| Search | Login/Register
   Home » Musical Discussions » Furtwangler War Years Recording (6 posts, 1 page)
  Print Thread | 1st Post |  
Page 1 of 1 (6 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Beethoven IX and Fürtwängler..  Holy Crap! (Music and Arts transfer)...  Musical Discussions  Forum     2  17892  08-11-2007
  »  New  Ode to joy..  The angels must have smiled down upon them......  Musical Discussions  Forum     1  15547  08-23-2009
02-14-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
blackmore
Posts 2
Joined on 02-13-2007

Post #: 1
Post ID: 3733
Reply to: 3733
Furtwangler War Years Recording
An acquaintance told me of a Furtwangler recording of Beethoven's 5th or 9th during the war that has Allied bombing audible in the background. Is this urban myth or does this recording exist.  I've glanced at the war years recordings, but none seem to match.  Either too early in the war, or in a location that doesn't seem right.  Any ideas?
02-14-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 3734
Reply to: 3733
Furtwangler and the “foreign noises”.

Blackmore,

Yes, I head people telling those stories, I heard most of Furtwangler’s war time recordings and I can not recall any bombing sound or sound of sirens. However, to tell you honestly I do not specifically looked for them as I do not really feel it important. Perhaps form historical perspective the fact might be worthy but musically it would be absolutely irrelevant, at least to me.

You see the “foreign noises” that might place accidentally during life-performances might be “interesting” if the musicians “allow” it to be. For instance I head a recording of Michelangeli performance when thunder stroke above the performance hall and musicians actually included that thunder init the performance by changing the music “in fly”.

However, the distant sound of bombings… I do not know it would be influential enough, not to mention that in 40s there was a lot of noise in recordings and I presume that you need to look for those sounds in order to recognize them as the sound of bombings. I personally do not feel that that this search would be necessary to begin with….

Still, If you are interested in it then there are details about the Furtwangler’s discography, here is one that I usealy use:

http://my.dreamwiz.com/fischer/Furtwangler/furtwangler-discography.htm

You might find perhaps what you are looking for. Also in the following thread:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=765

there is a link to a very good Peter Guttmann’s article about the Furtwangler and the War that you might find worth to read. I think Furtwangler left much more interesting things for us than juts to use his music as a background for the sounds of the Allied bombings.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-14-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
blackmore
Posts 2
Joined on 02-13-2007

Post #: 3
Post ID: 3735
Reply to: 3734
Furtwangler
Thanks for the reply.  The story seems to imply that the orchestra played with an increased sense of despair or anxiety.  But extraneous noises are just that.  Not worth looking for unless they add something to the performance.  My brass quintet was performing in a church and the entire building creaked from a minor earthquake.  We looked at the audience and all chuckled, then went on with the concert.  Don't know if we performed differently.  I'll check out the Guttmann article.  Thanks again.
02-14-2007 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 3736
Reply to: 3735
The “mystery” of the Furtwangler’s tempo is resolved.
Sure, those, “events” around musical performance have HUGE affect to the musicians and I in fact LOVE to collect stories about them. What could be more “interesting” from a perspective of “anxiety” then for instance the Tanglewood performance of Shostakovich 5th in 1975 when a conductor and the orchestra a few minutes before the opening of the symphony received a telegram informing them about the Shostakovich’s death? Or for instance the London’s performances of Czech’s Dvorák's cello concerto by Rostropovich given him as a protest right after the Soviet tanks occupated Prague in August 1968… I love those stories and do collect those performances but I feel the beside having just historic meaning they should have also some musical merits. In fact it would be fun to listen the Furtwangler’s recordings and to see if the Furtwangler’s orchestra start to play faster after the bombing or sirens took place :-)

BTW, leaving jokes aside…. There are some technical aspect how it possible to increase the “despair and anxiety” of good performances. I do not know if you “do audio” but if you do then all that you would need a large sealed enclosure with bass driver of near 15Hz free air resonance, an amplifier that might drive a lot of current and a lot of power and a room with reverberation time of longer then 0.7sec at 60Hz. Set your LF section on the low frequency transitions with a mart of approximately +12dB at 8Hz and then play your wartime recordings. It would be irrelevant if it would be Furtwangler’s Bethhoven,  Eduard van Beinum’s Bruckner or the  Hans Hotter’s Lieder. That ultra LF access will do some very interesting anxiety effect. I used this effect quite aggressively in my own playback.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-15-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Gregm
Greece
Posts 91
Joined on 02-16-2005

Post #: 5
Post ID: 3744
Reply to: 3736
Another anxiety story -- Rother or in fact Furtwangler??

There is a live recording (in stereo) of Beet 5th piano with Gieseking/Rother/Greater Orch of the 3rd Reich. The concert took place in 1944 and, allegedly, Hitler was present. The conductor is reported as Rother -- but there's a rumour (urban legend?) that in fact it was Furt.

But speaking of Furt's tempi, there are two interesting performances of the 9th each with its own "anxiety inspiring" tempo: one live Berlin in 1942, and another in Stockholm in 1943.

I hadn't until now noticed bombs or gunfire in Berlin -- but will try Romy's trick (as far as I can apply it...) for extra anxiety effect.

I love these "situationally significant" musical testaments.

Finally, among many such recordings, there is an interesting Beet violin concerto with Mitropoulos/NYP/Heifetz recorded live in 1956 (I think -maybe '54). At certain moments it sounds like a "triangular confrontation" concerto: violin vs. conductor vs. orchestra. I have listened to the original LP and the result is captivating; the reissues, some of which I have, are flat by comparison.

02-15-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 3750
Reply to: 3744
It was not me stepping on my Cat — it was Heifetz...

 Gregm wrote:
There is a live recording (in stereo) of Beet 5th piano with Gieseking/Rother/Greater Orch of the 3rd Reich. The concert took place in 1944 and, allegedly, Hitler was present. The conductor is reported as Rother -- but there's a rumour (urban legend?) that in fact it was Furt.

“That same year the Magnetophon was used to make the first stereophonic tape recordings, including a performance of Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 5 with pianist Walter Gieseking and the Berlin Reichsender Orchestra conducted by Artur Rother. This remarkable performance was later issued by Varese Sarabande.”

The Artur Rother is a legitimate conductor; I have some of his recordings. Here is his full discography:

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/2891/rother-dis.htm

Still the “urban legend” about Rother/Furt substitution sounds a little fishy. Yes, it is common that some of the musicians and conductors, because of the different reasons, would like do not have own name associated with a specific publicly available recording. They usually invented some kind of fictitious name and print it on a record. The very same Heifetz that you mentioned had for instance a few “second names” that he insisted to print instead of his. However, I never thought that one musician insist that his performance should be attributed to other actual (none fictional) musician. At least I never head about it. If it were true then it would be very interesting to learn about the resins WHY they decided to do it.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 1 of 1 (6 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Beethoven IX and Fürtwängler..  Holy Crap! (Music and Arts transfer)...  Musical Discussions  Forum     2  17892  08-11-2007
  »  New  Ode to joy..  The angels must have smiled down upon them......  Musical Discussions  Forum     1  15547  08-23-2009
Home Page  |  Last 24Hours  | Search  |  SiteMap  | Questions or Problems | Copyright Note
The content of all messages within the Forums Copyright © by authors of the posts