Marc HENRY wrote:

hi all, thanks for your interest ! yes the frame is curved, HF and MF are // yes there is a phase plug in the bass horn. This cover 80-300Hz. there is a separate infra-bass section, covering 20-80Hz. images of the bass phase plug and the infra-bass section are not available yet... crossover is full passive, firt order. all driver are time aligned for a listening position at a distance of 3 meters and over. much more details comming soon on our website... Best regards, Marco --- http://musique-concrete.com/MC/Galerie.html#17

Well, Marc, what you said addressed all my concerns. The HF and MF are parallel, the upperbass is not. I think it might be OK in this case as your upperbass is dipole that would greatly mask out any phase anomalies. The upperbass is very narrow banded with 80-300Hz. That is a good range foe this topology of horn. I presume it it has a resonance somewhere around 80Hz and with a proper selection of driver it might work very well. The presence of the separate sub 80Hz section imidetaly brings this system from the state of stupid wishful thinking into a realm of very lucid design, my congratulations.

Looking at what you have done I think that the only “slippery” moment in this speaker is the high knee of the upperbass and lover knee of MF. If your MF driver goes down to 300Hz then it is very “pushy” I would say. That would require a good 120Hz -140Hz horn but your MF horn strike me as 170Hz-200Hz horn. I do not know you but let presume that since you did not make other mistakes then you know what you do and what you hear. Then you would not load into a 200Hz Le Cléac’h horn 300Hz compression driver with first order. Well, you might go for it if you need it and it you upperbass cannot go up enough but in your case, having the shallow upperbass horn and a phase plug in the upperbass, you have no necessity to kill the upperbass at 300Hz.  So, if to presuming that you know what you hear and that your speaker sounds good then most likely here is what happen in them. You most likely do not let the MF god all the way down to 300Hz. You might highpass the upperbass at 300Hz electrically with your “crossover is full passive, first order” but in reality a single coil would not stop those drivers. At 300Hz the inductance of those midbass woofers become co-measurable with the inductance of the filter coil, so you crossover point slips all the way up. I might presume that the actual -3dB from upperbass you have at 700-1000Hz that would mask out your lower knee of your MF channel.  So, the octave where your MF and upperbass work together you use as a virtual Macondo’s “Fundamental Channel”. This is might take how your speaker work if it sounds balanced.

Ok, to conclude the things. It looks like from what it presented now the speaker is done with no mistakes and even I can’t find a rational to bitch about them. I nominate this “La Grande Castine” as the second “The most promising ‘best’ commercial horn speaker” right after the Cessaro Gamma. So, how the La Grande Castine sounds? Since there are no strategic mistakes in the design then the speaker will sound as good as the drivers are able to.  I have no idea what drivers La Grande Castine use and it looks as then went into extend to hide the drivers identity. If the drivers are very good then the Castine might sound very promising.

When the information about the bass section become available then, please, post a note.

KLegind wrote:

Hello Marc Henry, I am curious as to why you picked the 4540 driver for HF.

be wrote:

"This topology was invented by Steen Duelund" Ah-hm, ring radiators where not invented or even re-invented by the Steen Duelund dude, just copied. JBL used the priciple 40 years prior to that in: 2402-2403-2404-2405  and Fostex have been using them also: T90 T825 T925 T500. The BMS is indeed a ring radiator. Cheers

Marc HENRY wrote:

La Grande Castine will not be as expensive as Cessaro Gamma. i am sorry but i cannot answer to all questions, for several reasons you can understand. we have tested many drivers since the early prototype of La Grande Castine. BMS were the very first. i am a bit surprised that anybody here recognize the brand name of the bass horn speakers :-) As Romy mentionned, the electric cutoff of the MF is close to the acoustical cutoff of the horn. this is not so audible around 300Hz. i never do such a thing in the 600-3000Hz area ! even if the crossover is 6db everywhere, i confirm that the effective cutoff of the bass horn is really 300Hz. there is no MF pollution comming out of this horn. I am proud of this phase plug :-D

Marco, price is not a mach of a subject at this site. If read around then you will see that quite a few horns systems or ideas were passing thought my attention but very few met any more or less favoriteable acceptance.

As now, there are 2 things that I would mention in context of your speakers.

First: do not be afraid to run your upperbass higher then 600Hz. I do not know how about the 3000Hz but the higher out of upperbass is not a pollution, even though your upperbass has angled axis with all time-alignment consequences. Even if your MF compression driver can handle confidently 300Hz and to produce interesting sonic result while doing it (that I doubt) then it does not mean that your upperbass mast stop at 600Hz. Let presume that you use woofers with copper caps that would control the inductance change (to a degree), even then there is no need to keep the 600Hz firm. (BTW, I do have an idea how you control low pass since you are proud of this phase plug – my compliments and I will go there for the reasons you proposed to understand.) Still, you might feel that in your situation the low-pass of your upperbass sound fine but it might be very much not the case in a slightly different room. An ability of the MF and upperbass to work an octave of a half octave together is a very good tool to control the weight of fundamentals. It would depend from the room and the listening distance. So, if I were you I would tap the coil that roll of your upperbass with 3-6 taps. Letting uses to set electric crossover point at let say 600Hz, 800Hz or 1000Hz. In your specific case (dipole and axis) you shall not worry about the timing problem that would arrive in other cases.

Second: As I understand you are moving from DIY environment to making a Hi-Fi commercial speaker. Respecting the time and money you have devoted to the venture I would like to give you a world of advice. The DIY and High-End commercial trades are very different animals. In DIY you mostly face extremely ignorant, low demand, cronyism driver audio-lumpenproletariat that would kiss you in ass during your diarrhea. The business  “success” in DIY environment is about to be mutually friendly, promise internal loyalty and telling to each idiot you face that s/he is “special”. The High-End commercial trade is very different. As in DIY trade the sound of your speaker is irrelevant. What is relevant would be the amount and the quality of personal you sight up to promote your products. Under the “quality of personal” I mean that you need to built a network of the dirtiest scams around the word, to collect the creatures who would fuck own mother for 3 easy payments of $19.95. Like it or not but those people, not you and not your speaker, will be something that assures the success of your business venture. I wish you sign-on to your projects the dirtiest and the most audio-retarded inhabitants of audio. Then your new acoustic system might get some momentum in this “hobby”

I wish you good luck with your new project. Please, when you finish uploading to your site all public information about the “La Grande Castine” then past a note at my site.

The 6moons put up some pastures and some details. Interesting that Marc refused to comment about the specifics of the driver and this use but the 6moons has published all information.

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/grandecastine/1.html

As an update of his former article

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/grandecastine/1.html

Srajan Ebayn of the 6moomsposted the second part:

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/grandecastine/2.html

It looks like the Marco new revision of his speaks features new drivers, some kind of Titanium midrange and Cyrille Audio 15” cone woofers. I do not know – perhaps it is some kind of mental disorder in my head but I truly did not get what Srajan Ebayn was saying. It was some kind of cacophony of familiar buzz was but they do not form sentences in my head.  To me Srajan more and more sounds like Sarah Palin….

Anyhow, I need to let he Srajan Ebayn go – there is not need to trauma traumatized. Whoever are interested about Marco new revision of loudspeaker might reads the link above. I wish Ebayn would not talk himself but juts quote what was told to him – it would be I am sure less idiocy. I do not have an opinion about the Marco’s new design but there is something the I already very much do not like. Wherever Srajan Ebayn posts, of published elsewhere was signed off by manufacturer.  So, Marco and whoever works with him have seen the picture of Hugues Borsarello - “the concert violinist and electrical designer par excellence” sating with his erected violin next to the speaker.  I understand the Srajan’s motivations: the massaging cheap kitsch and cheese visual superficiality is his destiny. However, when the French guys inspected the article and signed it off for posting then didn’t they see that Hugues’ depicting with a  violin and the speaker is too tasteless?

Marc HENRY wrote:

I all,Perhaps there is someone here who can visit us in Cognac, to verify if Srajan Ebaen is right or not ?every music lover is welcome :-)Regards,Marco ---

Marco, it is good that you invite people but I do not think that to “verify Srajan Ebaen” is a noble task for anyone. Srajan’s travel and his audio advantage are well known in Europe and very many audio manufactures from Europe reports who he is and what he is after. Even this week I receive two emails (completely not solicited) from a small European manufactures who informed me what Srajan was after and how they sorry that they got involved. I personally feel that their “sorry” excuse is a lie as the Morons do read the Srajan’s pornography and as result help them to sell their products. However, here is where the difference between you and me lies. You do have publicity and exposure interest as you consider a commercial venture in audio. I do not and therefore the Srajan’s efforts of exposure and marketing are completely irrelevant to me.

Now, take a look what happen. You are manufacture who made a new revision of your speaker. You expose this speaker to a marketing clerk with anticipation that it will be a quality observation of your work. What you get instead besides the Larry King level journalism and Larry Flint level illustrations? In a way the situation not different with many today musical reviews. Read my comment below:

http://classical-scene.com/2010/06/28/thanks/

Anyhow, as in many other case in my cases I would omit the at this point the commentaries about your speakers but juts note the very primitive level of Srajan to talk an about your speaker and about audio generally. Partially I understand Srajan – he writes for idiots and he writes at a level to be understood. Does it mean that Srajan journalism shall not be called idiotic?

Romy the Cat wrote:

Partially I understand Srajan – he writes for idiots and he writes at a level to be understood. Does it mean that Srajan journalism shall not be called idiotic? The Cat

Stitch wrote:

I think, we should change our view for High End.We (the customers, those who pay the bill) are always mad or frustrated about reviewers (Astor, Valin, and son on..) and this discussion was endless, is endless and won't change in future. When we change our view to ourselves, I think, we don't deserve it any better (exception me, because I am one of the good guys), we want to read that. I don't think, the customer wants to read real information how bad the unit is he bought just a few weeks ago ("..I got a good price...") All changed for entertainment and a writer has the most power, because he is in the first row to the manufacturer. The manufacturer needs him for the readers, he needs the manufacturer to write and to get paid for it. When he stays on the consumer side, what would happen?Would they say " thank you, that you wrote that this cartridge is so awful..". Hardly. Consumers can be a real pain. They want all, know nothing and want a good price for it. It is like in the old Rome: "Bred & Games"

Sure, we can convert this thread into another bitching about reviewers but it was not my objective. My objective was to express a frustration about one more missed opportunity that Srajan facilitated. His observation about Grande Castine was the observation about nothing. Srajan converted the subject of audio into “America's Got Talent” TV shows where retardation and compliance with movie “Idiocracy” become a virtue.

What we learn about new Grande Castine? That the people who do it live where good wine is made, that some of them have a wife who love big speakers and that Srajan Ebayn, most likely with his wife made a whole-paid off trip in there. Oh, year, we learned that Srajan made many remarks about audio so uninformed that he clearly demonstrated that he shall not be in a position of public speaking.

Well, Srajan of cause is not the true subject. The true subject is the new Grande Castine and their new LF section. What was told about them? Absolutely nothing valuable! Did you get any impression about sonic capacity of the Grande Castine? Oh, yes! Srajan felt that they were better then ….. Avantgarde Duo! What a fucking revelation!

My point is that in today audio manufactures do not have voice, unfortunately. If they try to develop own manufactures voice then the voice get substituted by sales force voice (BAT, Magico). There is absolutely nothing wrong with an independent person visit a manufactures and post his observations. Srajan went to France to see the Grande Castine makers. The makers took him fishing for 3 days. Srajan honestly described what kind fish he caught and what the temperature of water in that French lake was. The Sound interests and sonic capacity of the Grande Castine went very far outside of the Srajan viewfinder…. From my perspective it is very unfortunate.

Image from http://hornloaded-audio.blogspot.com/2011/02/grande-castine.html