grabbing for "more".  For one thing, I HATE working up crossovers!  What is the easiest way these days (for the theory only, of course, since actually listening is always another matter)? Wojtek, I hated things about the Lowthers immediately upon first hearing them, and none of these impressions/aversions have changed, either.  More irony is that what I liked best about the Lowthers - their "immediacy" - took a significant hit as I developed their speed and tonal neutrality, along with their rich harmonic potential.  I would hate to lose these hard-won traits or shift the balance to limbo in order to get calmer HF, which I have already +/- gotten by other means. One thing for sure: an EnABLd driver is an EnABLd driver.  The only way to turn that around would be re-coning. I periodically re-read the happy EnABLd talk to see if I missed somthing that strikes me as especially deep/significant as it relates to where I perceive myself/where I want to go.  If I jump, it will be into some sort of personally-pre-conceived place, not onto a bandwagon. Best regards, Paul S

04-19-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Paul Butterfield Winter Park FL [Next to Rat-Town] Posts 5 Joined on 08-24-2006 Post #: 54 Post ID: 10266 Reply to: 3153 Preliminary report regarding Lowthers new DX65 fiogf49gjkf0d Hey Romy! Been awhile... But I been sooooo busy! Got some preliminary news to post regarding Lowthers new DX65: For many months I've been corresponding with Jon at Lowther America regarding one of my experimental designs, integrating a Lowther DX 55 cone into the motor of an Lowther EX4, in an effort to produce a superior midrange/high frequency driver. I succeeded beyond my expectations, and I was the first in the US to build a 'DIY DX65.'  Jon told me "Someone is listening!" and Lowther UK is now marketing a similar design as my DIY DX55/EX4 — the DX65 driver... *grins* I'm currently writing a 'White Paper' about the 'Quite Mad Frankensteining' of a DX55/EX4 and will report forthwith when finished. Yours in Music, Paul Paul Butterfield Recording Engineer, IATSE A-1 Archival & Digital Audio Consultant, NEA ~~~~~~~~ Central Florida Audio Society Single Ended Triodes @ Yahoo Space Coast Audio Society SoCal Horn Group Romy's Audio Site AA High Efficiency Forum JoeNet Sound Practices -- "Those who hear not the music think the dancers mad." - Angela Monet

11-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Paul S San Diego, California, USA Posts 2,657 Joined on 10-12-2006 Post #: 55 Post ID: 14932 Reply to: 10266 Living With DX4s (or, trying to...) fiogf49gjkf0d IMO, any sonic benefits from running Lowthers stock are totally swamped by excessive, ragged response that is generally (but not steadily...) rising - a lot - toward HF.  There have been many ideas for "taming the Lowther", and here is another one, based on my long-term use of DX4s in my own version of Dick Olsher's original (and proprietary) Diamond Edition BassZillas.  It is "given" in the DEBZ plans that one has to do something with the stock Lowther response. After years of messing with the stock DEBZ filters, and after scrutinizing Martin King's response and impedance plots (Thanks, Martin!), I have finally decided to trade the mallet for a scalpel.  Of course I still use a high-pass cap and a HF roll-off coil; but, whereas the stock notch filter and coil attempt to knock down two sharp humps and a rising top end with a quick 1-2 combination, I finally decided to address the individual response humps individually, with two notch filters before the coil, this in order to avoid dropping stock response dips even farther. YMMV, but I used 130 uF "1st order" for the high pass, to offset baffle step and in recognition of the fact that the BR Audax PR380M2 does not do well over ~125 Hz.  I figured rising LF impedance at resonance would combine with the cap to effectively stuff LF.  I put the first LCR/notch TIGHT on 2,050 Hz with 60 uF, .09 mH and 5.1 R; I put the second LCR/notch TIGHT on 4,600 Hz with 30 uF, .04 mH and 5.1 R; I rolled it off @ 6dB/octave with -3 dB @ 6,800 Hz using .187 mH.  I left the stock Zobel.  I brought the ribbon in over a 2nd order filter, 6 dB down at 13.5k Hz.  The DEBZs gained weight and overall balance improved for the real.  They lost unwanted HF peaks without suffering adjacent suck-outs.   Clarity is fine now, but I expect the new caps will soon clamp down and then stay clamped for the next couple of months. Of course, YMMV, naturally, but in any case I think the "double-notch" approach is "viable", given stock ("new" type, with rolled whizzer edge) DX4s, anyway.  At some point I may try wads of cotten instead of the end coil to shape the HF. Paul S

11-19-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Paul S San Diego, California, USA Posts 2,657 Joined on 10-12-2006 Post #: 56 Post ID: 14991 Reply to: 14932 "Perfected" DEBZs (Keep or Sell?) fiogf49gjkf0d As I have shared several times here, I happen to regard the Lowther as nothing more than a means to an end.  Partly because of this, I have taken my lumps with this marque.  Today, I am pleased to have finally made the speakers I imagined 6 years ago, using the Lowther to best advantage, in the critical wide-band role. Electricity was good and parts let up way more than I expected they would.  Clarity and overall communication were exceptional today, with loud, serious music from LPs.  The notch filters are already doing just what I hoped for with minimal downside, to the extent that I might say, "no downside"; definitely "viable".  I have gotten the DX4s to meet the Audax BRs in a very good place, and LF is as good as I have heard from BR of anywhere near this capacity.  With decent electricity and attention to the amps, I am in orbit.  Space is damn near empty, and detail is present at all frequencies, with a flat response (for a change!!!).  Who knew the Lowther could do all this?  Median pitch has apparently lightened somewhat (probably due to parts break-in), and all is well today in my listening room! So, what kind of a nut-job would part with these speakers to take a long-range flyer on another seriously-complex DIY system he's never actually heard? Paul S

08-28-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Paul S San Diego, California, USA Posts 2,657 Joined on 10-12-2006 Post #: 57 Post ID: 18546 Reply to: 14991 Care and Feeding of Lowther: How Much Power is Too Much? fiogf49gjkf0d It just ocurred to me to stir things up by posting here about the fact that my own DEBZs (somehow) absorbed 600W peaks during a recent Mahler 3 frenzy. I remember reading somewhere that some owners of the biggest Horning speakers would run them at 120 dB, but this is the first time I have any experience like this to share.  From my own experience, the extra power (and probably the feedback) from my Marantz MA-9S2s makes the Lowthers sound better than before, especially at higher volumes and with more complex music.  It will take more listening at high levels to tell whether the "gelatin ceiling" still happens; but I was not thinking about this when listening to the Mahler 3. Rather, I was amazed at what the Lowther can do OB when fed by the MA-9S2.  And funny, but I think perhaps I can pull back a little on the notch filters (lower R), or I am curious to try it.  Whooda thunk it? Paul S

08-29-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Paul S San Diego, California, USA Posts 2,657 Joined on 10-12-2006 Post #: 58 Post ID: 18551 Reply to: 18546 OK, Maybe Not 600W... fiogf49gjkf0d Same thoughts, same amazing-for-Lowthers performances, etc., but ratchet the numbers down some, since my new amp's VU meter might be somewhat optimistic.  Do NOT try feeding your Lowthers 600W at home! Paul S

06-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Paul S San Diego, California, USA Posts 2,657 Joined on 10-12-2006 Post #: 59 Post ID: 19463 Reply to: 18551 Voxative: Dare to Dream fiogf49gjkf0d Move over Feastrex, here comes another OCD Lowther-alike, the Voxative something-or-other.  When you visit the V site via the link be sure to follow up on the wood-coned, field coil, nominal 8" FR driver that seems to be the only motor in the cabinet, claimed good for 25 Hz.  I saw them rolled out somewhere else a little while ago, and I think I remember that Voxative wants $100k/pr. Paul S

06-08-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Paul S San Diego, California, USA Posts 2,657 Joined on 10-12-2006 Post #: 60 Post ID: 19467 Reply to: 19463 Voxative Ampeggio Due fiogf49gjkf0d Looks like the link I intended to include above never made the transition, and it's too late now to edit it in, so: http://www.voxativ.com/eng/ I had in mind that this link would go straight to the speaker I mention, but I did not follow it myself yet, so, we'll see.  The home page offers several language options. Paul S

06-09-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Stitch Behind The Sun Posts 235 Joined on 01-15-2009 Post #: 61 Post ID: 19469 Reply to: 19467 Voxative fiogf49gjkf0d May I ask what do you think is so special about those? I listened to both Designs (Ampeggio ] Ampeggio Due) some time ago at a Manufacturers Demo and I didn't get what they are good for. I had problems to find something like a soundstage, from the frequency range I had absolutely no idea from what they should be ahead (other speakers have a wider range) and also from the "Gestalt" they left me speechless, because it was simply flat and 2-dimensional. But the finish of them is absolutely top. So I guess, they are a nice furniture???  Kind Regards Stitch

06-09-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Paul S San Diego, California, USA Posts 2,657 Joined on 10-12-2006 Post #: 62 Post ID: 19470 Reply to: 19469 Schadenfreude II fiogf49gjkf0d Stitch, I do not think they are special apart from the triumphant nature of their presention, and their curiosity factor, like a perfect 1/100 scale model of Notre Dame made of smoked pork, accented with mother of pearl.  That they are 8" single driver, "FR", is enough to instantly disqualify them according to their own criteria, IMO, FC and wooden cones notwithstanding.  From this point, the greater the cost, and the more serious and invloved the rollout, the bigger the laugh.  As for my being facetious, also factor in my jealousy over their manufacturing capabilities.  Why don't "they" build something worthwhile (and maybe even affordable...) for a change??? Best regards, Paul S

01-02-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Paul S San Diego, California, USA Posts 2,657 Joined on 10-12-2006 Post #: 63 Post ID: 27320 Reply to: 19470 Selling OCD Lowther DX-4s on OBs, +++ OK, I am keeping my new The Loudspeaker(s), and I will be selling my large "Diamond Edition BassZilla" OB speakers that feature OB high-passed Lowther DX-4s running wide range (NOT full range!) over 15" Audax PR380-M2 woofers in integrated BR boxes under, with Fontek 2 (Germany) UHF ribbons over. XOs are passive, film caps and permium coils and resistors, all wired part-to-part, with tinned 12AWG ground busses and Chimera Litz braided OFC wiring, including integrated speaker wiring. Lowthers and Audax woofers just got new surrounds, and the speakers sound great! Speakers are 73" tall, 22 1/2" wide, and 17 3/4" deep, including XO "bustles" on the backs of the bass boxes. Weight, 155#/ea. Cabinets are made of 1 1/8" plywood with clear, vertical grain fir veneer that was hand dyed and French polished to look like antique ebony (including the bent wood bustles). Insides are parged with modified LFT/stone mortar and covered with 3/8" wool felt. These are NOT the same as current BassZillas shown on Dick Olsher's Black Dahlia website; they are much better (which Dick will verify), and they cost a lot more to build (which Dick will verify...). $4k is less than parts. I'd much rather not ship. PM if interested. I tried to include a photo here, but site tools aren't working for me at this time. Paul S