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  »  New  The best audio source EVER!..  Norway to close FM by 2017...  Off Air Audio Forum     34  190274  08-20-2005
  »  New  Where the FM quality comes from?..  Freaking ridicules…...  Off Air Audio Forum     22  126613  11-02-2005
  »  New  The high-end audio, as it should be...  My prediction about it in 2020....  Off Air Audio Forum     3  32421  03-15-2008
  »  New  Is anybody live in Australia with a tuner and an intere..  Use the same volume of signal...  Off Air Audio Forum     19  107033  09-19-2008
10-14-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 2949
Reply to: 2949
“FM live” file exchange service.

It is shame that audio people mostly do not listen FM. If fact if I had a feeling that they do and if I know that they record live broadcasts then it might be possible to facilitate some kind of recording exchange service when “interesting” recordings of broadcast might circle among the participating parties…

Sure, we all have thousands recording of the greatest performance from past. I do not support the moronic believe of some people that great music is not being performed anymore: we juts do not hear to. Tuning to the live broadcast on FM (or perhaps in HD, but I know little about it) give a phenomenal opportunity to be exposed to very interesting, very educational and very mind-expending experiences... Frankly speaking, if I have a dozen participants in few main cultural center around the world, who record the local broadcast then I would grandly give up thousands of my records and CD because live FM delivers very different experience… Try to get it: it will be a new recording today, tomorrow, and then a day after and the next week… we juts do not need to accumulate recordings anymore (I practically stopped to buy CD/LP during the last year). We still could “buy” recordings but strictly for research purpose or to deepening our exposure to the things of interest….

Anyhow, I call anybody who might concern… let to swap. I have been doing rare swapping for years with “my people” but I would like to do it with excitedly FM “live” and “live-to-tape” broadcasts. In the “live” FM is where the Real music lives and… frankly speaking, “live” FM is much more interesting audio-wise… We have today in live broadcast of a memorial Leonard Bernstein concert from Cambridge. I would love to swap it to some kind of broadcast of memorial Toscanini concert off a local Rome FM station or a memorial Barbirolli concert off a local London FM station. Anyhow, if this idea gains some supporters then I would write a simple service to facilitate it.

Rgs,
Romy the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-15-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-16-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 2953
Reply to: 2949
I'd like to participate
in this experience. I agree that FM broadcasts from live performances or live taped performances have the features that make music like nothing else in audio. It's the source I enjoy most and that is more educative for me. I would be happy participating in this sharing of performances, but I'd like to know what are the requisites to do so. If I'm supposed to buy a A/D converter with the same quality level as yours then I'll have to pass.
My local station broadcasts a daily program 2 hour long with live performances taped, they come from all over the World and can range from the Vienna Philharmonic to the Sidney's opera, mostly modern performances from the last 5 years. There's also some local concerts broadcasting and Zarzuelas. From time to time they also program historic concerts recorded live.

Rgrds,

A.
10-15-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 2954
Reply to: 2953
You wouldn’t need anything “special” ...
You would not need any “special” A/D converters, as I did impose any demeaned to “quality”. All you that you need to have a more or less reasonable tuner, a good antenna, strong reception and an ability to write it up at 24/44 or 24/88/ Also it is necessary to have a good taste to recognize which broadcast was worthy…

The Cay


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-15-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-16-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 2955
Reply to: 2954
Of all these things the most critical is the good taste
 Romy the Cat wrote:
You would not need any “special” A/D converters, as I did impose any demeaned to “quality”. All you that you need to have a more or less reasonable tuner, a good antenna, strong reception and an ability to write it up at 24/44 or 24/88/ Also it is necessary to have a good taste to recognize which broadcast was worthy…

The Cay


to share the interesting and worth attention performances, though I think this is the part that most interests me and that can be more educative. Maybe my first selections aren't up to what you can expect and desire, but that can largely improve. What it's sure is that one doesn't know for advanced which broadcast is going to be good, so we'll need to record all them and just share the ones worth attention.

I don't have any A/D converter but the soundcard of my PC which is in another room, and only can record up to 16/44. It's a four years old Creative Audigy. So I'd need some ADC which can be used with a portable with firewire or USB connection. There are some M-Audio devices which are quite inexpensive. A technician friend told me about a device, the M-Audio Microtrak 2496, that can record any choice of bitrate/sampling freq. up to 24/96, and that records on memmory cards (up to 8Gb), so the files can be transferred into the computer easily and has the advantage of battery operation, so little noise and flaws from PS should be expected. He says it has decent quality for this purpose, though not up to pair to Lavry's or Apogee's stuff. You can take a look here: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack2496-main.html

The tuner is a Sansui TU-919 which sounds very good to me in my system. Reception of the above metioned station is between 4 and 5 in its own scale, many days it's full scale. If I'm lucky I could get a TU-X1 in a few weeks.

Let me know your thoughts, if I can participate in this iniciative, I'll be happy to do it.

Regards,

A.
10-15-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 2956
Reply to: 2955
Re: Japan, Australia, UK, Netherlands...
Great, we need one person in Japan, one in Australia, one on UK, one in Italy, one in Netherlands, one on NY and them we could cook something very interesting…

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-15-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Dominic
Montreal, Canada
Posts 69
Joined on 08-23-2006

Post #: 6
Post ID: 2958
Reply to: 2956
i'm down
I'll see what i can hook up
 technologically speaking.
10-16-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 2960
Reply to: 2949
Re: “FM live” file exchange service.
For years and years there have been people collecting (and sometimes disseminating) such performances on tape. I have lists from decades ago!

Internet radio is another source, with orchestras themselves now sometimes providing the material. I have a widebandwidth-downloaded LA Phils concert that sounds pretty damn good, although mostly they won't be like that.

For my own listening I always prefer live music, however badly recorded, to studio work -- heartless and bland, albeit "perfect".

Boston radio stations used to broadcast (besides the BSO live) series by the NY Phils, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee (great little band!), St. Louis, San Francisco and Detroit; those days are mostly gone.

clark
10-17-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 2968
Reply to: 2960
FM in Boston: Thanks God!
Clark, I disagree that those days are “mostly gone”. Certainly I do not know what “used to be” but nowadays we Bostonians are blessed with very good programming. Each Tuesdays and Thursdays WHRB broadcasts “live to tape” performances from Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles and San Francisco (thanks God the WHRB love Michael Tilson Thomas), London and Concertgebouw. Fridays is BSO. Weekends is BSO, BFO, MET, Boston Lyric and whatever else… Do not mention the Orgies and the new releases programs… I think it is plenty to make a person to loose his personal life… I spoke with quite a few people around the world about the FM broadcasts and frankly speaking I feel that Boston in unique FM privileged position…. Thanks God!




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-18-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 9
Post ID: 2970
Reply to: 2968
Re: FM in Boston: Thanks God!
In my travels I have come to the conclusion that Boston has the best (terrestial) radio in the world, both AM and FM.

The only place that can compete, for classical music, is my home town of Sioux City -- where one can receive independent broadcasts from Iowa, Nebraska and South Dakota Public Radio. Forget NYC, forget Seattle and Portland, forget Miami and San Francisco, they used to be good but no longer. (L.A., San Diego -- and Las Vegas! -- are still fine however.)

As for variety music -- jazz, folk, trad country, weird rock -- nothing can beat "the left end of the dial" in Boston, plus WHRB in the middle.

clark

PS Once upon a time Boston had five classical stations!
10-18-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
mats
Chicago
Posts 76
Joined on 09-18-2005

Post #: 10
Post ID: 2971
Reply to: 2970
Re: FM(T) in Chicago
Here is good news for our town:
October 14, 2006 – Lyric Opera of Chicago to return to the radio with live opening–night broadcast of Salome on Saturday, October 21, 7:30 p.m. on 98.7WFMT.

The sound of their live studio broadcast of piano trios Monday night was nothing short of sensational.

I love the idea of trading recordings.  I have a tuner, a Fischer FM 200, but no digital recording set up yet.
Ah, where to start?

Mats
10-19-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 11
Post ID: 2972
Reply to: 2971
WFMT-FM had phenomenal broadcasts ...

Here we go. One more person got hooked on FM and “get” where the real high-end lives… If you live in Chicago then try to develop some connections and get assess to folks who have WFMT-FM sound-check tapes form the WFMT’ past. 20-35 years ago WFMT-FM had phenomenal broadcasts with stunning musical and sonic quality (I have some of them)..

Where to start with recording of FM Broadcasts? You would need a dedicated machine with recording software, a tuner, an antenna and A/D converter. I would not dive into desiccations what converted it might be (we could do it in audio forum) but the definition of success would be you playing your tuner direct to you amps should sound identical to you playing your tuner via A/D-D/A chain.

Rgs,
Romy


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-01-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tokyo john
Narashino, Japan
Posts 32
Joined on 01-31-2006

Post #: 12
Post ID: 3217
Reply to: 2956
did you say one person in Japan?
Well, it just so happens that I am now a proud new owner of a Sansui TU-X1! (but had to pay almost 1000 USD for it...sigh; I seem to find legendary precision machinery like this and Nakamichi Dragon irresistable - rest of my hifi stuff is crap). Not sure how good is the FM classical programs are in Japan, and not sure if I am able to get a good antennae set up in my apartment building, but I am willing to do what I can.
12-01-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 13
Post ID: 3219
Reply to: 3217
Sansui TU-X1 and Japan FM classical scene.

Interpreting, John. When you hook is up can you write up your observations about the sound of this thing, perhaps in a different thread.…  I might, in a few weeks, will be able to add quite a lot of new observations about the Sansui TU-X1. I also no nothing about the FM classical programs are in Japan. Generally Japan has very good reputation for preserving of classical programming. Their CDs are fantastic. Why should they do not do the same with FM….

Rgs,
The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-01-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tokyo john
Narashino, Japan
Posts 32
Joined on 01-31-2006

Post #: 14
Post ID: 3220
Reply to: 3219
classical FM in Japan
 Romy the Cat wrote:

Generally Japan has very good reputation for preserving of classical programming. Their CDs are fantastic. Why should they do not do the same with FM….

Rgs,
The caT

I know! Thanks to some of your tips I have purchased some really nice CDs from HMV Japan. Let's hope NHK does some nice live classical broadcasts for what must be a pretty large classical music fan base! I had to outbid some serious bidders to get the Sansui, so that must be a good sign Smile
09-23-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 15
Post ID: 8364
Reply to: 2949
The intellectual property rights of FM broadcasts.

Following my thoughts from here:

 http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=8358

I was wondering what kind copyright ramifications the idea of file swapping might have, particularly considering the negligible “scale of operation” and that no money involved.  If I record off air a broadcast then do I have rights to barter this recording to other broadcast?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-25-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 16
Post ID: 8379
Reply to: 8364
Barter rights
To the best of my knowledge, what we propose doing (and what others have been doing for decades) strictly speaking is against the law. However, without money changing hands no law enforcement agency is going to touch it (they fear the courts might broaden the citizens' powers) and even were there money involved if the scale is small they still have never (well, almost never) intervened.

Also I believe that files are now regarded the same as cassettes, discs etc.

clark
11-25-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Lwood
Posts 5
Joined on 11-25-2008

Post #: 17
Post ID: 8970
Reply to: 8379
Wish I liked....
fiogf49gjkf0d
....Classical, wasn't exposed to it when young and too many years of lovin' Jazz, the true American art form.

Let me know if you ever want to hear some top notch Jazz from a great station in the Chicago area, WDCB, one of the best
FM signals I've ever heard....it will bring you back to the early 70's when all the stations sounded this good.

L'wood
11-25-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 18
Post ID: 8973
Reply to: 8970
The WFMT in 70's
fiogf49gjkf0d
L'wood, I ma sorry, I have no interest in jazz. Living in Chicago area in 70's you had access to phenomenal programming and quality from WFMT. It is sad that you did not record them then.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-25-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Lwood
Posts 5
Joined on 11-25-2008

Post #: 19
Post ID: 8975
Reply to: 8973
AH, but I didn't live there...
fiogf49gjkf0d
.....in the 70's, not til 83 I moved from DC, which had another great station with a great signal, WHFS (Bethesda, MD actually), but not classical.

There's Jazz that you'd like, you just haven't heard it...same for me and Classical.

L'wood
04-10-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jp
Posts 39
Joined on 02-25-2006

Post #: 20
Post ID: 10200
Reply to: 8364
IP ramifications
fiogf49gjkf0d
So who owns the IP to FM air broadcasts? What are the Ramifications? Either the broadcasting channel or the artist typically owns the IP. No, you cannot record AND distribute. That is not public use or fair use. It doesnt matter that you dont profit from it.  Of course, as mentioned below, they may not come after you, but that depends on how vigilant they are. Certain copyright infringement is now criminal, so you would want to look into that. Since no profit is being made, it depends on the volume and timing of the copying and distributing. 

So to clarify, a friend who specializes in IP stated, "technically, u can't record something that's protected bc that's "copying". but when something's broadcast, you're permitted to copy for personal viewing. It falls under an exception under the copyright laws but no distribution or public viewing, displaying, playing, etc..., of that copy


http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#506U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright Law: Chapter 5Source: www.copyright.govU.S. Copyright Office is an office of public record for copyright registration and deposit of copyright material.
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   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  The best audio source EVER!..  Norway to close FM by 2017...  Off Air Audio Forum     34  190274  08-20-2005
  »  New  Where the FM quality comes from?..  Freaking ridicules…...  Off Air Audio Forum     22  126613  11-02-2005
  »  New  The high-end audio, as it should be...  My prediction about it in 2020....  Off Air Audio Forum     3  32421  03-15-2008
  »  New  Is anybody live in Australia with a tuner and an intere..  Use the same volume of signal...  Off Air Audio Forum     19  107033  09-19-2008
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