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   Home » Playback Listening » The “Inverted High End Audio” ™ (31 posts, 2 pages)
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  »  New  How audio started…...  Clarifying...  Audio Discussions  Forum     18  94562  01-21-2005
  »  New  TAS article: start of the Hi-End Industry..  ....binaural.......  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  61314  03-18-2006
  »  New  About destiny of “High-End Sound”...  Got today via email....  Playback Listening  Forum     6  45224  01-19-2007
  »  New  Beethoven IX and Fürtwängler..  Holy Crap! (Music and Arts transfer)...  Musical Discussions  Forum     2  17892  08-11-2007
  »  New  The high-end audio, as it should be...  My prediction about it in 2020....  Off Air Audio Forum     3  32481  03-15-2008
  »  New  The Absolute Sound of Audio Idiocy...  Different ways of listening...  Playback Listening  Forum     13  64635  08-06-2008
  »  New  The decentralization and multi-polarization of audio...  The decentralization and multi-polarization of audio....  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  11359  10-01-2008
  »  New  Sound is like a proverbial Fruit...  Sound is like a proverbial Fruit....  Playback Listening  Forum     0  8365  04-04-2009
  »  New  About reviewer’s qualifications and disqualifications...  Sad thing....  Audio Discussions  Forum     1  20427  06-21-2009
  »  New  The Truly High-End Amplification. Does is really exist?..  The Elusive Point of Reference...  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     1  18398  12-16-2009
  »  New  The industry-embraced audio and classical music...  Listening to/for What?...  Playback Listening  Forum     5  24984  12-24-2010
  »  New  Who has best sound in High-End Audio?..  We can be Guilty aswell...  Playback Listening  Forum     6  31526  12-25-2010
04-26-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,148
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 26
Post ID: 20731
Reply to: 20727
When It Was Still Fun
fiogf49gjkf0d
Back in 1962 it was still fun to try to make "real" sound from hi-fi. Oddly enough, I was soon into horns...
JGH went from (A-7) horns, to big Fultons, to mid-field monitors (Tannoys, the last time I spoke with him...), and his own version of 5.1 sound. I followed along as far as the Fultons because I either heard what he was talking about, or I thought I could hear it.

Gordon does not go into it in the shared Q/As, but he also for some time championed better recording, and he himself mostly followed his own edicts when he recorded symphony orchestras. I mention this not as an historical anecdote but because (as Gordon said, and I agree) good recording is indeed "the missing link", and problems with recordings are partly responsible for disparate efforts at sound "re"production. It's ironic to think that recording itself took such a long drop, starting about the time JGH picked up the gong, in the early 60s.

In the minds of many, JGH will be "remembered" as something like "The Father of Subjective Audio". This is actually sort of funny to me, because I know it would drive Gordon nuts! Although I am not such an empiricist, JGH certainly fancied himself as such, and he went to great lengths to codify pretty much all of his audio ideas. While he was hardly an enigma, I can see that it might be a stretch for those encountering his ideas out of context to equate the early anti-Hirsch/"anti-measurement" diatribes with his relentlessly "scientific" approach to hi-fi, including plenty of "empirical" testing and an entire "lexicon", along the lines of an Audio Esperanto, to try to keep audio discussion under control (and therefore relevant). The reader might enjoy knowing that the Art Dudley quote JGH so lightly touches on in the shared QAs was in fact a source and "cause" of much consternation and ire for Gordon, who (as far as I know) never did give up on the idea that Music could be "realistically" recorded and played back in the home.

Paul S
04-26-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 27
Post ID: 20733
Reply to: 20731
About Art Dudley
fiogf49gjkf0d
Or anyway about that quote by Gordon.
There are two epigrams I've often quoted in this connection. The first is from conductor Roger Norrington:
Music is not about sound.
The second is my own:
Audio is a damn distraction from the music.
c
04-26-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,148
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 28
Post ID: 20735
Reply to: 20733
More on Audio or Sound vs Music
fiogf49gjkf0d
Clark, there is much about sound that delights me, including the sounds involved in Music, and I also enjoy at times the hi-fi, especially as I fancy it to be a "vehicle" for Music. Of course the audio does not necessarily render Music, and I can only hope it still holds some interest as a nerd-ish hobby in the absence of Music. Between the bad electricity, source and equipment boredom and nonsense, and my own bio-rhythms, I have survived some looong audio droughts to respond to your post!

Best regards,
Paul S
04-27-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 302
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 29
Post ID: 20736
Reply to: 20735
Sounds of silence
fiogf49gjkf0d
In the past people only occasionally heard music unless they were high enough nobility to have a stable of musicians at their beck and call or made music themselves. Let's be thankful that we have a simulacrum of music available that easily allows us to distinguish not only different pieces of music but also different performances of the same music performed by the world's best musicians. We also can preserve music for that far future time when people will know how to correctly restore it. Whether they too will be dancing to Lutoslawski or scintillating their 2000th point of light to Xennakis is not an important issue to me. So there.
04-29-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 227
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 30
Post ID: 20743
Reply to: 20736
A historical perspective?
fiogf49gjkf0d
In the past, there was different types of music. The masses NEVER were without music. They had their invention instruments and folkmusic even when the upper class was into "other things". That basic honest folk music was even present in the US. Unfortunately the urbanisation of America changed a lot of that. Sprituals became "gospel". Jazz became crossover, school marching band for the masses became organized drum and bugle corps or fancy choreographed half times.


Still - in spite of all of this, the basic honest low level folk music is still alive and well - but only for people that have the luxury of "free time".

I would say that the listening time has gone down - not due to lack of opportunity, rather the listener being on TX rather than RX..........


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
05-20-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 158
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 31
Post ID: 22621
Reply to: 20743
God is in the Nuances
fiogf49gjkf0d
This is an article from Markus Sauer about High-end audio and Jürgen Ackermann Research:

http://www.stereophile.com/features/203/#aWXwEiAdSsQVocY1.97

Page 2 of 2 (31 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  How audio started…...  Clarifying...  Audio Discussions  Forum     18  94562  01-21-2005
  »  New  TAS article: start of the Hi-End Industry..  ....binaural.......  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  61314  03-18-2006
  »  New  About destiny of “High-End Sound”...  Got today via email....  Playback Listening  Forum     6  45224  01-19-2007
  »  New  Beethoven IX and Fürtwängler..  Holy Crap! (Music and Arts transfer)...  Musical Discussions  Forum     2  17892  08-11-2007
  »  New  The high-end audio, as it should be...  My prediction about it in 2020....  Off Air Audio Forum     3  32481  03-15-2008
  »  New  The Absolute Sound of Audio Idiocy...  Different ways of listening...  Playback Listening  Forum     13  64635  08-06-2008
  »  New  The decentralization and multi-polarization of audio...  The decentralization and multi-polarization of audio....  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  11359  10-01-2008
  »  New  Sound is like a proverbial Fruit...  Sound is like a proverbial Fruit....  Playback Listening  Forum     0  8365  04-04-2009
  »  New  About reviewer’s qualifications and disqualifications...  Sad thing....  Audio Discussions  Forum     1  20427  06-21-2009
  »  New  The Truly High-End Amplification. Does is really exist?..  The Elusive Point of Reference...  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     1  18398  12-16-2009
  »  New  The industry-embraced audio and classical music...  Listening to/for What?...  Playback Listening  Forum     5  24984  12-24-2010
  »  New  Who has best sound in High-End Audio?..  We can be Guilty aswell...  Playback Listening  Forum     6  31526  12-25-2010
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