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  »  New  Swing hornspeaker of bd-design..  intern of the swing ...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  29946  12-10-2006
08-03-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 19794
Reply to: 19794
BD-Design’s Orelino
fiogf49gjkf0d
I need to say that I do not like the Netherland-based company BD-Design. They do in my view non interesting products and their owner Bert, despite of being a more or less knowledgeable audio fellow have a tendency to patronize incredibly filthy audio scams if it helps him with his business publicity.
Anyhow, recently it comes to me that Bert come up with a new prototype that I personally find interesting. He callers it Orelino: 

BD-Design Orelino 1.jpg


BD-Design Orelino 2.jpg

I think it is a very slick design, compact, attractive and very smart. The configuration of vertically arrayed bass section with phase plug and horny leaves is a brilliant move in my view.  For sure this topology is still juts 2-way-1-horn speaker and will have all limitations and problem of own class. Being made by BD-Design I am sure it will future some kind of horrible BMS compression drivers and equally garbage bass drivers. Still, the low level of aiming does not eliminate the fact of an interesting design idea. I love even the back panel that connects the bass-driver’s magnets.

If Bert will price this new speaker relatively low it might be a very nice product.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-23-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
manisandher
London
Posts 156
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #: 2
Post ID: 21024
Reply to: 19794
BD-Design Orelo speaker
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, I have just taken receipt of my Orelo speakers (pic attached) - the bigger version of the Orelino speakers, with 3x 15" bass drivers per channel as opposed to 3x 12" drivers.
I realize that Romy doesn't regard the coaxial BMS mid/high compression driver very highly. But it performs perfectly OK for me, with my appreciation and taste in music.
Even with only 2 weeks of ownership, it's clearly the best speaker I've ever owned (perhaps not saying much in the company of people who frequent these boards). My goal has always been to recreate through speakers the sound I get from my AKG K-1000 headphones. I don't think I've quite achieved this - the sweetness and colour of the K-1000s isn't present and the sound is slightly greyer in comparison. But the dynamics are all there. And ultimately whenever I've sat and listened to music these last couple of weeks, I've found it a very rewarding experience.
I'm happy to answer any questions should anyone have any.
Mani.

06-23-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 3
Post ID: 21026
Reply to: 21024
X/Os?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Mani, that "loaded OB" is an interesting approach to lower frequencies. IMO, the back waves from good direct drivers are under-appreciated. What do you think of the musical character of the LF you are getting with your system? Is it consistent from the top to the bottom of the LF drivers' range?

What are X/O points and slopes? How do you "equalize" the drivers' output?

Best regards,
Paul S
06-24-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
manisandher
London
Posts 156
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #: 4
Post ID: 21029
Reply to: 21026
Orelo LF performance
fiogf49gjkf0d
Paul, one of the reasons I went for the Orelo was because it's as close to "plug 'n' play" as I can imagine a speaker system being. So I'm not very knowledgeable about its detailed workings. What I do know is this though...
There are 3x 15" bass drivers per channel. Each apparently has a sensitivity of 100dB/W or so. What this equates to in terms of overall sensitivity for the "loaded OB", I have no idea. But certainly, it's going to be way down on the mid/high horn sensitivity of 118dB/W. The speakers are fully active, with 3 amps built into the phase plug. I believe these are SS amps, but I don't know much else about them. The bass amp (actually 2 amps bridged) obviously must have a much higher gain than the mid and high amps. But I think there is also some DSP processing applied to the LF section. Not sure about the x-over points or orders. The designer quotes a THD figure of <3% at 19Hz for a 88dB output. The lower -3dB point is 17Hz I believe.
Right now, I've got a bit of a dip between 40Hz-80Hz, but apparently this might even out as the bass drivers loosen up. Otherwise the sound is pretty seamless top to bottom. And there is no hint of horn honk that I (or anyone else who has been over to take a listen) can detect. Beyond this, I'm not sure what else I can add. Oh perhaps only that you can fill the wings with sand. I've gone ahead and done this - each wing took about 55Kg of totally dry sand - and it was a worthwhile exercise, tightening up the mid-bass considerably.
A couple of interesting features though:
1. You can by-pass internal amps and use the speakers as a 'semi-passive' design. I say semi-passive because I suspect the bass amps will remain in this configuration to equalize the bass output with the mid/high.
2. You can by-pass the internal x-over and feed the speakers with 3x input signal.
2. There are a series of 'Fletcher-Munson' curves built into the speakers, which I'm finding very interesting and worthwhile playing around with.
Mani.

06-24-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 5
Post ID: 21031
Reply to: 21029
Fleshed Out
fiogf49gjkf0d
OK, it makes more sense as you add some details. Meanwhile, I looked online, albeit half-heartedly, but I did not find anything significantly informative on these speakers, even at BD's site. Did I miss something? As you have seen, your proffered pics did not actually register here. I do like the sand idea; very worthwhile if heading down anywhere near 19 Hz. But now I am stuck thinking that if the DSP/LF amps curves are aimed at 19 Hz, and 19 Hz is limited to 88 dB, then an equalized output might also be limited to 88 dB before clipping and/or "unacceptable distortion" from the LF could "potentially" encroach; yet this makes no sense. OTOH, a sensible DSP could easily be programmed to simply throttle back or cut out at the lowest frequencies before distortion became audible. Have you actually run into clipping yet? Of course, there's not much in the way of recorded music that goes down so low; but no info has been given on the "roll-off" characteristics, hence the questions.

As for the DIY "F-M" curves, "tune-able" LF is the BOMB; beats the hell out of soldering up/rebuilding trial/error X/O's when integrating a speaker into a room.

Paul S
06-25-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
manisandher
London
Posts 156
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #: 6
Post ID: 21033
Reply to: 21031
Unacceptable distortion
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Paul S wrote:
But now I am stuck thinking that if the DSP/LF amps curves are aimed at 19 Hz, and 19 Hz is limited to 88 dB, then an equalized output might also be limited to 88 dB before clipping and/or "unacceptable distortion" from the LF could "potentially" encroach...

Paul, the speakers are certainly not limited to 88dB at 19Hz. But the designer(s) cannot guarantee a THD of <3% at 19Hz if the level exceeds 88dB. Now whether you believe >3% THD at 19Hz is unacceptable is another thing. I strongly suspect most speakers are way past 3% THD at 19Hz. For what it's worth, the speakers themselves will play at ear-bleeding levels without any obvious sign of strain anywhere.
If you're so inclined, you can find a lot more information about the speakers here: http://www.phasure.com/index.php?board=24.0
Mani.
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  »  New  Swing hornspeaker of bd-design..  intern of the swing ...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  29946  12-10-2006
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