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10-08-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 8470
Reply to: 8470
Dialog with Industry Rain

There were few exchanges in Lamm’s thread with Mike from Audio Federation referred here:

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=8460

http://audiofederation.com/blog/archives/502

The exchanges are nothing specials but I do feel that Mike’s views are very emblematic, not even as much as his view as my relation to those views. So decided to comment on it but I am taking it away from the Lamm’s thread.

 Mike wrote:
I thought I needed to clarify with everyone, just in case they are the wondering type, that we do NOT agree with Romy’s opinion on some things, namely that everything out there sounds bad. In particular, we think that a few things actually sound pretty darn good and we really enjoy listening to music on them. These are the things we talk about on the blog and demo to people visiting our home and at show exhibits.

Hm, I do not think that I even called anybody under the flags of my agreement or disagreement.  The way how the thing sound is not a tradable commodity for me, so you are fitting with wind-mils. I am not in the business of wrapping opinions into UPS deliverable goods…. Also I do not feel that you are in position to put words in my mouth. I did not say the “everything out there sounds bad” it is the way you have figured out correlating what I feel do not sound good and what you have available for sale. If whatever you sell is your horizon about Sound Quietly then you are severally too unqualified.

 Mike wrote:
Romy’s problem is that he creates all these cities [Platonic Ideals] in his head, and then compares real live available speakers and components to this ideal. It is not even clear that this ideal would be an ideal any of the rest of us would even like - and he has not communicated very much about this ideal, which is a shame because this is where he might be able to contribute something of real significance to Audiophiledom.

I am sure that it is not clear for you where “ideal” would be. I think without out having this understanding one condemned for good to pressure for nothingness. I would also disagree that Mike’s and mine realization of “audio significance” has a lot in common.

 Mike wrote:
At Audio Federation we seek for ourselves, and help other people find, the best available REAL WORLD solutions using the best audio reproduction equipment available today.

Well, here is where Mike plagiarized me shame on you for hijacking the idea that you do not fully understand. I do audio for myself and do not give a damn about others. I know another hand-full people who do the same. Mike from Audio Federation, as well as any other industry person does audio FOR OTHER – this is of the greatest reasons why I discard the audio values of those people.  Let remove the money component from entire audio involvement. Then rev-read what Mike said.

 Mike wrote:
  Not recognizing differences between Marten and Kharma, about which every visitor can tell you about who has been here - not understanding the advantages and disadvantages of different approaches to vibration control - making general statements about Emm Labs [have to wonder that perhaps personal enmity is getting in the way of being able to hear what they do?] and the Supremes and on and on… leads me to think that, Platonic Ideal is fine and all that - but there needs to be some grounding in reality, in the Real World, and it just doesn’t make good sense to compare things to the Best CD Player Imaginable, or the Most Faithful Speakers Imaginable.

Are they the beneficial differences of they are the fictional differences. I do not say that differences do not exist. I say that they are irrelevant in context of True Audio Resulets. Also, I do not think that Mike might aphesis those pretended differences as the subject of his awareness. Mile, as any other trader, was given an annual set of tradable differences, sort of talking point about the differences and Mike proudly vending them. So, do you want me to engage you in describing the deference between Marten and Kharma or between EMM Labs 10 years ago and nowadays? How “ready” are you? BTW, there is no personal enmity in any of my audio-specific comments.

 Mike wrote:
But it is this grounding in reality which gives us our real advantage. We get to live with the state-of-the-art, day in day out.

Is it a bumper-sticker of it is some kind of secretive Masonic sigh to make Mike Framer to jalousie?

 Mike wrote:
Yeah, we have our own Platonic Ideal about how things should really sound. Who doesn’t?

OK, above is something why I decided to reply. Mike, and anyone else who plugged in audio sales. Stop bullshitting yourself and others – you have no own Platonic Ideals and no own exposable thoughts about how the things should really sound. Stop it. So not shame yourself. We are all adults and if you insist to confirm this bogusness then people with scrutiny would stop to see you are hostages of ceremony and start to identify you as idiots who deserve own unawareness. You sell audio, you move boxes nothing else. It is not a bad thing to do. Be happy with it as you have a lot of toys to play. But please do not pose yourself as an executive of any Platonic Sonic Ideal. You are FedEx Guy who delivers a box. If the box contains isotope then you are not the person with whom the recipient of the box would discuss the fine aspects of nuclear fusion…

 Mike wrote:
But most of us just don’t get so angry that we start attacking people….

I have no idea where you all fond me “angry”… You would be very much surprised to know the truth….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-08-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
serenechaos
lost alamos
Posts 86
Joined on 12-01-2007

Post #: 2
Post ID: 8472
Reply to: 8470
The point of it all
 Romy the Cat wrote:

There were few exchanges in Lamm’s thread with Mike from Audio Federation referred here:

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=8460

http://audiofederation.com/blog/archives/502 
...

 Mike wrote:
Yeah, we have our own Platonic Ideal about how things should really sound. Who doesn’t?

OK, above is something why I decided to reply. Mike, and anyone else who plugged in audio sales. Stop bullshitting yourself and others – you have no own Platonic Ideals and no own exposable thoughts about how the things should really sound. Stop it. So not shame yourself. We are all adults and if you insist to confirm this bogusness then people with scrutiny would stop to see you are hostages of ceremony and start to identify you as idiots who deserve own unawareness. You sell audio, you move boxes nothing else. It is not a bad thing to do. Be happy with it as you have a lot of toys to play. But please do not pose yourself as an executive of any Platonic Sonic Ideal. You are FedEx Guy who delivers a box. If the box contains isotope then you are not the person with whom the recipient of the box would discuss the fine aspects of nuclear fusion…

The Cat

I was going to reply in Lamms thread, but it really belongs here. 
I'll be going to RMAF this weekend, to hear what's out there.   
The whole carnival atmosphere can be a turn-off though, and make it difficult to just listen to what's there, & not be overcome by the advertising...

This puts it in perspective. 
10-08-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 498
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 3
Post ID: 8474
Reply to: 8472
What IS out there?
Yes, it is true that the salesmen are there to sell what is available. It seems Mike admits that nothing comes even close to the Platonic ideals to which he refers, but he tries to find his customers the best of what is available. It seems to me that what is available now is much worse than what was available 20 years ago for some reason.

I went listen to these speakers at Sound by Singer the last time I was in Manhattan earlier this year. Honestly, it sounded very much like a combination of nails on a chalkboard and a cat stuck in a narrowly open window. I had to get up to leave the audition room where the salesman had left me to listen after less than a minute as I could not take any more.

I still think going to shows and shops is a good idea because it puts it in perspective what is meant by "good" in the audio reviews has nothing to do with any form of audio that I enjoy, so I am not tempted by glowing reviews.

Adrian
10-09-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 8478
Reply to: 8470
In his dedication to Boris Godunov....
Modest Mussorgsky said: “I regard the people as one great being, inspired by one idea. This is my problems. I strove to solve it in this opera.”


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 1 of 1 (4 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Disregard the industry participants. ..  There is no conflict: Commercial vs. DIY...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     6  44851  04-17-2005
  »  New  The “theories” about the audio industry…...  Ah, Gramophone?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     27  112006  08-30-2005
  »  New  Audiotism: cable elevators for 9/11..  Audiotism: cable elevators for 9/11...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  14257  12-24-2006
  »  New  Audio and Politic: a solution?..  A waste of perfectly good bullets...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1  14134  07-16-2007
  »  New  Music reviews are written in a manner…..  Music reviews are written in a manner…...  Playback Listening  Forum     0  7801  10-31-2008
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